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Eneloop vs Powerex Batteries

#1 User is offline   dumketu 

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 09:59 PM

I use my Garmin GPSmap 60CSX all the time and am constantly on the search for the best batteries for it. I had started using Energizer rechargables, but that was a disaster. Right out of the charger they did well, but more than a few days on the shelf and they lasted less than 3 hours. On recommendations in this forum I then bought the MAHA Powerex 2700s and have been very happy with them - good shelf life and run for a very long time. Then I saw people here recommending the Sanyo eneloop 2000s so decided to give them a try. Also a good battery with very respectable run-time. Out of curiosity, I decided to test the batteries. Here are the results:

Powerex 2700 straight out of the charger - lasted 22hours, 13 Minutes
Powerex 2700 after sitting on the shelf for a month - lasted 18 hours, 15 minutes
eneloop 2000 straight out of the charger - lasted 17 hours, 53 minutes
eneloop 2000 after sitting on the shelf for a month - lasted 15 hours, 7 minutes

(this was done in Normal GPS mode, WAAS off and compass on, although the unit was vertical most of the time so the compass was probably disabled automatically.)

As you can see, the Powerex beats the eneloop, both have respectible times both off the shelf and out of the charger. As far as I can tell, the only real difference is that the eneloop is only 2000 mAh and the Powerex is 2700 mAh. If Sanyo makes a 2700 mAh eneloop, it will give powerex a run for its money.

Either way, both are good batteries and the advantage of the eneloop is that you can find them in most stores, I have only been able to get Powerex through mail order.

Brian

P.S. In addition to Energizers, I have also tried Duracell and Sony rechargables, with similar results to the energizers.

#2 User is offline   kb9nvh 

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:04 AM

I agree on the powerEX's. They are gerat. Also, energizers from walmart so suck. Not all batteries are created equal and the mainstream rechargeables suck as far as I can tell.

View Postdumketu, on Apr 14 2007, 09:59 PM, said:

I use my Garmin GPSmap 60CSX all the time and am constantly on the search for the best batteries for it. I had started using Energizer rechargables, but that was a disaster. Right out of the charger they did well, but more than a few days on the shelf and they lasted less than 3 hours. On recommendations in this forum I then bought the MAHA Powerex 2700s and have been very happy with them - good shelf life and run for a very long time. Then I saw people here recommending the Sanyo eneloop 2000s so decided to give them a try. Also a good battery with very respectable run-time. Out of curiosity, I decided to test the batteries. Here are the results:

Powerex 2700 straight out of the charger - lasted 22hours, 13 Minutes
Powerex 2700 after sitting on the shelf for a month - lasted 18 hours, 15 minutes
eneloop 2000 straight out of the charger - lasted 17 hours, 53 minutes
eneloop 2000 after sitting on the shelf for a month - lasted 15 hours, 7 minutes

(this was done in Normal GPS mode, WAAS off and compass on, although the unit was vertical most of the time so the compass was probably disabled automatically.)

As you can see, the Powerex beats the eneloop, both have respectible times both off the shelf and out of the charger. As far as I can tell, the only real difference is that the eneloop is only 2000 mAh and the Powerex is 2700 mAh. If Sanyo makes a 2700 mAh eneloop, it will give powerex a run for its money.

Either way, both are good batteries and the advantage of the eneloop is that you can find them in most stores, I have only been able to get Powerex through mail order.

Brian

P.S. In addition to Energizers, I have also tried Duracell and Sony rechargables, with similar results to the energizers.


#3 User is offline   david.travis 

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:38 AM

View Postkb9nvh, on Apr 15 2007, 03:04 AM, said:

I agree on the powerEX's. They are gerat. Also, energizers from walmart so suck. Not all batteries are created equal and the mainstream rechargeables suck as far as I can tell.

View Postdumketu, on Apr 14 2007, 09:59 PM, said:

I use my Garmin GPSmap 60CSX all the time and am constantly on the search for the best batteries for it. I had started using Energizer rechargables, but that was a disaster. Right out of the charger they did well, but more than a few days on the shelf and they lasted less than 3 hours. On recommendations in this forum I then bought the MAHA Powerex 2700s and have been very happy with them - good shelf life and run for a very long time. Then I saw people here recommending the Sanyo eneloop 2000s so decided to give them a try. Also a good battery with very respectable run-time. Out of curiosity, I decided to test the batteries. Here are the results:

Powerex 2700 straight out of the charger - lasted 22hours, 13 Minutes
Powerex 2700 after sitting on the shelf for a month - lasted 18 hours, 15 minutes
eneloop 2000 straight out of the charger - lasted 17 hours, 53 minutes
eneloop 2000 after sitting on the shelf for a month - lasted 15 hours, 7 minutes

(this was done in Normal GPS mode, WAAS off and compass on, although the unit was vertical most of the time so the compass was probably disabled automatically.)

As you can see, the Powerex beats the eneloop, both have respectible times both off the shelf and out of the charger. As far as I can tell, the only real difference is that the eneloop is only 2000 mAh and the Powerex is 2700 mAh. If Sanyo makes a 2700 mAh eneloop, it will give powerex a run for its money.

Either way, both are good batteries and the advantage of the eneloop is that you can find them in most stores, I have only been able to get Powerex through mail order.

Brian

P.S. In addition to Energizers, I have also tried Duracell and Sony rechargables, with similar results to the energizers.



Agree with the assessment on the Energizers. Had terrible experiences with them. I know use the Sanyo 2700 mah NiMH and keep the eneloops as backup...

#4 User is offline   JoenSue 

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 07:43 AM

Does it matter what charger you use? I have the charger that came with the energizers.

TX

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:07 AM

I recently got Rayovac Hybrid batteries, similar in technology to Eneloops. The Rayovacs are rated 2100. I have been using them in my camera, and I agree with the review that they work better in high drain devices such as cameras. The higher voltage curve is the key and they show noticeably higher voltage during use than standard NiMH. They perform better than any standard NiMH that I have used including some recent 2700s.

For cameras, these are the best choice. For GPS use, they are a good choice for backup and for units that are not used regularly. Over time you will do less charging with these.

eneloop review

#6 User is offline   david.travis 

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 05:47 PM

View PostJoenSue, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 AM, said:

Does it matter what charger you use? I have the charger that came with the energizers.

TX




I use a Maha smart charger with my NiMH batteries and have been very pleased with it.

#7 User is offline   dumketu 

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:36 PM

View Postdg8200, on Apr 16 2007, 07:47 AM, said:

View PostJoenSue, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 AM, said:

Does it matter what charger you use? I have the charger that came with the energizers.

TX




I use a Maha smart charger with my NiMH batteries and have been very pleased with it.


I also use the MAHA charger now. I used to use the energizer charger and with the Powerex batteries I get slightly better performance out of the MAHA charger. Surprisingly, the energizers performed much better with the MAHA charger, but still not good enough.

Brian

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:51 PM

View Postdg8200, on Apr 15 2007, 07:47 PM, said:

View PostJoenSue, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 AM, said:

Does it matter what charger you use? I have the charger that came with the energizers.

TX




I use a Maha smart charger with my NiMH batteries and have been very pleased with it.

Ditto on the Maha charger. Never had much of a problem with any rechargable that I've used.
Panasonic, Powerex, Eveready, Duracell. Thus far I like the Eveready the best. But it's comparing 1600mah with 2500mah so it's not truly fair.

#9 User is offline   EScout 

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 08:31 PM

Have had for 3 years the Maha MH-C401FS charger. This charges from one to four AA or AAAs individually. Has AC and Car adapters, Fast and Slow settings. I recommend it.

#10 User is offline   peproue 

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 08:31 AM

Has anybody tried a Lithium-ion CR-V3 rechargable in a 60CSx? Just wondering if one would work using the Lithium-ion setting for batteries in setup?

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:26 AM

View Postpeproue, on Apr 16 2007, 10:31 AM, said:

Has anybody tried a Lithium-ion CR-V3 rechargable in a 60CSx? Just wondering if one would work using the Lithium-ion setting for batteries in setup?


Lithium rechargables are 3V. Not the 1.5V (give or take) of AA's. That would complicate their use.

Even in flaslights that take 3V batteries the use of rechargeable batteries can cause problems in that quite a few lights use the built in internal resistance of a regualar battery to limit the power draw of the electronics. A rechargable can fry the electronics unless there were designed to accomodate them.

Looking at this thing. If it fit it may be a direct swap for some 2 AA combo's since 2 AA's in series is 3V. That a GPS can use NiMH's would mean they should be able to use the Lithium Ion.

Worth a look, and worth it's own thread so people can figure out and post which GPSs this battery fits in.

This post has been edited by Renegade Knight: 16 April 2007 - 10:28 AM


#12 User is offline   RRLover 

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:06 PM

NIMH/NiCad batteries are 1.2 volts versus the Lithium-Ion batteries 3.7 volts . . . . BIG difference, if substituting 50%/100% there'd still be an voltage issue, just like the SureFire flashlights, something could get fried ("Donnnn't let the smoke out, keep the smoke in there")!
Many of the rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries have internal regulation circuitry, and if two batteries
in series don't have the EXACT same charge voltage they can shut themselves down, then have to be
recycled through the charger to reset themselves. That's what I suspect was happening w/ the
eXplorists that would shut down when chilled. The segments of the battery array inside the sealed
battery unit lost voltage in the cold @ different rates do to poor (or non-existant) QA @ the factory while matching sets. In any case, it's seldom recommended by any manufacturer of products that run on Li/Io cells, the operation of such w/rechargeable Li/Io in series (and probably parallel, although I've never seen that mentioned). As far as parallel goes, we in the GPS market don't have need for that kind of current anyway.

Norm




View PostRenegade Knight, on Apr 16 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

View Postpeproue, on Apr 16 2007, 10:31 AM, said:

Has anybody tried a Lithium-ion CR-V3 rechargable in a 60CSx? Just wondering if one would work using the Lithium-ion setting for batteries in setup?


Lithium rechargables are 3V. Not the 1.5V (give or take) of AA's. That would complicate their use.

Looking at this thing. If it fit it may be a direct swap for some 2 AA combo's since 2 AA's in series is 3V. That a GPS can use NiMH's would mean they should be able to use the Lithium Ion.

Worth a look, and worth it's own thread so people can figure out and post which GPSs this battery fits in.

This post has been edited by RRLover: 16 April 2007 - 04:12 PM


#13 User is offline   media601 

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:10 AM

View PostJoenSue, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 AM, said:

Does it matter what charger you use? I have the charger that came with the energizers.


The hybrids are the same as the standard NIMHs except for a coating that helps them retain charge. You can use any NIMH charger on any other NIMH or hybrid battery.

I was using Powerex 2400s that worked fine, but now I'm using Hybrio 2100 hybrid batteries which seem to hold a charge much better, although I haven't done a scientific test on that.

#14 User is offline   Knight2000 

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:47 PM

I found your post very interesting.

How did you find out the times that the batteries lasted? Is there a timer on the GPS unit?

I found this which seems intereting. Although it appears to be a couple years old.

I recently bought the Rayovac hybrids. They seem fine to me, but i have no idea how they compare to others.

Thank you for sharing what you have found! ;)

#15 User is offline   Knight2000 

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 09:26 PM

View Postknight2000, on Apr 20 2007, 12:47 AM, said:

How did you find out the times that the batteries lasted? Is there a timer on the GPS unit?

Bump :rolleyes:

#16 User is offline   Ellteejak 

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 02:43 AM

Does anyone have links to the best price sources for all these batteries? Yes, some batteries are terrible at keeping charge, but if you can get them at half price, are they still terrible?

I have the Rayovac 1 hour charger, with adapter for using the car cigerette outlet. Have folks experienced problems with a one hour charger, in any context? I am not sure if the chargers mentioned are one hour chargers or not.

#17 User is offline   GOT GPS? 

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 03:19 AM

I had read somewhere, that Eneloops are refridgerated right after manufacture, to reduce the self-discharge of the batteries, but in the stores they are not refridgerated. Conventional NiMH Rechargables would need to be kept in a moistureproof container in the fridge to minimize the self-discarge of the batteries. To this day I still don't have a good container for doing this in the fridge, but I wish I had something. Energizers are just like foods that spoil over time if left out on a countertop somewhere, and when I've left them out too long between uses, they become un-recoverable even in my battery reconditioner, and after a few reconditioning cycles, the Energizers still don't perform I get rid of them. Leaving out the Energizers on a countertop is like leaving the bread out on a warm countertop too. To keep the bread out for a long time you would have to reheat it for a few minutes to kill any mold spores, and to renew the bread, so for this same reason, the Energizers get damaged when sitting out too long, like my Energizers all went bad, that is the older 2500's I had.

#18 User is offline   dumketu 

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 05:00 AM

View Postknight2000, on Apr 20 2007, 10:47 AM, said:

I found your post very interesting.

How did you find out the times that the batteries lasted? Is there a timer on the GPS unit?

I found this which seems intereting. Although it appears to be a couple years old.

I recently bought the Rayovac hybrids. They seem fine to me, but i have no idea how they compare to others.

Thank you for sharing what you have found! :laughing:


The GPS has a data page that shows moving time and stopped time. I just added the two together. Of course I reset it each time I put in a new set of batteries.

The URL you refered to is a good review. I wish they would update it.

I have not tried hybrids in anythign except a camera that came with them. Since they require a different charger, I did not bother after they were used up. They did last quite a while as I recall

Brian

#19 User is offline   dumketu 

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 05:07 AM

View PostEllteejak, on Apr 24 2007, 04:43 PM, said:

Does anyone have links to the best price sources for all these batteries? Yes, some batteries are terrible at keeping charge, but if you can get them at half price, are they still terrible?

I have the Rayovac 1 hour charger, with adapter for using the car cigerette outlet. Have folks experienced problems with a one hour charger, in any context? I am not sure if the chargers mentioned are one hour chargers or not.



Amazon.com. Probably not the best source, but you can get all types there. I bought the MAHA charger direct from MAHA. (google it)

The MAHA charger is a 1 hour charger (about). Supposedly this is the optimum speed to recahrge NiMh from what I have read. Slower, and crystals form that reduce the charge/life of the battery, and too fast and the battery overheats. The MAHA charger also has a conditioining circuit and trickle charge to get that last 2% into the battery.

Bad batteries at half price are still bad batteries. The initial investment in good batteries will pay for itself over time and will give you peace of mind that your camera/GPS/etc. will work when you need it most.

Brian

#20 User is offline   Team_Wilson 

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 03:11 PM

Try Thomas Distributing for batteries and chargers. http://www.thomas-distributing.com
Best source that I have seen.
I purchased a good quality electronic charger from them and have had good luck with the Energizer
batteries. Looking to switch to the ENELOOPS now though.

#21 User is offline   david.travis 

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 04:37 PM

View PostTeam_Wilson, on Apr 24 2007, 03:11 PM, said:

Try Thomas Distributing for batteries and chargers. http://www.thomas-distributing.com
Best source that I have seen.
I purchased a good quality electronic charger from them and have had good luck with the Energizer
batteries. Looking to switch to the ENELOOPS now though.



Yep....I second that recommendation on Thomas Distributing. Have purchased batteries and chargers from them and have been very pleased. Great company to deal with.

#22 User is offline   Knight2000 

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:59 PM

I hate to drag this back up, but i would like to de a benchmark test on AA's of different brands and kinds. My GPS does not have a timer like the OP's did.

Does anyone know how this can be done? Can i buy or build something for this? Thanks!

#23 User is online   Red90 

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 05:05 PM

What GPS?? Most have a trip meter which measures time.

#24 User is offline   Knight2000 

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 05:12 PM

View PostRed90, on May 12 2007, 09:05 PM, said:

What GPS?? Most have a trip meter which measures time.

I dont know. Refer to post #18 above.

Do you mean my GPS? It is a MeriGold.

This post has been edited by knight2000: 12 May 2007 - 05:14 PM


#25 User is online   Red90 

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:22 PM

View Postknight2000, on May 12 2007, 07:12 PM, said:

View PostRed90, on May 12 2007, 09:05 PM, said:

What GPS?? Most have a trip meter which measures time.

I dont know. Refer to post #18 above.

Do you mean my GPS? It is a MeriGold.


Does the trip meter not include time?

#26 User is offline   Knight2000 

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 09:28 PM

View PostRed90, on May 12 2007, 10:22 PM, said:

Does the trip meter not include time?

The only timer the unit shows is when it is motionless and averaging. It does have a trip meter but it only shows miles. (As far as i have found.)

#27 User is offline   zedex 

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 09:51 AM

View Postknight2000, on May 12 2007, 10:28 PM, said:

View PostRed90, on May 12 2007, 10:22 PM, said:

Does the trip meter not include time?

The only timer the unit shows is when it is motionless and averaging. It does have a trip meter but it only shows miles. (As far as i have found.)


I would think your gps will show the on or travel time. While in your motionless or averaging screen go into your menu and see if there are any other time screens available and choose which you want.

FWIW. Eneloops lasted 17 hours on my 60cs with compass off sitting on my coffee table.

This post has been edited by zedex: 13 May 2007 - 01:17 PM


#28 User is offline   Knight2000 

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:55 PM

View Postzedex, on May 13 2007, 01:51 PM, said:

I would think your gps will show the on or travel time. While in your motionless or averaging screen go into your menu and see if there are any other time screens available and choose which you want.

I have checked my manual (several times) and see no option for a timer anywhere. Also checked the GPS and cant find that in any of the info screens/options. :)

#29 User is offline   GOT GPS? 

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 12:18 AM

I am sad to say that Magellan does not want you to have a Trip Timer function on their GPS units, to go with the Trip Distance, so there is no way to know how long a Magellan has been turned on. with any Magellan, except for the really old ones, you have to wear a stopwatch to track how long you been hiking biking or whatever.

I have had many of the Magellans like the eXplorist XL, Meridian Platinum, GPS 315, SporTrak Color, and GPS 4000XL 12-ch. None of these did a good job at all helping you know how long you hiked, and you have to track that function using your wristwatch.

Edit: The best way is to run the Magellan till the batteries die then turn it back on without it being able to see any satellites, while connected to the PC, then Download the Tracklog to the PC. The Tracklog has all the info, like how far it's been, and how long the GPS tracked from the Date and time of the first breadcrumb to the Date and time of the last breadcrumb of the downloaded tracklog. This is the best way to track how each battery does. Also the GPS many use up batteries faster if it has to search harder for satelites, versus being out in open sky, where it does not have to search hard.

This post has been edited by GOT GPS?: 14 May 2007 - 12:23 AM


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Posted 14 May 2007 - 07:58 AM

It would be nice if Magellan gave you trip time. This could be done because the track points hold very accurate time and elevation stamps.

After a hike I load my saved track to SportTracks, which computes your time of the trip, distance, elevation climb and drop, mile pace, and week, month, and year totals. It also puts your track on an aerial photo, and gives you various graphs like elevation and grade. What you get in the Magellan is the track distance, and an elevation profile graph.
(SportTracks needs the log file converted to .gpx which is quickly done in GPSBabel.)

#31 User is offline   Seedillume 

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 08:16 PM

View PostJoenSue, on Apr 15 2007, 08:43 AM, said:

Does it matter what charger you use? I have the charger that came with the energizers.

TX

It sure does. If you use a quick charge all of the time, it will shorten the life of the battery. NiMH batteries are very susceptible to heat. The faster the charge, the more the heat. All rechargable do best with a slow charge of 8 hours. To learn more about batteries, one could visit

View PostGOT GPS?, on Apr 24 2007, 04:19 AM, said:

...Conventional NiMH Rechargables would need to be kept in a moistureproof container in the fridge to minimize the self-discarge of the batteries. To this day I still don't have a good container for doing this in the fridge, but I wish I had something...

Couldn't you use one or two packs of silica in a ziploc bag or airtight tupperware container? That's what I use for my underwater camera housing. They work great. I've never had any condensation.

I use to work in a medical laboratory for years before leaving the filed. We would continuously have in-services on our electronic equipment. Some are battery powered. The reps from the companies would always tell us to use only Duracell batteries. At first, I thought their parent company was Duracell...hehe. When I started asking why, they would tell me Duracell has a more even power flow, especially when powering on the equipment. The energizers build up more engery when not being used. So when we would turn on the equipment, they would have a greater immediate discharge then gradually taper off. The Duracells would have a smaller immediate discharge and would quickly even out. They stated that the discharge could affect the machine and/or the test results.

I doubt that GPSrs are so sensitive as to suffer damage from using Energizers, but it's worth knowing. All of this information is just FYI. To learn more about batteries, one could visit Batteryuniversity.com.

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