New Log Type? "update Coordinates"

[+Geofellas]

I just noticed when I went to edit a cache page that there is now a new log type "Update Coordinates". It wasn't there a few hours ago I can't, however, see any rules about how this works (e.g. by how much can you move the coordinates etc.) and a search in the forums on the text string "Update Coordinates" produces no useful hits. Could someone explain the rules please and the behaviour that an entry of this type will generate (e.g. notifications, logs on the web page, return to the reviewer queue??? - I dunno) - this sounds like a useful feature but it would be nice to have some documentation - maybe gimme a URL where this is all laid out perhaps?

 

Thanks

[Jeremy]

It's a new way to make changes to coordinates on your listing. It follows the same rules as making changes to coordinates before - it now just notifies folks that you made these changes. The rule is you can't move it too far from the original location or it asks you to create a new cache listing (since it is essentially a new cache).

[+res2100]

I just noticed the same thing, but instead I got a notification emailed on a cache I am watching entitled "[LOG] Watchlist: iryshe updated the coordinates for Philthy Remains (Traditional Cache)" with the word "test" in the log. Sounds like Jeremy is perhaps testing a new log type.

[+Geofellas]

It's a new way to make changes to coordinates on your listing. It follows the same rules as making changes to coordinates before - it now just notifies folks that you made these changes. The rule is you can't move it too far from the original location or it asks you to create a new cache listing (since it is essentially a new cache).

 

Thanks - that was quick

 

What is "too far"? (or do I need to do trial and error )

Edited March 29, 2006 by Geofellas

[Jeremy]

I just noticed the same thing, but instead I got a notification emailed on a cache I am watching entitled "[LOG] Watchlist: iryshe updated the coordinates for Philthy Remains (Traditional Cache)" with the word "test" in the log. Sounds like Jeremy is perhaps testing a new log type.

 

Heh. Yeah. In fact I *didn't* change the coordinates to that listing because there was an issue in error checking that didn't bother looking to see if someone actually entered in a new waypoint

 

Sorry to confuse you there.

[+CO Admin]

It's a new way to make changes to coordinates on your listing. It follows the same rules as making changes to coordinates before - it now just notifies folks that you made these changes. The rule is you can't move it too far from the original location or it asks you to create a new cache listing (since it is essentially a new cache).

 

Thanks - that was quick

 

What is "too far"? (or do I need to do trial and error )

 

528'

[+Odder]

OK so heres my issue with this...

 

I am hosting an event and placed it with aproximate coordinates. They take people nearby but not to where they need to be. I went and got the exact coordinates today, went to update them and I do not even have the OPTION to change the coordinates. I can ONLY add another waypoint. I am the host of the event and the owner of the listing and I think it is "SILLY" that I can not edit them as need be.

 

Whats the deal?

[+Prime Suspect]

OK so heres my issue with this...

 

I am hosting an event and placed it with aproximate coordinates. They take people nearby but not to where they need to be. I went and got the exact coordinates today, went to update them and I do not even have the OPTION to change the coordinates. I can ONLY add another waypoint. I am the host of the event and the owner of the listing and I think it is "SILLY" that I can not edit them as need be.

 

Whats the deal?

You're apparently clicking the wrong link.

 

Click on Edit Listing, then click modify your cache coordinates via a log entry.

[+Odder]

OK so heres my issue with this...

 

I am hosting an event and placed it with aproximate coordinates. They take people nearby but not to where they need to be. I went and got the exact coordinates today, went to update them and I do not even have the OPTION to change the coordinates. I can ONLY add another waypoint. I am the host of the event and the owner of the listing and I think it is "SILLY" that I can not edit them as need be.

 

Whats the deal?

You're apparently clicking the wrong link.

 

Click on Edit Listing, then click modify your cache coordinates via a log entry.

 

I did do that. I had to pick a log type. The first one was a reviewer note. I just did another one in the form of a regular note. It still looks like it is in the wrong place on the map and the coords at the top of the event page are wrong. Why cant I just change the coords on the top of the page. I dont want to add more waypoints, I just want to change the coordinates to where they need to be. Im not new to this game, I have hosted a pile of events.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Odder

[+VesaK]

What is "too far"? (or do I need to do trial and error )

 

528'

 

What is this magic number? Am I supposed to remember that it's 528, not 582 or 628? Is it some factor related to resolution or error margins in the formula you use in coordinate <-> distance calculation? Why would anyone pick such a random distance as a limit?

[CoyoteRed]

What is this magic number?

 

It's 0.1 miles.

[+dino-irl]

Why cant I just change the coords on the top of the page. I dont want to add more waypoints, I just want to change the coordinates to where they need to be. Im not new to this game, I have hosted a pile of events.

If you could do this then someone could place a cache in a public area, get it approved and then move it to another location that is on private land. The reviewers would have no idea that this had happened.

 

If you want to change the coords then email your reviewer and ask them to change them for you.

 

In the situation you've outlined you should have put the page together and unticked the "Is this cache active?" box. Then you could change anything you want on the page before it went "live".

[+VesaK]

What is this magic number?

 

It's 0.1 miles.

 

Then why is it not called "0.1 miles"? Or if decimal notation is difficult for Americans, call it "tenth of a mile". Is this supposed to be some kind of dying breath of the antique measurement system, some kind of wird revenge to the 10-base thinking people to call it xxx feet?

 

Everyone would understand if it was written "0.1 miles". Most people have an idea how much a mile is, and taking one zero off is quite easy (at least if you're used to metric conversions ). When the distance is written this way, it seems to be made as difficult as possible to the users on other continents.

[+The Cheeseheads]

What is this magic number?

 

It's 0.1 miles.

 

Then why is it not called "0.1 miles"? Or if decimal notation is difficult for Americans, call it "tenth of a mile". Is this supposed to be some kind of dying breath of the antique measurement system, some kind of wird revenge to the 10-base thinking people to call it xxx feet?

 

Everyone would understand if it was written "0.1 miles". Most people have an idea how much a mile is, and taking one zero off is quite easy (at least if you're used to metric conversions ). When the distance is written this way, it seems to be made as difficult as possible to the users on other continents.

Fine... 0.1609344 kilometers. That's much easier to remember...

[CoyoteRed]

Then why is it not called "0.1 miles"?

 

I'm not sure it's called anything. It's just a distance. CO Admin choose to use feet. A tenth of a mile is the same thing. Regardless of what you call it, it's still 528 feet.

 

Additionally, I would think feet is better anyway since it shows that it can be less than 528'. Folks may move a cache 100' in the course of maintenance. They're most likely not going to say, "Please note that I've moved the cache .018939 miles." So, I'd say using feet perfectly acceptible and pretty much preferred to keep everything in the same units.

[+webscouter.]

OK so heres my issue with this...

 

I am hosting an event and placed it with aproximate coordinates. They take people nearby but not to where they need to be. I went and got the exact coordinates today, went to update them and I do not even have the OPTION to change the coordinates. I can ONLY add another waypoint. I am the host of the event and the owner of the listing and I think it is "SILLY" that I can not edit them as need be.

 

Whats the deal?

You're apparently clicking the wrong link.

 

Click on Edit Listing, then click modify your cache coordinates via a log entry.

 

I did do that. I had to pick a log type. The first one was a reviewer note. I just did another one in the form of a regular note. It still looks like it is in the wrong place on the map and the coords at the top of the event page are wrong. Why cant I just change the coords on the top of the page. I dont want to add more waypoints, I just want to change the coordinates to where they need to be. Im not new to this game, I have hosted a pile of events.

 

Click on Log my Visit, this is the same link you select to log a find on a cache. You need to pick the log type of Edit Coordinates. Then in that log click the "has a waypoint" box and fill in the new coordinates. When this log is entered it will change the coordinates.

Edited March 29, 2006 by webscouter.

[+The Cheeseheads]

OK so heres my issue with this...

 

I am hosting an event and placed it with aproximate coordinates. They take people nearby but not to where they need to be. I went and got the exact coordinates today, went to update them and I do not even have the OPTION to change the coordinates. I can ONLY add another waypoint. I am the host of the event and the owner of the listing and I think it is "SILLY" that I can not edit them as need be.

 

Whats the deal?

You're apparently clicking the wrong link.

 

Click on Edit Listing, then click modify your cache coordinates via a log entry.

 

I did do that. I had to pick a log type. The first one was a reviewer note. I just did another one in the form of a regular note. It still looks like it is in the wrong place on the map and the coords at the top of the event page are wrong. Why cant I just change the coords on the top of the page. I dont want to add more waypoints, I just want to change the coordinates to where they need to be. Im not new to this game, I have hosted a pile of events.

 

Click on Log my Visit, this is the same link you select to log a find on a cache. You need to pick the log type of Edit Coordinates. Then in that log click the "has a waypoint" box and fill in the new coordinates. When this log is entered it will change the coordinates.

I think that's the confusing spot. When the "Updated Coordinates" type is selected, there should be some javascript in there to automagically check the "Has Waypoint" box and show the coordinate fields. I would never have guessed it otherwise.

[+tozainamboku]

Fine... 0.1609344 kilometers. That's much easier to remember...

 

First of all it's 160.9344 meters. Secondly that number is exact. Human reviewers would probably accept 161 meters, I don't know if the Change Coordinate log will be this forgiving

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

What is this magic number?

 

It's 0.1 miles.

 

Then why is it not called "0.1 miles"? Or if decimal notation is difficult for Americans, call it "tenth of a mile". Is this supposed to be some kind of dying breath of the antique measurement system, some kind of wird revenge to the 10-base thinking people to call it xxx feet?

 

Everyone would understand if it was written "0.1 miles". Most people have an idea how much a mile is, and taking one zero off is quite easy (at least if you're used to metric conversions ). When the distance is written this way, it seems to be made as difficult as possible to the users on other continents.

Fine... 0.1609344 kilometers. That's much easier to remember...

 

I think part of the reason is that most GPSr's start out saying you are some decimal of a mile to the waypoint, i.e. 0.2 miles, then after 0.1 miles it goes down to feet. I assume that in most other parts of the world it's decimal of a kilometer (i.e. 0.2 km) then after 0.1 km it goes down to meters? (maybe it does it at a higher level since that's only 100 meters, though that's still somewhere between 300 and 350 ft (don't feel like doing big math right now )

[+Prime Suspect]

I think that's the confusing spot. When the "Updated Coordinates" type is selected, there should be some javascript in there to automagically check the "Has Waypoint" box and show the coordinate fields. I would never have guessed it otherwise.

If you access the link from the Edit Cache page, that's exactly what happens. The log type defaults to Update Coordinates. The Add Waypoint box is checked. The current coordinates are used as the default.

 

It's only if you try to do this through the Log Your Visit link that you will have to manually make these settings.

[Jeremy]

What is this magic number?

 

It's 0.1 miles.

 

Then why is it not called "0.1 miles"?

 

It isn't called anything. It's called "Hey. It's probably a good idea not to move the cache coordinates around too far. If you do it's probably a new cache location and, therefore, not the same cache. And it isn't some arbitrary number you use to scoot your cache around either or work around whatever issues you have with the guidelines."

 

So the distance is a reality check for you to consider why you are moving it so far in the first place.

[Jeremy]

 

I think that's the confusing spot. When the "Updated Coordinates" type is selected, there should be some javascript in there to automagically check the "Has Waypoint" box and show the coordinate fields. I would never have guessed it otherwise.

 

We avoided it this version because lots of people turn off JavaScript. But it's a good point that you could force a postback since it wouldn't break anything for those who have it off. I'll see what we can do.

[+Arrow One]

I recently adopted a cache and am having all kinds of issues changing the cords. I moved it to a less muggled area, and have emailed geocaching.com about getting the cords changed. If I have to make a whole new listing, I guess i have to archive the old cache I adopted?

[+Odder]

OK so heres my issue with this...

 

I am hosting an event and placed it with aproximate coordinates. They take people nearby but not to where they need to be. I went and got the exact coordinates today, went to update them and I do not even have the OPTION to change the coordinates. I can ONLY add another waypoint. I am the host of the event and the owner of the listing and I think it is "SILLY" that I can not edit them as need be.

 

Whats the deal?

You're apparently clicking the wrong link.

 

Click on Edit Listing, then click modify your cache coordinates via a log entry.

 

I did do that. I had to pick a log type. The first one was a reviewer note. I just did another one in the form of a regular note. It still looks like it is in the wrong place on the map and the coords at the top of the event page are wrong. Why cant I just change the coords on the top of the page. I dont want to add more waypoints, I just want to change the coordinates to where they need to be. Im not new to this game, I have hosted a pile of events.

 

Click on Log my Visit, this is the same link you select to log a find on a cache. You need to pick the log type of Edit Coordinates. Then in that log click the "has a waypoint" box and fill in the new coordinates. When this log is entered it will change the coordinates.

I think that's the confusing spot. When the "Updated Coordinates" type is selected, there should be some javascript in there to automagically check the "Has Waypoint" box and show the coordinate fields. I would never have guessed it otherwise.

 

For the record Jeremy forgot to include the "edit coordinates" log type to events. There was the problem. I feel much better now. all is well.

[Jeremy]

 

For the record Jeremy forgot to include the "edit coordinates" log type to events. There was the problem. I feel much better now. all is well.

 

Yes. I did forget. Sorry about that.

[+tozainamboku]

 

For the record Jeremy forgot to include the "edit coordinates" log type to events. There was the problem. I feel much better now. all is well.

 

Yes. I did forget. Sorry about that.

 

Thank you for fixing this. I was going to post that the ability to change coordinates might be more important for event caches than other caches. Sometimes there is a last minute change when a restaurant can't accomodate a group. I hope the .1 mile restriction is relaxed somewhat for event caches. It seems that 2 or 3 miles or more might be reasonable.

[Jeremy]

It does make sense, Mr T. I could create a second log type just for event caches that doesn't care about the distance issue.

[+The Leprechauns]

I recently adopted a cache and am having all kinds of issues changing the cords. I moved it to a less muggled area, and have emailed geocaching.com about getting the cords changed. If I have to make a whole new listing, I guess i have to archive the old cache I adopted?

IMHO if you moved the cache more than 528 feet, it's not the same cache. The adopted cache should instead have been archived, then you could hide your own cache. The intent of adoption is to preserve the continuity of an existing cache that needs an active owner who can maintain it. You didn't adopt a park, just a container at a particular location.

 

That being said, you should contact the volunteer cache reviewer for your area with the details of your request. GC.com will refer your inquiry to the local reviewer, so you may as well cut out the interim step.

[Pto]

I had my first opportunity to use the new "update coordinates" log on one of my caches.

 

The updated coordinates were very close to the originals, with the only numbers changing being the last decimals. Example: was 44.98087 Now 44.98094 and was 093.139784 now 093.139815.

Per Easygps, this "moved" the location 20ft at a bearing # - which was correct to get the point "out of the water. (People were reporting the coords wanted them 20ft out in the lake- this update fixed that)

 

So I go in and use the new feature to update the coords. When given the Choice of what format of coords to use, (DMS,MinDec or DegDec) I select DegDec, and proceed to enter the above coords. When finished, I agree to the terms, and submit.

 

The cache page seems to generate everything in MinDec, by default. (Is this true, or am I missing a setting in my controls or something? ) Using the Mindec format, it also rounds everything back to 3 decimals.

 

So my New, updated coordinates generate as 44° 58.856 W 093° 08.389 <==This is what was originally being displayed before the update. Net effect? No Change- Unless the next finders Read The Cache Page (?)- and see where I give the DegDec coordinates- they will continue to tell me my coords put them 20ft out in the water.

 

I also tried edit the cache page itself. Again, I am given the Choice of which format to use= Once again, the page generates in the default MinDec.

 

When I download the gpx file, and open using EasyGps, the coords are in DegDec- but im not sure if that is the software, or the gpx file being sent in degdec because that is how I entered them.

 

Am I missing something here, or does this cause problem for anyone else? If there is a settting I am missing or anything I have overlooked-Please, tell me:)

 

If this is just how it is, that is just fine too!

[+Prime Suspect]

I had my first opportunity to use the new "update coordinates" log on one of my caches.

 

The updated coordinates were very close to the originals, with the only numbers changing being the last decimals. Example: was 44.98087 Now 44.98094 and was 093.139784 now 093.139815.

Per Easygps, this "moved" the location 20ft at a bearing # - which was correct to get the point "out of the water. (People were reporting the coords wanted them 20ft out in the lake- this update fixed that)

 

So I go in and use the new feature to update the coords. When given the Choice of what format of coords to use, (DMS,MinDec or DegDec) I select DegDec, and proceed to enter the above coords. When finished, I agree to the terms, and submit.

 

The cache page seems to generate everything in MinDec, by default. (Is this true, or am I missing a setting in my controls or something? ) Using the Mindec format, it also rounds everything back to 3 decimals.

 

So my New, updated coordinates generate as 44° 58.856 W 093° 08.389 <==This is what was originally being displayed before the update. Net effect? No Change- Unless the next finders Read The Cache Page (?)- and see where I give the DegDec coordinates- they will continue to tell me my coords put them 20ft out in the water.

 

I also tried edit the cache page itself. Again, I am given the Choice of which format to use= Once again, the page generates in the default MinDec.

 

When I download the gpx file, and open using EasyGps, the coords are in DegDec- but im not sure if that is the software, or the gpx file being sent in degdec because that is how I entered them.

 

Am I missing something here, or does this cause problem for anyone else? If there is a settting I am missing or anything I have overlooked-Please, tell me:)

 

If this is just how it is, that is just fine too!

 

The coordinates that you ended up with, 44° 58.856 W 093° 08.389, are correct for the values you entered. Your original coordinates should have been N44 58.852 W093 08.387, based on what you said the decimal degrees were.

 

As for the "rounding", it's irrelevant. It's below the accuracy limits of your GPS.

[Jeremy]

You're confusing precision and accuracy. The accuracy if your GPS receiver is far less than the precision you are attempting. A GPS telling you that your coordinates are off by 20' is normal since it is the combined accuracy of your GPS compared to the GPS being used to navigate back to your coordinates.

 

There was a topic in the past discussing how off two different GPS receivers can be from each other. Someone even had a nifty diagram with overlapping circles to show how the distance can vary.

[Pto]

The coordinates that you ended up with, 44° 58.856 W 093° 08.389, are correct for the values you entered. Your original coordinates should have been N44 58.852 W093 08.387, based on what you said the decimal degrees were.

As for the "rounding", it's irrelevant. It's below the accuracy limits of your GPS.

 

I forgot my printout from before the change at home, so I might be wrong, and the coords did update-

 

You're confusing precision and accuracy. The accuracy if your GPS receiver is far less than the precision you are attempting. A GPS telling you that your coordinates are off by 20' is normal since it is the combined accuracy of your GPS compared to the GPS being used to navigate back to your coordinates.

There was a topic in the past discussing how off two different GPS receivers can be from each other. Someone even had a nifty diagram with overlapping circles to show how the distance can vary.

 

I understand the accuracy and that gps'rs can all act a little differently- which is why I was shooting for precision. (I like decimal places.... ) Using USAphotomaps, and easygps, my new readings did get the point out of the water, moving slightly with the updated coords -so I guess all is well!

 

In the end, I am really just trying to appease the cachers who keep pointing out that "my gpsr says to go 20ft out in the lake.... Im not doing that!-" In the end, the cache is on a point, extending out in a lake. The point is never more than 15ft wide to begin with, and as narrow as 5ft - so common sense should tell a cache seeker that maybe looking somewhere on that point would be prudent.

 

Yesterday, the 9yr old who has only used my gps 1 other time- walked out, stopped next to the cache and said "this goofy thing is telling me to go out in the water.(to his left)...... he then looked to his left, and said - "I bet its right HERE" and reached down and grabbed it.

 

I think future seekers should be fine, since it seems my coords did update- so

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it!

[Jeremy]

The 20' comment is more obvious when you are next to a large body of water. Otherwise most people would just put away their GPS unit and start looking when they zero in on the location. Perhaps a note on the page that says "It's not in the water!" would help. 20' isn't all that far off.

 

Nice to hear that the coordinates did move a bit though.