Pocket Query Ebook ORDER Is Wrong

October 3, 2006

I have noticed that all my recent Ebook pocket query downloads are listed as "Ordered by distance from origin...." but in reality, they are listed by "Waypoint Name" order. This messes up trying to plan geocache hunts by distances. Are other members experiencing this same difficulty and if so, will they please make their desires known so that whoever is generating these pocket query downloads at Groundspeak will change the system back to the way it was. Thank you. I wrote to Groundspeak, but their reply was that I post my concern here since it affects all geocachers who use pocket query downloads.

9.1k · October 4, 2006

The problem only affects Mobipocket eBook users... a very small percentage of the total users of pocket queries. I recommend switching to CacheMate, Spinner/Plucker or some other alternative, flexible solution for your handheld. There have been many threads where Jeremy has said the eBook format is on its way out. I wouldn't expect improvements to that outdated, unsupported format.

October 4, 2006

I have noticed that all my recent Ebook pocket query downloads are listed as "Ordered by distance from origin...." but in reality, they are listed by "Waypoint Name" order. This messes up trying to plan geocache hunts by distances. Are other members experiencing this same difficulty and if so, will they please make their desires known so that whoever is generating these pocket query downloads at Groundspeak will change the system back to the way it was. Thank you. I wrote to Groundspeak, but their reply was that I post my concern here since it affects all geocachers who use pocket query downloads.

I support you 100% Fourteener..I have exactly the same problem..Forget the improvements to e-book, I'd be happy if the system provided "Ordered by distance from origin" on the download files.. I don't think we're talking about any kind of enhancements, just get back to the baseline..

I'm running an old IPAQ 3670 with CE 4.0 and e-book on it and it's been perfect out in the field until this problem emerged..

October 4, 2006

I have noticed that all my recent Ebook pocket query downloads are listed as "Ordered by distance from origin...." but in reality, they are listed by "Waypoint Name" order. This messes up trying to plan geocache hunts by distances. Are other members experiencing this same difficulty and if so, will they please make their desires known so that whoever is generating these pocket query downloads at Groundspeak will change the system back to the way it was. Thank you. I wrote to Groundspeak, but their reply was that I post my concern here since it affects all geocachers who use pocket query downloads.

I support you 100% Fourteener..I have exactly the same problem..Forget the improvements to e-book, I'd be happy if the system provided "Ordered by distance from origin" on the download files.. I don't think we're talking about any kind of enhancements, just get back to the baseline..

I'm running an old IPAQ 3670 with CE 4.0 and e-book on it and it's been perfect out in the field until this problem emerged..

Likewise, my pocket PC worked perfectly with the Ebook query until the last few weeks. What changed to make the "Ordered by distance from origin" show up in "Waypoint order" on our handhelds especially when the Table of Contents states that it is listed by "Order by distance from origin?" How do we get back to that BASELINE and have the queries read as they did a few short weeks ago??? Everything worked perfectly then!!!

7.2k · October 4, 2006

I would highly encourage both of you to look at the alternative formats of either Spinner/Plucker or Cachemate. Mobireader is klunky and troublesome. The third time it crashed on me in the field I switched (a long time ago now). These alternative methods are much more stable, allow for customization and do all of the things you are asking already except sorting from the origin of the PQ. You do get the nearest caches at the bottom of individual cache pages though. If you know the GC number for the origin of you PQ, you can leapfrog from there at least.

October 4, 2006

The problem only affects Mobipocket eBook users... a very small percentage of the total users of pocket queries. I recommend switching to CacheMate, Spinner/Plucker or some other alternative, flexible solution for your handheld. There have been many threads where Jeremy has said the eBook format is on its way out. I wouldn't expect improvements to that outdated, unsupported format.

BUT, the pocket query Ebook downloads worked fine until two or three weeks ago. Something in the system was changed to cause the Order to be by Waypoint name instead of by distance from origin. Who changed what and will they please change it back. Why purchase something when Ebook had been working fine. Is this the change perhaps somebody's means of forcing people to purchase CacheMate, Spinner/Plucker, or something else. I prefer free whenever possible. Ebook worked fine until a few weeks ago. Something was changed by somebody who controls the pocket query generation program. WHY?

October 4, 2006

Yes okay, eBook is free. But I use Cachemate, it is 8 dollars. Now 8 dollars does not mean much to me, but after currency conversion it worked out at £4.46 sterling. That is the price of two large beers. I can assure you that I have had far more than two beers worth of entertainment from cachemate and geocaching!!

It hardly costs anything, just go for cachemate!

October 5, 2006

Yes okay, eBook is free. But I use Cachemate, it is 8 dollars. Now 8 dollars does not mean much to me, but after currency conversion it worked out at £4.46 sterling. That is the price of two large beers. I can assure you that I have had far more than two beers worth of entertainment from cachemate and geocaching!!

It hardly costs anything, just go for cachemate!

I'm curious. Do any of the pocket query generation PROGRAM PEOPLE ever check this forum, and if so, do they ever help on these types of problems? The pocket query Ebook generation downloads worked perfectly until a few weeks ago. Something about the generation program was changed. The eight dollar cost for Cachemate is nothing, BUT I am used to Ebook and have enjoyed using it for a couple of years. Why can't whatever was changed with the programming be corrected to allow the Ebook cache listings to be in the "Order by distance from origin" as stated in the Table of Contents? I guess the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" was ignored in this situation because somebody most certainly "Fixed it" and now, you can rest assured, "it is now most definitely BROKE!!!"

9.1k · October 5, 2006

Yes, the programmers check this forum. Typically we hear from Jeremy or Raine if it's a new idea they've never seen before, or if they have an update on an old problem, or if they're introducing a new feature and responding to bug reports. But if there are 25 threads on why micros should be a separate cache type, the community has learned not to expect a personal response from Jeremy in all 25 threads.

Groundspeak representatives will also post when regular "forum answer people" get it wrong, or aren't aware of some new development that they now are willing to share publicly. I don't mind being corrected and it's happened many times. (Lep: "I can state confidently that there will never be an off-topic section in the Groundspeak Forums.")

But if the "forum answer people" are doing an adequate job of giving answers and referencing prior discussions, like this example, why should Jeremy take time out of his day to say "yeah, what they said." I would rather that he stay chained to his desk until the new cache quality filter feature is fully programmed and tested.

October 5, 2006

Yes, the programmers check this forum. Typically we hear from Jeremy or Raine if it's a new idea they've never seen before, or if they have an update on an old problem, or if they're introducing a new feature and responding to bug reports. But if there are 25 threads on why micros should be a separate cache type, the community has learned not to expect a personal response from Jeremy in all 25 threads.

Groundspeak representatives will also post when regular "forum answer people" get it wrong, or aren't aware of some new development that they now are willing to share publicly. I don't mind being corrected and it's happened many times. (Lep: "I can state confidently that there will never be an off-topic section in the Groundspeak Forums.")

But if the "forum answer people" are doing an adequate job of giving answers and referencing prior discussions, like this example, why should Jeremy take time out of his day to say "yeah, what they said." I would rather that he stay chained to his desk until the new cache quality filter feature is fully programmed and tested.

I just noticed.....It is not just the pocket query Ebook order listed from point of origin that has been changed, it is all downloads, even the GPS, are now "order listed by Waypoint name." Check it out when you first open your EasyGPS program....the waypoints are listed in Waypoint name order. This has occurred ever since the "New Look" has been given to Geocaching.com. The section on the pocket query generation form where it asks for "From Point of Origin" is completely ignored except for generating the waypoints which the program then lists in "Waypoint name" order instead of in "from point of Origin" as it used to generate. Whereas the Waypoints used to be delivered in the order checked off on the form, they are now being delivered in Waypoint name. That is why the Ebook listing on my pocket PC is listed in the order of Waypoint name instead of from point of Origin. I certainly do hope that one of the programmers corrects the program that generates the downloads.

9.1k · October 5, 2006

Since GPX files are sortable in dozens of ways by GSAK, Watcher, Cachemate, Plucker and other software, there is nothing to "correct" IMHO. The only users who notice a difference are Mobipocket users.

A number of changes were made to the pocket query generator, in order to make it run more efficiently. Remember all the threads about PQ's being late or never running at all? The site took action to change how the queries run and get delivered. I don't understand it, but I do know that my queries now run like clockwork. I open them and sort them however I want. I would not want a broken, unsupported legacy application like Mobipocket to hold back improvements in site performance.

There was talk about having query results delivered that are formatted for the Palm version of Acrobat Reader. That is current, supported software. I wonder where that project stands. It could provide an alternative for current Mobipocket users.

October 5, 2006

Since GPX files are sortable in dozens of ways by GSAK, Watcher, Cachemate, Plucker and other software, there is nothing to "correct" IMHO. The only users who notice a difference are Mobipocket users.

A number of changes were made to the pocket query generator, in order to make it run more efficiently. Remember all the threads about PQ's being late or never running at all? The site took action to change how the queries run and get delivered. I don't understand it, but I do know that my queries now run like clockwork. I open them and sort them however I want. I would not want a broken, unsupported legacy application like Mobipocket to hold back improvements in site performance.

There was talk about having query results delivered that are formatted for the Palm version of Acrobat Reader. That is current, supported software. I wonder where that project stands. It could provide an alternative for current Mobipocket users.

What files does Cachemate use and how do they get loaded into the Cachemate program? The files are automatically loaded into Mobipocket.....is the same true with Cachemate, and will I have to remove Mobipocket from my palm unit? You make using the Cachemate sound easy. Please advise so that I know whether or not to purchase and use that software. Thanks

October 9, 2006

I think what's not being stated here is, some/most of us that use Mobipocket Reader are using BlackBerry's...which is my case. Some of the other programs listed above are not compatible with the BlackBerry. I'd be open to suggestions on which are...and which are recommended (and a suggestion to change to another device is out of the question :anibad: )

I too am irritated that the caches listed are now, not in a user friendly format but require a lot of scrolling ...especially if you have more than a hundred caches listed in your query.

I've tried to search for the "Find" feature as mentioned on the first page. It just ain't there (in the most recent versions at least).

Edited October 9, 2006 by HanSohn

October 9, 2006

I think what's not being stated here is, some/most of us that use Mobipocket Reader are using BlackBerry's...which is my case. Some of the other programs listed above are not compatible with the BlackBerry. I'd be open to suggestions on which are...and which are recommended (and a suggestion to change to another device is out of the question )

I too am irritated that the caches listed are now, not in a user friendly format but require a lot of scrolling ...especially if you have more than a hundred caches listed in your query.

I've tried to search for the "Find" feature as mentioned on the first page. It just ain't there (in the most recent versions at least).

What can we do to get the Groundspeak people to change the Pocket Query Ebook back to the way it used to be and that is in the ORDER OF DISTANCE FROM ORIGIN instead of the current Waypoint Name order? As was suggested earlier by another, I did purchase and download the Cachemate software, but believe me, that software is not nearly as user friendly and easy to operate as was Mobipoicket when the Ebook was delivered in the Order of distance from origin. In fact, the Order by distance from origin would also make the Cachemate software much easier to use by eliminating the need to constantly sort by distance. Why was the Ebook order changed and for what reasons? I guess it will take all of us Mobipocket users to begin requesting the Order be changed back to the way it was for years. It makes no sense to me why the programers changed the ORDER!!!!! I think everybody prefers the ORDER OF DISTANCE FROM ORIGIN because that the order in which most request it, and it is user friendly. Now, the order by Waypoint Name jumps all over the place in terms of distance....from 50 miles to two miles to 36 miles, etc., etc., etc. The order certainly is no longer user friendly. Explain to me why on the request form for a pocket query they ask for the preferred ORDER if that request is ignored and the Order is instead always delivered in Waypoint Name. HELP!

October 9, 2006

The problem only affects Mobipocket eBook users... a very small percentage of the total users of pocket queries. I recommend switching to CacheMate, Spinner/Plucker or some other alternative, flexible solution for your handheld. There have been many threads where Jeremy has said the eBook format is on its way out. I wouldn't expect improvements to that outdated, unsupported format.

Can you point us to one of those threads? I prefer Mobipocket even with the bad sort order. So what if we're a small minority. If it's all the same to Jeremy, choice is always better.

9.1k · October 9, 2006

Can you point us to one of those threads? I prefer Mobipocket even with the bad sort order. So what if we're a small minority. If it's all the same to Jeremy, choice is always better.

Sure, I am happy to search for you. How about this one from a few months ago:

The Mobipocket eBook builder is honestly on its last legs, and for some reason cannot process certain cache listings - as far as we can see. Since the generator works as an unknown black box, and Mobipocket's customer service has been nonexistent, and the fact that they no longer distribute updated versions that we can use to generate eBooks on the fly, it's unsolvable for us.

So what happens when an eBook fails? It is flagged as an error and it goes into a secondary processing queue, where occasionally I turn off eBook generation so you at least get something back. This is what you are seeing when the eBook is missing.

Honestly, the eBook generator was the first thing we created until we adopted GPX, which is a far more flexible tool for geocaching. I would suggest working with the various free applications out there to do what you need. Eventually we'll have to retire the Mobipocket beast since it is so poorly unsupported which makes me kinda sad. However we'll continue to look for new formats which could work as well, like mobile PDFs.

Earlier in the thread I linked to this same post. Maybe quoting it here will have more of an impact.

Edited October 9, 2006 by The Leprechauns

October 10, 2006

Thank you. I'll ignore your snide remarks.

9.1k · October 10, 2006

Thank you. I'll ignore your snide remarks.

Wow. :rolleyes: I was trying to be helpful, not snide. I'll be quiet now.

October 10, 2006

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. I have been so p**sed off with it that I have been printing out caches which kinda defeats the purpose of ebooks. I travelled down to the South of England last week and created a PQ using the in-laws post code as the origin. With everything mixed up I could have been in Timbuktoo for all I knew.

Mobipocket is the only program I can get to work properly on my PPC. I have tried others but although they uploaded OK for some reason the co-ords were wrong.

Edited October 10, 2006 by Ben Nevis

October 10, 2006

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. I have been so p**sed off with it that I have been printing out caches which kinda defeats the purpose of ebooks. I travelled down to the South of England last week and created a PQ using the in-laws post code as the origin. With everything mixed up I could have been in Timbuktoo for all I knew.

Mobipocket is the only program I can get to work properly on my PPC. I have tried others but although they uploaded OK for some reason the co-ords were wrong.

Have you tried Cachemate? It now has support for PPC. For 8 bux you can't beat the price. For more info on Cachemate go to http://www.smittyware.com/

October 10, 2006

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. I have been so p**sed off with it that I have been printing out caches which kinda defeats the purpose of ebooks. I travelled down to the South of England last week and created a PQ using the in-laws post code as the origin. With everything mixed up I could have been in Timbuktoo for all I knew.

Mobipocket is the only program I can get to work properly on my PPC. I have tried others but although they uploaded OK for some reason the co-ords were wrong.

Have you tried Cachemate? It now has support for PPC. For 8 bux you can't beat the price. For more info on Cachemate go to http://www.smittyware.com/

I tried Cachemate, but it requires more effort than did Mobipocket because of the way it has to run and waypoints selected on the PC before exporting it to a handheld. To make matters worse, one must then search each time for the nearest cache because of the pocket queries are now being generated in the order of Waypoint name. With Mobipocket, the way it was downloaded before the screw-up on Order by Waypoint Name instead of Order by distance from Origin like it used to be, one had only to enter the Ebook listing into the handheld and it listed the nearest waypoints without searching. The only time one had to use the "find" feature was if a waypoint farther away was desired. NOPE, Mobipocket is much simpler and requires less effort to use than does Cachemate. Sorry, but I prefer Mobipocket over Cachemate.

October 11, 2006

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. I have been so p**sed off with it that I have been printing out caches which kinda defeats the purpose of ebooks. I travelled down to the South of England last week and created a PQ using the in-laws post code as the origin. With everything mixed up I could have been in Timbuktoo for all I knew.

Mobipocket is the only program I can get to work properly on my PPC. I have tried others but although they uploaded OK for some reason the co-ords were wrong.

Have you tried Cachemate? It now has support for PPC. For 8 bux you can't beat the price. For more info on Cachemate go to http://www.smittyware.com/

I tried Cachemate, but it requires more effort than did Mobipocket because of the way it has to run and waypoints selected on the PC before exporting it to a handheld. To make matters worse, one must then search each time for the nearest cache because of the pocket queries are now being generated in the order of Waypoint name. With Mobipocket, the way it was downloaded before the screw-up on Order by Waypoint Name instead of Order by distance from Origin like it used to be, one had only to enter the Ebook listing into the handheld and it listed the nearest waypoints without searching. The only time one had to use the "find" feature was if a waypoint farther away was desired. NOPE, Mobipocket is much simpler and requires less effort to use than does Cachemate. Sorry, but I prefer Mobipocket over Cachemate.

Interesting technical point...thought I would share this on the forum...

Looking at the unzipped output files in my e-mail msg, specifically the .prc file, I noticed the waypoint sort order is not really in a true ascending sequence sort order.

A true ascending sort sequence contains blanks, special characters, alpha then numeric data in that order. I have numerical data within the waypoint field in front of alpha data suggesting a descending order.

However, here is where it's interesting, there is a ascending sort order occuring within a descending order..

It's a little hard to explain unless you're looking at the output file, specifically the waypoint field. Look at positions three and four within the waypoint field. It's almost like the waypoint field name has been redefined in the program and there is currently a ascending/decending sort conflict occuring writing the output files, both gpx and prc.

Is this just me or are the rest of you getting the same sort results ???

I invite a techie to check this out even though mobipocket is a klunky, unsupported, unwieldly piece of software. View this bug as a challenge. If the problem can be resolved, it would definitely make a few folks happy based on the previous posts..

2.1k · October 11, 2006

I tried Cachemate, but it requires more effort than did Mobipocket because of the way it has to run and waypoints selected on the PC before exporting it to a handheld. To make matters worse, one must then search each time for the nearest cache because of the pocket queries are now being generated in the order of Waypoint name. With Mobipocket, the way it was downloaded before the screw-up on Order by Waypoint Name instead of Order by distance from Origin like it used to be, one had only to enter the Ebook listing into the handheld and it listed the nearest waypoints without searching. The only time one had to use the "find" feature was if a waypoint farther away was desired. NOPE, Mobipocket is much simpler and requires less effort to use than does Cachemate. Sorry, but I prefer Mobipocket over Cachemate.

Yes, I agree MB is far easier to use as it is a static doument. I started off using the ebook format as I was an avid Ebooker, and I was very used to MB. I found it too restrictive in the field after a few trips out though, due to it's static nature. I agree that this sort order should be fixed, I can't imagine how cumbersome it must be now it was already very inflexible.

Some notes though: most people use Cachemate in conjuction with GSAK, which makes installation of the waypoints to the PDA a breeze. GSAK acts great as a "central" database of your caches, enabling you to order them how you want.

Cachemate will allow you to sort cache lists from multiple origins...use "nearest search" as you move around grabbing caches. Wonderful thing.

For the Blackberry users, is there not an offline html reader available? Such as Plucker? GSAK can export to a great user-friendly set of html files that allows you to search caches by multiple orgins.

Edited October 11, 2006 by Maingray

October 11, 2006

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. I have been so p**sed off with it that I have been printing out caches which kinda defeats the purpose of ebooks. I travelled down to the South of England last week and created a PQ using the in-laws post code as the origin. With everything mixed up I could have been in Timbuktoo for all I knew.

Mobipocket is the only program I can get to work properly on my PPC. I have tried others but although they uploaded OK for some reason the co-ords were wrong.

Have you tried Cachemate? It now has support for PPC. For 8 bux you can't beat the price. For more info on Cachemate go to http://www.smittyware.com/

I tried Cachemate, but it requires more effort than did Mobipocket because of the way it has to run and waypoints selected on the PC before exporting it to a handheld. To make matters worse, one must then search each time for the nearest cache because of the pocket queries are now being generated in the order of Waypoint name. With Mobipocket, the way it was downloaded before the screw-up on Order by Waypoint Name instead of Order by distance from Origin like it used to be, one had only to enter the Ebook listing into the handheld and it listed the nearest waypoints without searching. The only time one had to use the "find" feature was if a waypoint farther away was desired. NOPE, Mobipocket is much simpler and requires less effort to use than does Cachemate. Sorry, but I prefer Mobipocket over Cachemate.

Interesting technical point...thought I would share this on the forum...

Looking at the unzipped output files in my e-mail msg, specifically the .prc file, I noticed the waypoint sort order is not really in a true ascending sequence sort order.

A true ascending sort sequence contains blanks, special characters, alpha then numeric data in that order. I have numerical data within the waypoint field in front of alpha data suggesting a descending order.

However, here is where it's interesting, there is a ascending sort order occuring within a descending order..

It's a little hard to explain unless you're looking at the output file, specifically the waypoint field. Look at positions three and four within the waypoint field. It's almost like the waypoint field name has been redefined in the program and there is currently a ascending/decending sort conflict occuring writing the output files, both gpx and prc.

Is this just me or are the rest of you getting the same sort results ???

I invite a techie to check this out even though mobipocket is a klunky, unsupported, unwieldly piece of software. View this bug as a challenge. If the problem can be resolved, it would definitely make a few folks happy based on the previous posts..

Thanks for your support, and I certainly hope that one of the techies accepts the challenge you pointed out and returns the program to the way it used to generate the Order by Distance From Origin. Thanks again. It definitely would make some of us very happy.

9.4k · October 11, 2006

An error was discovered in sort and it has been fixed as of 4:15pm Pacific. Thanks for notifying us of the issue. Future pocket queries in Mobipocket should sort fine from here on out.

October 12, 2006

An error was discovered in sort and it has been fixed as of 4:15pm Pacific. Thanks for notifying us of the issue. Future pocket queries in Mobipocket should sort fine from here on out.

Jeremy, thank you. I just ran a new pocket query this morning and the order was exactly as requested. Thanks a million. I am glad that somebody cares. You have made using my pocket PC fun again. Keep up the terrific work.

October 12, 2006

An error was discovered in sort and it has been fixed as of 4:15pm Pacific. Thanks for notifying us of the issue. Future pocket queries in Mobipocket should sort fine from here on out.

Jeremy, thank you for taking the time and fixing the Mobi sort problem... Ran a PQ this morning and it looks great..I can now load my IPAQ again and hit the field..I'm sure you've made some folks very happy.. !!

October 14, 2006

An error was discovered in sort and it has been fixed as of 4:15pm Pacific. Thanks for notifying us of the issue. Future pocket queries in Mobipocket should sort fine from here on out.

I just downloaded a couple of Pocket Queries and was elated to find them in the correct order! Ahhhhhhhhh.....Thank you, Groundspeak gods!

Pocket Query Ebook ORDER Is Wrong

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