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Garmin Etrex Legend Cx Is not giving accurate readings

#51 User is offline   romulox 

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:33 PM

Thanks for the info and telling me everything is okay! And I'm sorry for getting the thread off track. I thought I was dealing with apples and apples. Thanks again!

#52 User is offline   Silny Jako Bek 

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:55 PM

I dug up the response I got from Garmin in June:

Thank you for contacting Garmin

I'll be glad to help. GPS units will work differently at times because of
satellite reception. You may have two units next to each other, but it is
not really possible to compare them because they will always be using a
different combination of satellites. Getting within 50 feet of a point is
common, when you add in the decrepancies of error of position. If the point
was marked with 15-25 feet of accuracy and your unit is at about 25 feet of
accuracy at the time there is the possiblity of 50 to 60 feet +/-.
Geocachers should understand that recreational GPS units are not designed to
find a needle in a haystack, they are designed to get you resonably close to
a waypoint, like a campsite, a house ect. Within 50 feet is very effective
in that respect. There will be times that you will get much better, like
down to 10-20 feet, but not always. Just to be safe, be sure your software
is up to date and try a hard reset. This is done with the unit off, press
page plus enter (thumbstick) and then power the unit on like normal. Say yes
to clearing all data. Put it outside for 20 minutes to reacquire. Here is a
link for the software update.

Gee, that was sooooo helpful.....

#53 User is offline   romulox 

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 01:21 PM

Like dope, I was in a hurry and forgot the most important piece of info in my first post that may have made it more relevant to the topic:

When my friend, with a 60cx, and I, with the legend cx, go out looking for the same cache (with the same coordinates), he's always right on and I'm always 20-35' away waving at him. It's embarassing. We've tested with several caches - verifying we're actually goign to the same coordinates. Our sat. accuracies are showing similar results too.

that's it.

#54 User is offline   wrtbch 

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 03:54 PM

I went to The GPS Store with the idea of changing over to Magellan from Garmindue to the bad press in this forum. I had a Legend C and it worked just fine. Referring to the CX in the forume I was concerned about this new model. Well after talking to the rep and looking at the Magellan options(all good except having to recharge the batteries) I decided to go with the Garmin CX. There was a BIG price difference moving up to the 60cx so I had to take my chances. If I should have any problems I will report it in the forum

#55 User is offline   parrothead61348 

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 06:08 PM

Below is my reply that I received from Garmin today. I will try this tomorrow, and post my results. I will take readings before and after a master reset and post my findings..........







Thank you for contacting Garmin International!

I am happy to help you with this. It appears that the unit has gotten some
corrupt data in it so to correct this I would suggest doing a hard reset on
the unit. This will clear out all data in the unit and reset it to factory
defaults and settings. However, you will lose all user information such as
Waypoints, tracks, and routes that you have stored in your unit. If you wish
to save this information before resetting your unit, you can save it to your
computer using a PC interface cable and your Mapsource software.

Following are instructions on how to perform a Master Reset on your unit:

-With the unit turned off, press and hold the follow buttons: PAGE + ENTER,
then press and release the POWER. The unit will power up asking if you want
to release all user data. Select yes and the unit will be reset.

After the master reset please place your unit outside so that it has a clear
view of the sky for 25 to 30 minutes so that the unit can acquire new
almanac data. I would also suggest updating your unit's operating system
using the link below.

http://www.garmin.co...ils.jsp?id=1599

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to
contact us via email or at the number listed below.

Best Regards,
Rick Patterson
Senior Product Support Specialist
Garmin International
1200 E 151 St.
Olathe Ks, 66062
1-800-800-1020
www.garmin.com
Fax 1-913-440-5488
AOL Users please select all text before clicking reply to ensure the
original text is included in your reply.



-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 9:28 PM
To: Garmin Technical Support
Subject: Tech support request for eTrex Venture Cx

Contact Information:
First Name: Dan
Last Name: xxxxxxxx
Address: xxxxxxxxx
City, State, Zip: Oglesby, IL, 61348
Country: United States
Phone: 815.883.xxxx
E-Mail: @insightbb.com
Product: eTrex Venture Cx
Serial Number:
Software Version:

Problem:
I have been using this unit for geocaching for approximatly two months and
it worked great. Yesterday I was doing four Geocaches and when I was using
the GOTO feature it was putting me approx 40-90 feet west of the actual
cache. The laditude seemed to be correct, but the longitude seemed to be
off. Also the pointer seemed to be going in all directions, with no pattern.
I had a good satellite fix all times I tried new alkaline batteries, and
also disable WAAS. That did not make any differance. I also created a
Waypoint in my backyard when I first received the unit. Now when I goto it,
it points 490 ft to the south of the actual point. Is there anyway that I
can check/calibrate the unit. Thanks...Dan

Request emailed to outdoor@garmin.com

-------------------------
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
Thank you for your cooperation

#56 User is offline   Team Kryptos 

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 06:47 PM

We've got a Vista Cx and have had the same accuracy problems from the start. I was so excited to get this GPS and its been pretty disappointing. One day we hit 20 caches and they were ALL off 60 ft+ in the same direction. Datum is correct. Sure made me a better searcher!

#57 User is offline   apersson850 

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:58 AM

It may not have anything to do with the problems described for the various CX models above, but I want to point a few things out anyway. This is old stuff, but perhaps not known by new users.

Accuracy: Note that the accuracy given by the GPS is an estimate. Exactly how it's calculated is Garmins trade secret, but it may be something known as circular Error Probably (CEP). That translates to a figure, which gives you a 50% chance that you are not further away from the reported position than the accuracy says. On the other hand, there's a 50% chance that you are. Triple the accuacy figure and your level of confidence will be above 95%, but still not (never) 100%.

Combined accuracies: Due to the circular characteristics of the accuracy figure, they are not just added, but added in a quadratic manner. With two different accuracies, Acc1 and Acc2, the resultant accuracy, AccR, will be (using Pascal syntax) AccR := sqrt(Acc1*Acc1+Acc2*Acc2). If you know Phytaghoras, well, then here he is again.
So, with the two accuracies 9 and 3 meters, the combined accuracy is not 12, but 9.5 meters.

Follow roads vs. show on road: These are two different things. The CX series are capable of routing along roads (follow roads) or directly to the destination (off road). The old eTrex Vista knows about direct routes (off road) only. But the position, as it's reported by the unit, could be set to lock at the nearest road regardless of whether you are routing along roads, directly to the target or not at all. This is to hide combined inaccuracies in the reported position as well as in the map. If the unit finds out that you are moving parallel to a road, 16 meters south of it, at a certain speed, it will draw the conclusion that you are probably in some sort of vehicle, and then most likely on the road. The unit can't know if the map or the position is wrong, or maybe both, but it doesn't care, it will place the arrow on the road on the map, not beside it. The important thing here is that if it does move the arrow to the road on the map, it will also report the coordinates of your position as if you really were on the road, and this is now where the road is on the map, not necessarily where it really is, on the ground.

Since I don't have any CX in my possession, I have no comments on the problem actually discussed in this thread.

#58 User is offline   GPSSF 

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 09:48 AM

Tried with and without the SD map card. It didn't affect the accuracy of the unit. Seems like everything is offset to the east though by 50-60 feet.

#59 User is offline   Munin 

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 11:40 AM

View Postapersson850, on Aug 19 2006, 10:58 AM, said:

(...) If the unit finds out that you are moving parallel to a road, 16 meters south of it, at a certain speed, it will draw the conclusion that you are probably in some sort of vehicle, and then most likely on the road. The unit can't know if the map or the position is wrong, or maybe both, but it doesn't care, it will place the arrow on the road on the map, not beside it. The important thing here is that if it does move the arrow to the road on the map, it will also report the coordinates of your position as if you really were on the road, and this is now where the road is on the map, not necessarily where it really is, on the ground.

To illustrate what apersson850 is warning about, here's a few tracklogs I made while riding on a mass transit train one day. Riding in one direction (shown in red), I had "Lock on Road" turned on, while on my return trip (shown in green) "Lock on Road" was turned off. I'm not routing to any destination - the auto-routing "On Road" vs "Off Road" options don't apply here - I'm just riding along and having the GPSr record a tracklog. For both examples, I'm on the train so you might think the tracklogs would be reasonably close to the train tracks, but that's only true with "Lock on Road" turned off - otherwise the GPSr map display and the tracklog both claim that I'm over on a nearby road:

Posted Image

As an example of the distance filtering coming into play, here's another section of the tracklog while "Lock on Road" was turned on - initially there's no roads nearby, and the track sticks quite close to the railroad tracks (where I'm truly located). But as the curving road on the left draws closer, my position gets sucked over to the road. A little further along, it finds an even closer road over on the right and hops over to that one, even though it's on the opposite side of the tracks. And a short distance later, a highway becomes the closest road, and the tracklog shows me making a rather daring leap up onto a major highway. Amusing, but not a very accurate reflection of reality.

Posted Image

FWIW, this particular GPSr (a 76CSx) didn't jump from the railroad tracks over to the first road until the road was within approximately 200 ft (60 meters). Like apersson850, I don't have an Etrex Cx, so pretty pictures is about all I can contribute by way of personal experiences.

This post has been edited by Munin: 19 August 2006 - 11:43 AM


#60 User is offline   apersson850 

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 12:50 PM

Very well illustrated. Thank you. Now everyone seeing this will get the point.

#61 User is offline   kasper64 

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:38 AM

I bought my Legend Cx a few weeks ago and I must say I am not very happy with it at all! At times it is right on but more times than not I am walking in circles. I am going to take mine back.

Kasper64

#62 User is offline   GPSSF 

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:11 AM

I spoke with Customer Service who said to send it back to Garmin. Has anyone else sent theirs back to Garmin? Any results? I was hoping that the fix would be a firmware upgrade so that I don't have to do this.

#63 User is offline   Lee-2 

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 02:13 PM

We had to send our Legend Cx back. It wouldn’t turn on.
I mailed it to them on a Thursday and got it back the next week on Friday.
They replaced it. I only had it 2 ˝ months. I’m very happy with the service I got.
We also see very little difference in the readings we get from
our Legend eTrex and our Legend eTrex Cx.

Eagle-2

#64 User is offline   tubemonkey 

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 11:01 PM

I was going to buy the Legend Cx during REI's Labor Day sale ($230 - $50 rebate = $180 final cost), but after reading this thread, I'm no longer going to do so. Pity, because I've been waiting for Gamin to add expandable memory to their units ... and now this problem. And so, I continue to wait for a GPSr with realistic memory capabilities.

I'll drop Gamin a line telling them that they just lost a customer; and I'll link this thread.

#65 User is offline   andrew-4ce 

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 04:58 AM

This is awful! I'm suppose to pick up my new Legend CX on Monday and stumbled across this thread yesterday linked from a motorcycle site. I don't know what to do now... the 60 Series are too expensive for me... The legend cx does everything I wanted and with the rebate it makes it a great deal. I'm buying through a family friend and I don't want to hassle him with returns exchanges complaints if I happen to get a bad one...

I've seached google and can't find any other info on this glitch. Any where else I can keep an eye out for solutions from Garmin?

Hope it's solved through firmware and doesn't require shipping to Garmin.

Dazzed and confussed.

This post has been edited by andrew-4ce: 23 August 2006 - 05:10 AM


#66 User is offline   Silny Jako Bek 

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:27 AM

Over the weekend, I tried my Legend Cx in comparison with my old Magellan SportTrak Pro. The Magellan led me right to the caches, the Cx was always 30-35 feet off (but not necessarily in the same direction). Found 9 caches this way. Who knows how many DNF I would have had if I hadn't brought the Magellan.

And I contacted Garmin again a week ago - still no response. Personally, I haven't been bowled over by the fantastic customer support, but I'm still hopeful.....

#67 User is offline   GPSSF 

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:18 PM

Here's their response to my email:

Thank you for contacting Garmin Product Support.

I am happy to help you with this.

I recommend , verifying the map-setup is set to "lock on road". I also
suggest we auto -locate the device. From the satellite page, press the
menu
button , select new location and automatic. The unit then needs to be
outside in open sky view 20 min un-interrupted.

Beyond that it depends on acquisition ? It matters if you are
matching
someone's predetermined lat/long , is it set the same as their position
format?

It may then prove best to call support if it is still a problem.

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not
hesitate to
contact us via email or at the number listed below.

Please include all previous e-mail correspondence.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxx
Product Support Specialist
Garmin International
1200 E 151st St.
Olathe, KS 66062
Ph: 1-800-800-1020
Fax: 1-913-440-5488
www.Garmin.com

This post has been edited by GPSSF: 23 August 2006 - 07:18 PM


#68 User is offline   andrew-4ce 

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 03:16 AM

So a couple people have received "fix" replies from Garmin now... anyone tried them and had success? Hope it works out for you all.

Andrew

#69 User is offline   romulox 

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 07:56 AM

Yes, I'm interested to know the results as well. I guess I can do them myself but then I miss the "expectation" of waiting! I too am having issues with my legend (as some of you are already aware). Here's a link showing new photographical proof of my legend cx's inaccurate readings compared against my old etrex yellow (go yellow!)

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=2424107

#70 User is offline   Outback2970 

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 02:04 PM

Anyone know if the Vista Cx is having the same trouble? I will trade up if it is not. I am rarely closer than 40-50 feet to a cache or waypoint with my Legend Cx. For all applications except caching it is a great unit at a decent price. I bought mine for Bow Hunting, but have since found out about geocaching. My wife and two kids like caching as much as I do now, and it's a great way to spend time together plus it helps justify the cost a bit when we all get some enjoyment from it year round.

#71 User is offline   parrothead61348 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 03:26 AM

Regarding my previous posts above on my Venture CX. I took readings before and after doing a hard reset, which was suggested by Garmin. My unit had been consistaintly off 30-50 ft east of the actual cache. Before a reset my readings were N XX 18.067, W XX 04.460. After a reset my readings were, N XX 18.068, W XX 04.463. Both readings were done at the exact location, 7-8 sats locked, stabalized for 15 minutes, and WAAS disabled. In theory this should be more accurate then before. I did my same test cache a few days later and found the unit to be a little more accurate. The sky was clear, in dense tree cover, and 17 ft accuracy. However I feel that it took long to update and a very erratic GOTO arrow when standing near the cache. I also saw an improvement when holding the unit upright, screen facing toward you. I plan on doing some more caching this weekend and will post my results.

#72 User is offline   romulox 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 05:40 AM

Hi Guys.... No one has reported back on the success of the 2 "fixes", so I tried them and here's my report for all of you Legend cx owners.

I did both the "reset your unit" with the (page+enter) + power instructions, then I followed that up with the "select new location" instructions.

To make sure my GPSr was in the best possible position to start anew, I placed the unit on the apex of my roof - no steel, no trees, no surrounding buildings - just open sky.

Posted Image


As a side note for anyone just wanting to learn about what happens when units are reset - I don't know what it exactly does internally, but I can tell you what I observered:
1) firmware stayed the same (naturally)
2) All personalization (i.e. day/night mode, lock on road, page sequences, etc...) are reset back to defaults
3) All waypoints are deleted
4) Tracks stored in the unit's internal memory are deleted
5) Things stored on the SD card are not touched.

In any event, the 2 "fixes" ended up, for me, being just like the cable company telling you unplug your modem for 5 minutes - it did nothing that I could notice. IN FACT.... it apprears to have made my problem slightly worse (but I really can't prove that 100%)!

I revisted all of my test points. Historically I've been going back to the same wrong locations, while good old etrex yellow is putting me to shame. Af ter the "fixes", I appear to be longitudinally off by 4 to 6 feet to my original wrong readings from the Legend - and not in a good way; like, I'm being put even farther away from a waypoint!

For me, it feels like my whole problem is that GPSr kind of has me shifted off "center" with respect to longitude. And when I say "center", I don't mean "dead on coordinates"; I mean more like a conceptual mean or average or approximate center. A center that everyone can enjoy.

I'll call Garmin today, see what they have to say.

I don't know if "cross posting" is frowned upon in these forums, but I'm going to post this entry in http://forums.Ground...howtopic=141992 since they're turning into the same thing.

PS: To Sputnik 57 - I'm triple quadrupally sure my datum is set to WGS84

This post has been edited by romulox: 25 August 2006 - 06:33 AM


#73 User is offline   Silny Jako Bek 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:30 AM

The "why would 2 different Garmins have different coordinates" thread is very related to this. Unfortunately, Garmin support uses the different units get info from different satellites line as a way to explain that there is nothing wrong with our Legend Cx units. I contend that this is exactly why something is "wrong" with the Legend Cx. If one can purchase a less expensive Garmin unit and consistently get better results, and the reason is because the Legend Cx acquires information from different satellites, then the Legend Cx has a fundamental flaw if you plan on using it for geocaching. These units should not be marketed for geocaching IMO.

BTW, I too tried the "fixes" suggested by Garmin and they did not improve anything.

#74 User is offline   cachedown 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:08 AM

Hello,
I am a newbie and was concerned about the accuracy of my Etrex Legend CX after my first few finds. However, I have since found it to be extemely accurate. Went caching with a friend who has a Magellen and we were showing almost the exact same coordinates. I'm not sure of the timeline but I upgraded the firmware via garmen.com at one point so maybe that made a difference. In any event, I'm seeing 20-30 feet accuracy at worst.

#75 User is offline   romulox 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:45 AM

Here's where I stand:

When I spoke to support today, the guy said: "I have a Legend and I turn it on and and I get 12' accuracy" I thought he was going to pursuade me to keep my unit, but with almost no effort on my part he gave me the address to send my unit back. They'll give me a "new" one (I'm guessing it will be a refurb that has passed quality control). Whatever - in any event, Garmin support was good to me and took my concern seriously. I was worried I would get the treatment of: "here's another one who wants 6 inch accuracy on waypoints"

Hopefully my new legend will fulfill all of my wishes and dreams.

thanks to everyone for the info

#76 User is offline   DangerJudy 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 02:32 PM

View Postromulox, on Aug 25 2006, 12:45 PM, said:

Here's where I stand:

When I spoke to support today, the guy said: "I have a Legend and I turn it on and and I get 12' accuracy" I thought he was going to pursuade me to keep my unit, but with almost no effort on my part he gave me the address to send my unit back. They'll give me a "new" one (I'm guessing it will be a refurb that has passed quality control). Whatever - in any event, Garmin support was good to me and took my concern seriously. I was worried I would get the treatment of: "here's another one who wants 6 inch accuracy on waypoints"

Hopefully my new legend will fulfill all of my wishes and dreams.

thanks to everyone for the info



Let us know how it goes.

I have severe GPS envy over a 60CSX and really question my decision to buy the Legend CX sometimes. But I will say I used it with CN8 in Vancouver recently and I LOVE CN8, amazing.

#77 User is offline   Jeff&Suli 

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 07:33 PM

:laughing: Doh! I have been away from the forum, and didn't realize this thread had taken off. I had also been trying to call attention to this very problem, which I captured in the thread below WITH VIDEO CLIPS of my Legend Cx trying to put me in a like while my old Legend took me right to the cache.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=137072&hl=



Despite my notes that I was going to follow up with Garmin, this completely fell off my radar the last few months. To be honest, I am close to putting my Legend Cx up on eBay rather than wait for a fix, as it seems like Garmin would have had one by now if it was possible to do with firmware or software. Garmin should be all over this problem, but the response I consistently got by email was that they didn't believe this was an issue, that I was expecting too much accuracy. This is a HUGE disappointment for me, having heard so much always of Garmin's great customer service. :laughing:

SUGGESTION SUGGESTION SUGGESTION SUGGESTION
If you want to continue to call attention to this, in hopes of getting action by Garmin, I have a suggestion. Go to sites like Amazon.com where you can review this unit (or cnet.com, or circuitcity.com, etc.) and write a negative review saying that its not a good unit for geocaching. If word gets out about this to where it might be affecting Garmin's bottom line, well...maybe they'll admit the problem and (!gasp!) address it!

#78 User is offline   ibycus 

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:08 PM

My suggestion is to go out and find a few benchmarks with these faulty units. (ones with adjusted coordinates). Then take a picture with the GPS and the benchmark in it showing the current location, and claim accuracy. This should be enough to show that there is something wrong here.

Right now the reports have too many variables in them, and Garmin can pin the problem on just about anything they darn well feel like, but if you are at a benchmark, and coordinates put you 20m away, and the accuracy says +/- 3m, then guess what? There's a problem.

#79 User is offline   Aloha! & Wahine Eye Spy 

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  Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:59 PM

I currently own a Garmin Map60CS and love it. But with that said, it too has its good and bad days. There have been times that the accuracy hasn't been as good as I hoped and the compass was going nuts with each incremental (inches?) movement but I put that down to general causes (tree canopy, urban setting, overcast skies, near large metal objects (compass), human error/ignorance, and other such phenomenen). Often our plain ol' 8mb b&w Legend shows better accuracy. Still we want to upgrade the Legend but don't want to spend the money of the 60CSx... which lead me to the Legend Cx or Venture Cx.... and this thread.

Being the researcher type, I happened upon this thread just a day before placing my order via REI for a Legend Cx (total cost of $132.33 after sale, rebate & dividend). In a way I'm sorry I came across it -- now I have to continue looking and know I'll be spending a lot more money. Isn't that always the way. Any suggestions now on what to buy for a person that travels alot, loves the autorouting feature and map availability on the 60CS and wants color. Electronic compass and baro altimiter not absolutely necessary. Is the 60CSx really my only (costly) option?

Trivia: CEP (Circular Error Probable) was mentioned early in this thread. A technical definition for this would be "a measure of warhead delivery accuracy defined as the radius of a circle centered on the desired aimpoint within which a weapon has a 50 percent probability of striking." Putting that into geocaching terms -- if you consider the cache as the aimpoint, take your error reading and use that number to draw a circle around the cache that many feet/meters out; you (the weapon) have a 50% chance of being directed to somewhere within that circle. If you look on the bright side, there are worse odds than 50/50! :rolleyes:

#80 User is offline   Neko&Hiiri 

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 05:42 AM

Add us to the list of dissatisfied customers who own a faulty Legend Cx. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that ALL of the Legend Cx's are reporting the SAME problem? We - like others - tried doing a hard-boot - at the airport, in an open field with DGPS signals - and it seemed to make our problem slightly worse, too.

We will be taking Ibycus' advice and checking benchmarks to verify for Garmin that this unit is ****ed, and then giving them a call to inquire what - exactly - they're going to do about it.

I'll post here when that process is complete.

In the meantime - for anyone who is thinking of getting a Legend Cx: DON'T.

-Neko & Hiiri :P

#81 User is offline   GPSlug 

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 07:37 AM

For anyone who is communicating to Garmin about this, you should really avoid saying anything like the error being always the same amount and in the same direction.

GPSr hardware problems don't really do that. They'll just see that as a big red flag that says "wrong settings" and it will be uphill from there.

So unless you have a big pile of data to back it up, leave that part out. Otherwise, it's most likely just coincidence anyway.

#82 User is offline   Aek29 

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 02:10 PM

Well dang, dang, dang!! Just when I thought I had finally finished all my research and came to the conclusion that the Legend CX was the one that best suits me. I then stumble across this board/forum, then this thread and whammo!! Not exactly the kind of first post I wanted to make. :P

I am now at a total loss on what to get until this issue is resolved. A question for you folks that have done the testing......If/when Garmin fixes this issue, do you know if it is just a matter of a flash/software upgrade or do you think it is hardware related?


Aek

This post has been edited by Aek29: 28 August 2006 - 02:12 PM


#83 User is offline   Trucker Lee 

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 02:52 PM

Biggest thing I am seeing on many questions, unit is right out of the box. With my Garmin Summit, when I first started trying to use it (went for a couple benchmarks), the readings and direction pointer gave some oddball stuff such as you are complaining about.

Try this to teach your unit to better read the satallites........ With fully recharged batteries, place the unit on the dash of your car while you do your everyday driving. With a little time and movement, my readings are now getting really close to the mark, as in today I walked right to a cache. The unit justs needs to settle in.

Enjoy! :lol:

#84 User is offline   G-R 

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:02 AM

Sorry to hear about everyones problem with the Legend Cx. I bought one just over a week ago, the day after I discovered this thread and started to get worried that I had made a bad choice. Since purchasing it Ive done 10 caches, 2 of those were DNF, the other 8 I found without any problem. Most of the time the Garmin took me within 8ft of the cache, once it took me more or less right on top of it, and once within 20ft but this was with heavy(ish) tree cover.

Maybe a faulty batch has been produced, so id just like to say that not all of the Legend Cx are faulty, mine is working just as well as my original Etrex.
G-R

#85 User is offline   Coach88 

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 03:22 PM

I'd like to see other Legend Cx users try Truker Lee's solution.

I routinely sit my BW Legend on my dashboard or in it's holder while driving around. On average, with clear view of the sky I usually get approx. 6meter accuracy. When I'm searching for a cache, I try to get a visual fix of where it's pointing when I'm close to 20 metres. As I get closer to the 6 metres, depending on the tree coverage, like others have reported, the arrow will bounce from one direction to the other. But I'm INSIDE that 6 meter range. In my opinion, I'd say that's normal since I don't get WAAS accuracy based on my geographic location at this time. Sometimes, if I don't move around too much It'll tell me I'm 2 -3 metres from the cache. At this point, I don't rely on the arrow. I watch the distance increase or decrease but I know I'm close...

That being said... I too was considering getting a Legend Cx. At this point I might simply get the Legend C instead...

#86 User is offline   Coach88 

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:35 PM

Well I couldn't resist... I bought a legend Cx. I still have my BW legend and I will compare. I found two caches today and I would say that both units perform about the same... Will keep you posted!

#87 User is offline   DangerJudy 

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 06:29 PM

Eh, went out tonight and was standing over a cache while the legend said I was 52 feet away. hmmm. :lol:

I really think Garmin should step up to t he plate and give us a firmware or what-have-you fix.

#88 User is offline   Pigshanks 

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 07:05 PM

Went out this afternoon with my new Legend Cx and it put me on top of the two caches I was hunting for. I have been reading up on this thread AFTER I had purchased the the Cx and had some major concerns, but so far so good.

#89 User is offline   geognerd 

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 08:19 PM

View Postibycus, on Aug 27 2006, 09:08 PM, said:

My suggestion is to go out and find a few benchmarks with these faulty units. (ones with adjusted coordinates). Then take a picture with the GPS and the benchmark in it showing the current location, and claim accuracy. This should be enough to show that there is something wrong here.

Right now the reports have too many variables in them, and Garmin can pin the problem on just about anything they darn well feel like, but if you are at a benchmark, and coordinates put you 20m away, and the accuracy says +/- 3m, then guess what? There's a problem.

Will someone please try ibycus's suggestion? There are lots of references in this thread about being 30-50ft off when standing over a cache, but caches are terrible locations to judge the accuracy of your receiver. First, caches are often in less than prime locations for satellite reception. You have canopy and multipath issues. Second, you're comparing your receiver against the cache hider's, which could be flaky itself. You don't know how long the person averaged the cache coords, or if they did so at all. It's also possible that the cache may have migrated away from the posted coords over the months.

When you compare the coordinates on your GPSr against those for an adjusted benchmark, you're comparing against coordinates that were obtained by professionals using survey-grade GPS equipment and postprocessing. If you tell Garmin that you compared the coordinates on your GPSr against the coords for an adjusted benchmark, that you let the GPSr average for several minutes, and that it showed you being 50ft away from the benchmark, Garmin will have a hard time attributing the problem with the GPSr to operator error.

#90 User is offline   Coach88 

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 01:29 AM

I Know the location of a benchmark that I could check it with. How do I know it's coordinates and if they are adjusted or not?

#91 User is offline   DangerJudy 

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 04:57 AM

Yes! I will do it! It is a good idea.


View Postgeognerd, on Aug 30 2006, 09:19 PM, said:

View Postibycus, on Aug 27 2006, 09:08 PM, said:

My suggestion is to go out and find a few benchmarks with these faulty units. (ones with adjusted coordinates). Then take a picture with the GPS and the benchmark in it showing the current location, and claim accuracy. This should be enough to show that there is something wrong here.

Right now the reports have too many variables in them, and Garmin can pin the problem on just about anything they darn well feel like, but if you are at a benchmark, and coordinates put you 20m away, and the accuracy says +/- 3m, then guess what? There's a problem.

Will someone please try ibycus's suggestion? There are lots of references in this thread about being 30-50ft off when standing over a cache, but caches are terrible locations to judge the accuracy of your receiver. First, caches are often in less than prime locations for satellite reception. You have canopy and multipath issues. Second, you're comparing your receiver against the cache hider's, which could be flaky itself. You don't know how long the person averaged the cache coords, or if they did so at all. It's also possible that the cache may have migrated away from the posted coords over the months.

When you compare the coordinates on your GPSr against those for an adjusted benchmark, you're comparing against coordinates that were obtained by professionals using survey-grade GPS equipment and postprocessing. If you tell Garmin that you compared the coordinates on your GPSr against the coords for an adjusted benchmark, that you let the GPSr average for several minutes, and that it showed you being 50ft away from the benchmark, Garmin will have a hard time attributing the problem with the GPSr to operator error.


#92 User is offline   Pigshanks 

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  Posted 31 August 2006 - 09:07 AM

I found the nearest Benchmark I could find and did a little test.
(Sorry the pics didn't turn out too good)

Posted Image

The GPS on the left is the Legend Cx, and the one on the right is a Legend C. Both were accurate to within 6 metres.

The benchmark coordinates are N50 07.764 W110 53.531
Benchmark

The Legend Cx were N50 07.763 W110 53.533
The Legend C were N50 07.765 W110 53.531

I was a little more than impressed with these finding, but I want to hit a couple of more benchmarks an check.

This post has been edited by Pigshanks: 31 August 2006 - 04:23 PM


#93 User is offline   Pigshanks 

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  Posted 31 August 2006 - 09:08 AM

OOPS!!!!!!!!!!! Double post.

This post has been edited by Pigshanks: 31 August 2006 - 04:16 PM


#94 User is offline   Pigshanks 

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 04:11 PM

I located a couple more benchmarks around Medicine Hat and took some pics.

ASCM 91777 - Medicine Hat N 50° 01.714 W 110° 44.593
ASCM 91777

Legend Cx N 50° 01.714 W 110° 44.599
Legend C N 50° 01.714 W 110° 44.599

Posted Image


#2 GSD 82A522 - Dunmore N 49° 58.592 W 110° 33.062
GSD 82A522

Legend Cx N 49° 58.598 W 110° 33.074
Legend C N 49° 58.594 W 110° 33.066

Posted Image

Another pic of the site(Cap was sealed)

Posted Image

#95 User is offline   Coach88 

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 04:40 PM

How do I know what the coordinates for a benchmark should be?

#96 User is offline   Pigshanks 

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 05:00 PM

View PostCoach88, on Aug 31 2006, 04:40 PM, said:

How do I know what the coordinates for a benchmark should be?



Try looking up your Provincial Surveyors Assc and see if they have a list posted.

#97 User is offline   Silny Jako Bek 

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 06:22 PM

The last benchmark test really shows the problem. Sometimes the Legend Cx is fine. But sometimes (and in my case, more often than not) it is inaccurate. The unit may say it has 6 feet of accuracy, but that doesn't mean it really has 6 foot accuracy.

The bottom line is: If one's GPSr is often much less accurate compared to other models of GPSrs then there must be some flaw in that unit. If many (and not necessarily all) owners of the model in question are having similar issues, then there is a consistant flaw in the model itself, perhaps even a fundemental flaw in the unit's design which Garmin should own up to and either fix or provide compensation.

#98 User is offline   wing-nut 

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 07:27 AM

I have a legend C and pretty happy with its accuracy (even though it consistently gives ground zero about 10 feet to the east). I have a warranty repair return pending due to a non-functionality issue (the rubber banding around the unit is faulty) I am hoping I get the same unit back.

One thing to remember when deciding if a Cx is a "go" or "no go"; the posts you are reading are from people disatisfied and stuck in the forums looking for a solution. I would guess that many of the ones who are happy with their GPSrs are out in the field using theirs. Considering the many units that Garmin must have sold--this is an issue that needs attention, but sadly a lower priority than we expect.

#99 User is offline   TheTenaciousTwo 

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  Posted 02 September 2006 - 07:10 PM

I just bought a Etrex Legend CX from Best Buy recently with the auto navigation kit. I love it, but after updating the firmware in the unit and performing a hard reset. I am still getting bad accuracy and readings around caches. I have yet to call Garmin about this issue. I am sure others have, but I need to find time to call and see if they are going to patch this unit soon. It is absolutely necessary to be able to have accurate readings and to pay this much for the unit, I should expect Garmin to patch it soon. Unless someone has a answer to fixing this problem....

The situation:
We first bought a etrex legend cx from best buy and used it while caching and all was well, accuracy was better than the garmin III we had before. We then used the cig lighter adapter to power the garmin which came with the unit and to much of our luck, the car or the cord shorted out the unit and it never came back on after plugginf it in. Next step was to stand in line and exchange it, we got a new one and a service plan so if it happens again we can replace it. We started to use the new one and found the accuracy was way off when I went caching with some friends, they had a Garmin 60 model with the sirf chip and he was getting 3 feet from the cache and I was way off in the distance 30-50ft away where my etrex legend cx was saying it was. I had eneabled waas and upgraded the firmware on this unit and I didn't lock it to the road when navigating. We even marked points one night with his GPS and mine, but this time we did it in a open parking lot with clear night sky and the accuracy was much better, I was able to get 2 ft from where he marked his points. I don't know why it doesn't give this kind of accuracy when geocaching in some cover or any tree cover. Please help me!!

#100 User is offline   Pigshanks 

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 08:33 PM

In my neck of the woods(Southeast Alberta) the only trees we have have been planted in yards or in the river valley. Caches in the bald a** prairie are no prob, but I have noticed that caches located in the river valley are a little harder to locate as the Legend Cx seems to hace trouble maintaining a lock on the sats. The benchmark pics I posted earlier have all been in the wide open so I'm guessing an antenna/reception problem.

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