Open Note to kevtel

[+CondorTrax]

This is an Open Note to kevtel

 

I arrived back home after a day of caching only to see my email inbox full of cache disabled alerts. I was then more surprised to see that all of these were initiated by kevtel who has been one of our more prolific cache placers over the past few month.

 

I don't claim to know the reason or rationale behind the action. From the logs it's evident that there was some perceived friction or negative interpretation of a cachers opinion to one or several of his newly placed caches.

 

As we're all aware, this is a self policing and mutually reinforcing sport/activity. Rarely does one have a chance to reward and critique and at the same time actively participate in the same sport. In that sense when we place a cache we are opening ourselves up to the rest of our community for feedback. If we should place a cache that is enjoyed we are publicly notified; conversely, if we place a cache, for whatever reasons, is not well accepted we are then also given feedback - constructive or otherwise - it's the nature of our sport. In all cases the feedback involves a subjective summary. In most instances, the feedback is constructive and allows the cache owner to evolve and become even more creative and "entertaining" in their future placements.

 

For kevtel to summarily disable all his caches is a very strong action. I openly ask that kevtel take whatever comments may have been made in a constructive manner and not allow whatever may have been implied to keep him from placing caches. As he has suggested, if we don't like them - as with many things - we can elect not to participate.

 

Kevtel, the comments in the logs should be a vehicle for you, moving forward, to make your cache placement even better, stronger and enjoyable for all those who see the "Cache Published" notifications. We have all made mistakes in our caching "careers" and there's no telling what one cacher may say about another's work - that's the risk we take when we place and search.

 

I ask that you re-evaluate your decision and think of the positive aspects of your caches and the enjoyment they have brought rather than focusing on recent logs. I'm sure the rest of our community supports this view and hope you'll reactivate your caches.

Edited March 1, 2009 by CondorTrax

[+weathernowcast]

This is an Open Note to kevtel

 

I arrived back home after a day of caching only to see my email inbox full of cache disabled alerts. I was then more surprised to see that all of these were initiated by kevtel who has been one of our more prolific cache placers over the past few month.

 

I don't claim to know the reason or rationale behind the action. From the logs it's evident that there was some perceived friction or negative interpretation of a cachers opinion to one or several of his newly placed caches.

 

As we're all aware, this is a self policing and mutually reinforcing sport/activity. Rarely does one have a chance to reward and critique and at the same time actively participate in the same sport. In that sense when we place a cache we are opening ourselves up to the rest of our community for feedback. If we should place a cache that is enjoyed we are publicly notified; conversely, if we place a cache, for whatever reasons, is not well accepted we are then also given feedback - constructive or otherwise - it's the nature of our sport. In all cases the feedback involves a subjective summary. In most instances, the feedback is constructive and allows the cache owner to evolve and become even more creative and "entertaining" in their future placements.

 

For kevtel to summarily disable all his caches is a very strong action. I openly ask that kevtel take whatever comments may have been made in a constructive manner and not allow whatever may have been implied to keep him from placing caches. As he has suggested, if we don't like them - as with many things - we can elect not to participate.

 

Kevtel, the comments in the logs should be a vehicle for you, moving forward, to make your cache placement even better, stronger and enjoyable for all those who see the "Cache Published" notifications. We have all made mistakes in our caching "careers" and there's no telling what one cacher may say about another's work - that's the risk we take when we place and search.

 

I ask that you re-evaluate your decision and think of the positive aspects of your caches and the enjoyment they have brought rather than focusing on recent logs. I'm sure the rest of our community supports this view and hope you'll reactivate your caches.

 

An officer from the Raritan police department asked a geocacher to remove cache GC1N353. It was removed by the geocacher who was stopped in the Quick Check parking lot. A second geocacher was actually pulled over by the police. To avoid continued confrontations with the Raritan police, the CO was contacted to archive the cache. As this was a new cache ORereviewer was also asked to be archive the cache as it was no longer in place and it was obvious that the police would confront any further geocaching actiity in the Raritan Quick Check parking lot as they had already stopped two people. I am not aware of anyone stating they disliked kevtel's caches.

Edited March 1, 2009 by weathernowcast

[+Cardinal Red]

This cacher has placed more than 20 caches this year alone, and many seem to be in high muggle areas. Not surprising that some attention would eventually visit one or more of these. The real bonus of placing so many caches though is that the hider then log "finds" to their handiwork. There were also some very SOFT coords on some recently placed hides. But, I didn't actually find anything online that should have prompted this owner to kill everything they own. The overall record seems to show someone that performed timely cache maintenance, and was friendly and helpful. Even to the person to whom they are now directing the most blame.

 

So, smooth sailing, nice guy. A small bump in the road .... slash and burn.

[+weathernowcast]

My two cents is that kevtel has no reason to disable all the caches. Perhaps the QC caches, but I only did one so I don't know.

 

Lessons can be learned without quiting the game.

[+MaitreMind]

CondorTrax - Very well put, I agree and support your view.

 

Kevtel, We've meet and I personally enjoy your hides, some more than others yet all-in-all I feel the same about other cachers caches too. I know others feel the same about my hides too. I have some that are probably shear frustration and if you searched GZ near a few of them you'd find enough DNA from cachers pulling out their hair - of course this is by design. Then there are others who don't have enough DNA to leave at GZ because we've ripped our hair out at home solving puzzles to find tupperware in the woods. We're a crazy lot arent we!

 

In the past I was a bit too hard on some comments to a fellow cacher in logs regarding their coords and I had my logs deleted by the CO. Rather than take offense I contacted the CO and we emailed back and forth and it became evident they didn't know how to average their coords and I walked them through the process. I also apologized for my logs and re-logged them in a positive tone. Since then this cachers hides are spot on and we both learned from the experience. They too are an active cacher close to home and I thoroughly enjoy their creativity.

 

Like CondorTrax stated I also ask "that you re-evaluate your decision and think of the positive aspects of your caches and the enjoyment they have brought rather than focusing on recent logs." Use the experience to grow, there is no grace in continuing to lie down after tripping up.

 

Happy caching and I hope to see your caches I haven't found yet re-enabled.

 

MaitreMind

 

Edited March 1, 2009 by MaitreMind

[+briansnat]

I don't claim to know the reason or rationale behind the action. From the logs it's evident that there was some perceived friction or negative interpretation of a cachers opinion to one or several of his newly placed caches.

 

I'm not familiar with Kevtel's caches but going through the logs it seems that bad coordinates, inadequate containers, or poorly chosen locations were fairly common factors in many of the hides. It seems a few finders made mention of this and the cache owner took offense.

 

What Kevtel and every cache owner needs is thick skin. Not everybody is going to like every one of our caches and some may mention their displeasure in the log. As a cache owners we need to consider the criticism. If it is valid, learn from it. Take extra care obtaining our coordinates, or put some more thought into the location, whatever. If the criticism is not valid it will only reflect poorly on the person who wrote the log, not the cache owner.

Edited March 1, 2009 by briansnat

[yankeepride]

As for the Quick QC series, the store manager at the site that just got the police activity told the cacher who got stopped that no permission was received to place one there, and that they would have said no. Some of these kinds of caches are just begging to get people in trouble, while others have parking lots big enough to allow for some anonymity. I have not tried any from this series myself, but as they are creeping closer to my "next closest" radius, I can say that I was not looking forward to them.

[+Ericles]

I was traveling this weekend and was surprised when another cacher 130 miles from the closest Kevtel cache ask me what's going on when he learns I'm from NJ. These things are bigger than one cache or one cacher as we really are a community. Any discord seems to roll out like a tidal wave.

 

Within a community all actions reflect on the rest of the community. I am Kevtel. So's my wife. So is Pofe. So is Groundspeak. If Quick Chek reads this forum and demands immediate removal of all caches on their property it would be a huge shot to Geocaching as a whole. If other retailers followed suit - or worse, filed suits - not only would we lose even the option of placing a cache of that type but we risk non-cachers thinking that "geocaching" is nothing more than hiding key holders in parking lots. The utmost care has to be taken when placing caches that put all of Geocaching at risk! Regarding empty parking lots: Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

That being said, I appreciate anyone who actually has the guts to put one of these out here to be assessed and/or distressed by public opinion. Kevtel, remember that there are cachers who will spend months putting together a cache and then years perfecting it. They take it personally when others don't put in the same effort. It's up to you if you want to take their comments personally or learn from them. I've only done a few of your caches so I can't speak for the majority of them but I'll say that I did enjoy "Is it Friday yet". The area was public, the cache size appropriate & the coordinates pretty close. TFTC.

 

Regarding putting forth the effort, I think most cachers wouldn't have any real problem with the caches if the coordinates were tighter. They don't want to be searching the dumpster when the cache is in a guardrail. It smells funny. Multiple trips to the same location are usually necessary to get good coordinates. Several good guides have been posted on the internet on averaging. This is my favorite. A good rule of thumb for placing urban caches is that if you don't feel comfortable spending 10 minutes at GZ averaging coordinates, then you should not place a cache there. Too risky.

 

If nothing else, please re-enable any of your caches that have TBs or Geocoins moving through. We really don't need collateral damage coming out of a minor New Jersey skirmish.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

I was traveling this weekend and was surprised when another cacher 130 miles from the closest Kevtel cache ask me what's going on when he learns I'm from NJ. These things are bigger than one cache or one cacher as we really are a community. Any discord seems to roll out like a tidal wave.

 

Within a community all actions reflect on the rest of the community. I am Kevtel. So's my wife. So is Pofe. So is Groundspeak. If Quick Chek reads this forum and demands immediate removal of all caches on their property it would be a huge shot to Geocaching as a whole. If other retailers followed suit - or worse, filed suits - not only would we lose even the option of placing a cache of that type but we risk non-cachers thinking that "geocaching" is nothing more than hiding key holders in parking lots. The utmost care has to be taken when placing caches that put all of Geocaching at risk! Regarding empty parking lots: Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

That being said, I appreciate anyone who actually has the guts to put one of these out here to be assessed and/or distressed by public opinion. Kevtel, remember that there are cachers who will spend months putting together a cache and then years perfecting it. They take it personally when others don't put in the same effort. It's up to you if you want to take their comments personally or learn from them. I've only done a few of your caches so I can't speak for the majority of them but I'll say that I did enjoy "Is it Friday yet". The area was public, the cache size appropriate & the coordinates pretty close. TFTC.

 

Regarding putting forth the effort, I think most cachers wouldn't have any real problem with the caches if the coordinates were tighter. They don't want to be searching the dumpster when the cache is in a guardrail. It smells funny. Multiple trips to the same location are usually necessary to get good coordinates. Several good guides have been posted on the internet on averaging. This is my favorite. A good rule of thumb for placing urban caches is that if you don't feel comfortable spending 10 minutes at GZ averaging coordinates, then you should not place a cache there. Too risky.

 

If nothing else, please re-enable any of your caches that have TBs or Geocoins moving through. We really don't need collateral damage coming out of a minor New Jersey skirmish.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. But all of this means nothing if Kevtel is not on this forum reading it. Maybe someone who's familiar with his caches should tip him off to this forum with an email or something?

 

Personally (especially with a risky parking lot hide), I WELCOME it when people correct my coords. I want some bit of challenge but I don't want someone going so crazy that they go somewhere gross or hang around so long that they'll produce obvious trouble with the law.

Edited March 2, 2009 by HaLiJuSaPa

[+CondorTrax]

Same note was added to one of his caches so I know he got it and he was also informed this was posted on the forum.