How about Palm OS

[+aggiejwp]

i'm still trying to understand this game

[+martinp13]

I'd love to be able to play using my Palm OS Treo and bluetooth GPS. Any chance of a Palm OS client?

[Jeremy]

We're currently determining the next device(s) to focus on. There's definitely a demand in the Palm OS camp but we need to determine the order in which we build on new devices. There's also the iPhone and Google's Android initiative.

[+luckybobb]

Just out of curiosity to play this do I need a pocket pc and Gps that connect to each other????

[Jeremy]

Yes. A GPS Enabled Pocket PC device could be:

 

1. A Pocket PC device with a built-in GPS (like a Mio)

2. A Pocket PC device with Bluetooth and a Bluetooth GPS device

3. A Pocket PC device with a CompactFlash (or some other connected) GPS device

 

The only non-Pocket PC device is the Garmin Colorado (at the moment).

[+TrailGators]

We're currently determining the next device(s) to focus on. There's definitely a demand in the Palm OS camp but we need to determine the order in which we build on new devices. There's also the iPhone and Google's Android initiative.

How about the PSP? Wouldn't that be cool!

[Jeremy]

We're currently determining the next device(s) to focus on. There's definitely a demand in the Palm OS camp but we need to determine the order in which we build on new devices. There's also the iPhone and Google's Android initiative.

How about the PSP? Wouldn't that be cool!

 

Yeah. Or a Nintendo DS would be cool too. This is definitely a new concept for both companies to get a grasp of. But a PSP GPS device is already available so it's just a matter of porting the application*

 

(* ain't rocket science but it takes time)

[+martinp13]

We're currently determining the next device(s) to focus on. There's definitely a demand in the Palm OS camp but we need to determine the order in which we build on new devices. There's also the iPhone and Google's Android initiative.

Hmmmm... Android doesn't exist yet and the iPhone is still locked up.

[+FoxFireX]

Just wanted to add my voice in favor of a PalmOS client. Between TomTom/Garmin software and Cachemate, I've kept myself to the one device for this long, and I'd love to add another trick to its stable. You guys know you've got groups of us out there right now using Palm devices to hunt, why not let us in on this fun too?

[+Red Rose]

YES - Let us proceed with Palm OS development!

So many of us poor schmucks have palm devices - especially since we have many paperless Geocachers amounst us running Cachemate - yes?

 

Happy New Year Jeremy!

Edited January 23, 2008 by Red Rose

[+morsix]

Palm OS Developing Great

Greets,

Rudi

[CoyoteRed]

We're currently determining the next device(s) to focus on. There's definitely a demand in the Palm OS camp but we need to determine the order in which we build on new devices. There's also the iPhone and Google's Android initiative.

Hmmmm... Android doesn't exist yet and the iPhone is still locked up.

And then compare to the already installed user-base of the Palm users...

 

Of course, not all Palm devices are capable of GPS use. That thought, IMHO, would inspire the thought to allow creation of cartridges that doesn't need GPS use. You should be able to create cartridges right now that don't require GPS coordinates to work. The only thing is making the player work without it.

 

"What good would that be?" one may ask. Paperless puzzles. "Go here. Answer this question." You don't need the device sensing where it is in the real world to do this.

 

Add a function to the scripting to allow branching depending on the unit receiving GPS coordinates and you could create a cartridge that does both GPS and GPS-less adventures. Hey, that would help in areas with poor or no GPS signal.

 

Make the player run on older Palm OSes and you'd have a massive user-base. A massive user-base would (should), in turn, translate into a large database of cartridges. That would be even more incentive for new users to play. This sort of vicious cycle is a good thing.

 

Just a thought.

[Ranger Fox]

"Go here. Answer this question." You don't need the device sensing where it is in the real world to do this.

 

Add a function to the scripting to allow branching depending on the unit receiving GPS coordinates and you could create a cartridge that does both GPS and GPS-less adventures. Hey, that would help in areas with poor or no GPS signal.

 

I don't understand what you mean by this. In order for the "go here" message to work, you need a GPS signal. Without it, you can't tell if the user has taken even a single step.

 

What do you mean by "branching"? How would you suggest handling zones with this? In the code, zones have different events depending on a user's distance: distant, proximity, and enter. Supposing a cartridge uses all these events, how would they be handled with your branching suggesting without use of a GPSr?

 

For a puzzle like "4 Minute Hourglass", this would be fine. I don't understand how this could be used effectively with other cartridges.

[+Maingray]

Another vote for a PalmOS port! Lots here chomping at the bit with Palms to have a go at Wherigo...

[CoyoteRed]

"Go here. Answer this question." You don't need the device sensing where it is in the real world to do this.

 

Add a function to the scripting to allow branching depending on the unit receiving GPS coordinates and you could create a cartridge that does both GPS and GPS-less adventures. Hey, that would help in areas with poor or no GPS signal.

I don't understand what you mean by this. In order for the "go here" message to work, you need a GPS signal. Without it, you can't tell if the user has taken even a single step.

It depends on how the cartridge creator wants to handle it. You could have a simple "Go to [coordinates] and when you get there click the OK button." You could then have a question to answer or some other task to perform

 

What do you mean by "branching"? How would you suggest handling zones with this? In the code, zones have different events depending on a user's distance: distant, proximity, and enter. Supposing a cartridge uses all these events, how would they be handled with your branching suggesting without use of a GPSr?

If you could branch depending on whether you had a GPS signal you offer different prompts. For instance, you might need to prompt the user if he has a GPS signal as the unit would know he had arrived. Otherwise, like the above example you might require user input.

 

For a puzzle like "4 Minute Hourglass", this would be fine. I don't understand how this could be used effectively with other cartridges.

It would depend on the cartridge creator. If there is no branch in the programming that allows going GPS-less then that cartridge wouldn't work for someone with no GPS. Conversely, you could write a scenario that didn't need any GPS signal at all.

 

If there were a trigger for losing the GPS signal, especially while inside a zone, then the program could assume that you've arrived at, say, a parking garage and have gone inside. The trigger would send the program to a branch that prompts the user to a certain spot or maybe tells him to go to the upper-most deck.

 

The primary point is having the Wherigo player not be so GPS dependent and when there is a Palm port it would open the hobby to a lot more folks.

[Ranger Fox]

It depends on how the cartridge creator wants to handle it. You could have a simple "Go to [coordinates] and when you get there click the OK button." You could then have a question to answer or some other task to perform

 

Sounds like a multicache. I've seen ones where you hike to a sign and have to answer questions to move on. Some things might be better as a Wherigo cartridge and others as a cache.

 

It would depend on the cartridge creator. If there is no branch in the programming that allows going GPS-less then that cartridge wouldn't work for someone with no GPS. Conversely, you could write a scenario that didn't need any GPS signal at all.

 

If there were a trigger for losing the GPS signal, especially while inside a zone, then the program could assume that you've arrived at, say, a parking garage and have gone inside. The trigger would send the program to a branch that prompts the user to a certain spot or maybe tells him to go to the upper-most deck.

 

Mmm... I don't know. I see where you're getting, though. However, there are nuances about cartridges that make me wonder if this would be possible. For instance, I mentioned certain events that cartridge creators could hook up to zones: distant and proximity in particular. These two are fired as the player gets progressively closer to the zone. Using a GPSr-less method wouldn't provide this. Yes, I can see how the creator could put in a branch where this wouldn't matter, but I think it would cut down on the experience offered.

 

As for the parking deck example, couldn't the cartridge creator put in a proximity message that tells the person to go to the top of the deck upon arrival? I don't think the player will crash if the GPSr loses signal.

 

The primary point is having the Wherigo player not be so GPS dependent

 

I would like to disagree on this. I don't think it would be as fun if Wherigo did not track your current location. If it didn't, Wherigo would be just as useful as a printed sheet for tour guide purposes or the emulator for games. It would be like creating a cache for use without a GPSr--and such a cache won't be published (I know because that was one part of a mystery cache I submitted early last year).

 

However, to point out a contradiction, Groundspeak will add the "play anywhere" feature at a later time. This is location independent, but not GPS independent (as it will still need to track distance and access the coordinates to set up zones). All that would be required to handle your branching suggestion is to allow the player program to operate without a GPS signal (which means you won't be going anywhere). The cartridge would be a series of prompts, then, and that would be a challenge to string together--especially if you wanted to insert something. When the code asks for the current position, a hard-coded value could be provided. After that, it would be all up to the cartridge creator. I still don't think it would be a good idea.

[CoyoteRed]

I still don't think it would be a good idea.

Yes, I agree. Options are never a good idea.

 

Sorry, for the sarcastic answer, but I get tired of there's-only-one-way-to-do-things attitudes some folks have. I'm trying point out that if you allow folks to create Wherigo cartridges that don't rely on GPS in the unit that runs it then you'd have a much larger user base and would be able to grow hobby faster. It's not as if there is no GPS use in the hunt.

 

Granted, with a unit that has GPS input the experience would be richer, but don't shut out folks who don't want to drop a few hundred bucks for the latest gee-whiz equipment, especially considering the environment a lot of geocachers find themselves in. After all, most advocate buying the cheapest PDA for geocaching simply because of the risk. This advise collides with the present requirements of Wherigo equipment.

Edited February 26, 2008 by CoyoteRed

[+Too Tall John]

Make the player run on older Palm OSes and you'd have a massive user-base. A massive user-base would (should), in turn, translate into a large database of cartridges. That would be even more incentive for new users to play. This sort of vicious cycle is a good thing.

 

Just a thought.

I have to agree. I love my GPSr that I got right before Wherigo really hit the scene, and have a (palm-based) Sony PDA that I am very happy with.

 

The only reason I have to change either is to play Wherigo. Seeing as there are no cartridges (other than play anywhere ones) near me, I won't be doing that anytime soon. This means that I won't be developing cartridges, either. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in the same boat.

 

If there were a Palm-based player, I'm actually ready to go. I have an old Handspring Visor and the GPSr module to fit in it. I'm not the only one with the same setup, and if it were an option, it's really easy to go to that auction site and pick up both for under $50.

 

PDA (Link) . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . $24.95

GPSr Mod (Link) . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . $4.99

Shipping . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . + $13.69

Total . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . $43.63

People who have GPSrs with serial-capable GPSr's and PDA's would also be ready to go, as well. Sadly, my GPSr is USB only, so it won't communicate with a PDA anyways. That's ok, 'cuz I have the setup above.

 

The more people able to play, the more cartridges that will be developed, the faster this game will get off the ground, the faster the return on development. The wider your customer base, the bigger the return for you. Why develop players for platforms that are more cost-prohibitive first? Unless you are getting a cut from I-Phone or Google (and a pretty good one at that!), you should go after the devices the majority of your base uses. I'd be surprised to find that users of the iPhone outnumber Palm OS users. I started this thread in the general forums to maybe get a feel for what people use.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Too Tall John

[Jeremy]

Just wanted to add my voice in favor of a PalmOS client. Between TomTom/Garmin software and Cachemate, I've kept myself to the one device for this long, and I'd love to add another trick to its stable. You guys know you've got groups of us out there right now using Palm devices to hunt, why not let us in on this fun too?

 

To help me garner support for the PalmOS, what devices currently support GPS (and more importantly, have ? Or is this an "I have a Palm but would have to buy some kind of GPS attachment thingy" kind of conversation?

 

Handspring may not support Wherigo based on the specs on the device. Interesting idea though to bring back some tools "from the dead." The GPS modules are definitely inferior to the ones you can get today.

[+Maingray]

I have a Palm T|X which has bluetooth, and Wifi. I connect it to a bluetooth GPS with ease.

 

Lots of people have Palm-based cell phones, Treo etc. About the only thing palm got right in recent years.

 

Your problem with palmOS is going to be able to support all the older models that a lot of cachers use which will be typically underpowered. My guess would be you might be restricted to products running Palm OS4 and 5.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Maingray

[+Too Tall John]

Handspring may not support Wherigo based on the specs on the device. Interesting idea though to bring back some tools "from the dead." The GPS modules are definitely inferior to the ones you can get today.

Yeah, the Handsprings are old, and the GPS was considered weak when it first came out, but if the player was able to be built to run on such a platform, there'll be a bunch more possible users. Something to keep in mind. There are a bunch of other brands, including Palm, that have similar modules for more recent PDAs. My beloved Sony Clie even has options for a dedicated GPSr.

To help me garner support for the PalmOS, what devices currently support GPS (and more importantly, have ? Or is this an "I have a Palm but would have to buy some kind of GPS attachment thingy" kind of conversation?

I don't know of any PalmOS devices (maybe some of the phones, like Trio) that come with an integrated GPSr, but I could easily be wrong. As mentioned above, the Palm brand PDAs have GPSr accessories available, as does Sony. I'm sure they aren't the only ones.

 

Of course, there are the Bluetooth PDA/GPSr users.

 

On top of all this, there are many who have written about linking their Palm to their GPSr with serial cables.

 

Basically, there are a whole bunch of options for PalmOS users who might want to get into Wherigo, except for a Wherigo Player. Some users may have these accessories already. (We are, after all, talking about an "entertaining adventure game for gps users," according to the FAQ.) Others, myself included (assuming the Handspring is obsolete), are much more likely to make the smaller investment ($80-150) for an accessory for an existing unit than going out and laying down $300-500 for a new device.

 

Not only would I personally like to see a PalmOS player, I think it'd make good business sense to open the service up to the widest user base possible.

[CoyoteRed]

Others, myself included (assuming the Handspring is obsolete), are much more likely to make the smaller investment ($80-150) for an accessory for an existing unit than going out and laying down $300-500 for a new device.

Agreed.

 

Even if they did have to pay a bit more money, possibly the same as if they purchased a PPC device, what about those who have purchased Palm-based programs? It would make much more sense to purchase a more modern Palm-based device so folks can keep using the software in which they have already invested than have to dump everything and go with all new and different programs. Nor would it make sense to have to have two devices. I know I wouldn't like to use an older Palm for most of my handheld computing while the gee-whiz unit is only used for Wherigo.

 

I upgraded to a Palm T|X and bluetooth GPS so I could use TomTom. It made sense to go with Palm because of cachemate was Palm only at the time and I had purchased iSilo for gathering and reading HTML files. Add to that the free software I had accumulated and the decision was pretty much a no-brainer.

[+Jaz666]

I don't know of any PalmOS devices (maybe some of the phones, like Trio) that come with an integrated GPSr, but I could easily be wrong.

 

The Garmin iQue 3600 is such a device.

[+Too Tall John]

I don't know of any PalmOS devices (maybe some of the phones, like Trio) that come with an integrated GPSr, but I could easily be wrong.

The Garmin iQue 3600 is such a device.

I thought that was a PPC, but I see that I was wrong.

 

See, I was right!

...I could easily be wrong.

[Jeremy]

I don't know of any PalmOS devices (maybe some of the phones, like Trio) that come with an integrated GPSr, but I could easily be wrong.

 

The Garmin iQue 3600 is such a device.

 

Discontinued due to lack of interest, I assume. Thanks for the feedback on Palm. Right now we're trying to improve the engine and make it easier to port. Perhaps after we dot our i's and cross our t's we'll be in a better position to support Palm.

[+slumbersix]

I don't know of any PalmOS devices (maybe some of the phones, like Trio) that come with an integrated GPSr, but I could easily be wrong.

 

The Garmin iQue 3600 is such a device.

 

Discontinued due to lack of interest, I assume. Thanks for the feedback on Palm. Right now we're trying to improve the engine and make it easier to port. Perhaps after we dot our i's and cross our t's we'll be in a better position to support Palm.

 

I have a palm TX and would love to see something that would work on it for the Wherigo stuff. Has bluetooth and a bluetooth gps receiver that would be great to play the game with.

[+anke+chris]

Hi, we are also interessed in an PalmOS SW for playing this game without the need to by a new windows driven device. We use an Palm Tungsten III and a blutooth mice.

 

Greetings Anke and Chris

[+Too Tall John]

I started this thread in the general forums to maybe get a feel for what people use.

...And the counting is done. After over a month, here's the results:

The final tally!

• Palm - 44 (This includes Palm-based cells, ie Treos)
  
• PPC - 21 (including PPC phones)
  
• iPhone - 3
  
• Cellphone - 8
  
• i-pod - 11
  
• Colorado - 5
  
• Other - 3
  

So, for this little sample of users (95 participants) here in the forums, we see that PPC and Colorado users, who have a player for Wherigo, are vastly outnumbered by the rest of the groups together. Palm users alone make up almost half of the respondents.

 

Thank you to all who participated in this little experiment. If it isn't useful to those deciding where to work on developing the next Wherigo platform, it was at least informative to me.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Too Tall John

[+zo kom je nog eens ergens.nl]

count it 45

i'm using my palm (zire 71 with the os5) for a long time. paperless caching with cachemate is more than normal for a palm user

Edited April 7, 2008 by zo kom je nog eens ergens.nl

[+adamsloco]

count it 45

i'm using my palm (zire 71 with the os5) for a long time. paperless caching with cachemate is more than normal for a palm user

 

Actually, make it 46. A little late to the party, but I don't want to buy a new PPC, when I have a perfectly good palm, with cachemate and bluetooth gps.

[+Lil Devil]

Another Treo user here anxiously awaiting a Palm player. I already have the Bluetooth GPS even

[+FoxFireX]

We just had an event to introduce folks to Wherigo here in San Antonio, and of the 25 or so folks who showed up, I'd say around five of them asked about playing on Palm OS devices. You've got a huge audience in waiting here, guys; hopefully you can give them a reason to hold onto hope soon.

[+Panther in the Den]

There has to be many more Palm devices out there than any other device.

 

I would think this would shoot it to the top of the list.

 

Keep up the good work!

[+matcat]

As far as Palm based devices go, they are the most abundant in hand PDAs in existence, mainly because of the cheaper cost of them over Windows and other OS devices. And though very few are still produced with the exception of the Treos, the market was flooded with them. I myself own quite a few Palm based devices, the best one of course the TX. The problem you will find with Palm devices is that most of them out there are going to be underpowered for the structure of the Wherigo player as it stands on the WM devices, however most of that is going to be because of the overhead of WM and .NET itself. The core capabilities of the Wherigo player is very capable of being done for Palm based devices, it would just be a matter of using a C++ API instead of .NET to do it. This means you have to maintain two different code bases. Or you can rewrite the app used on WM devices and not use the .NET system (Get rid of all that overhead anyway), and make it more compatible to have both code bases combined for easy porting. Ultimately WM platform was chosen by Groundspeak more then likely because of the ease of rapid development with .NET, however it is also the most limiting choice for end users as WM devices hold very little market share do to the higher expenses of the devices, ease of use issues, and compatability issues. This is something Groundspeak should of researched on before diving itnto this project to make sure they developed something that would live up to the goals of the company, as well as offer a product that worked for the majority of your customer base, and not just a small fraction of it.

 

I support this project, but I just feel Groundspeak needs to start from scratch and work on a solution that will work for everyone. Ultimately as far as PDA's go, the largest chunk is Palm OS (Atleast Version 4 and higher), WM, and lastly Linux. Plus quite frankly Linux based PDA's are the least, but going to be one of the fastest growing once projects such as Android get out of the initial development phases.

 

Also of neglect here are the millions of Java based phone handsets, probably the single largest piece of the handheld market byfar. But that is an entirely different ballgame.

Edited June 11, 2008 by matcat

[+RAD Dad]

I too think palm should be included. Even older palms can do GPSr. I had a Handspring Visor version 3.x I hooked up my Garmin etrex via serial cable and was able to use mapping programs on the palm.

 

Of course now I have a TX which has the capability of bluetooth GPSr.

 

Still, I think it's sad that this new game essentially leaves out the VAST VAST majority of cachers who use the various handheld GPSr's. Are you getting kickbacks from Microsoft and Garmin to increase sales of their newest gadgets? I mean what other reason could there be to add a new game that would require over half of all current players to run out and buy completely new hardware to play? Sounds kind of gimicky and more like a promo deal for particular hardware companies.

[+sbell111]

Even if many of the palms currently in use could not play the palm version, it would still be a good idea.

 

I would like to play the new game, but I'm unlikely to buy a PPC solely for that purpose. I'm not going to ditch my palm in favor of one because I do lots of other stuff with my palm. However, if there was a palm version of the software, I would definitely consider upgrading my palm to a TX if my older palm wasn't up to speed.

[+Okiebryan]

Sorry to necro an old thread, but I have a Palm Tungsten e2 with bluetooth. I'd happily buy a BT GPS if it wiouod let me play Wherigo. We don't have a single cartridge here in Oklahoma, and I'd like to try making one, I think. I've talked to others here who have no interest if they have to buy a new GPSr to play, but lots of people have palms for paperless caching.

[Ranger Fox]

If Palms can run Java, that'll be the next device on the docket.

 

However, this article disturbs me.

[+Okiebryan]

 

However, this article disturbs me.

 

I won't pretend to understand what all that affects, but I'm certain it can't be good for users. I wonder why that happened?

[+SuprBz]

We're currently determining the next device(s) to focus on. There's definitely a demand in the Palm OS camp but we need to determine the order in which we build on new devices. There's also the iPhone and Google's Android initiative.

Hmmmm... Android doesn't exist yet and the iPhone is still locked up.

 

I put my vote in for Android. Now that it is out and iPhone is still locked up.

[matejcik]

....well, if you can run J2ME (java midlets) on the Palm, then you can already use OpenWIG, see http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=207358

it reportedly works on Palm with the appropriate JVM, but no images are displayed - that seems to be a shortcoming of palm's JVM - or maybe not, i didn't get to investigate it any closer. try and see for yourselves