cenotaphs & military memorials

[+SOLONM]

I would like to know how everyone (globally) feels about placing a cache in a cenotaph & military memorial area.

[+Cardinal Red]

I would like to know how everyone (globally) feels about placing a cache in a cenotaph & military memorial area.

 

To me, this seems not much different than a cemetary cache. With adequate explicit permission I wouldn't have a problem with the idea, but a search in a high muggle density public area is not my personal idea of fun. Would you place a physical container there, or only have cachers collect information directing them to a more suitable nearby hiding spot? Knowing you personally can't hide caches globally, why do you need a global answer? Can you provide more specifics what / where you have in mind.

[+SOLONM]

I would like to know how everyone (globally) feels about placing a cache in a cenotaph & military memorial area.

 

To me, this seems not much different than a cemetary cache. With adequate explicit permission I wouldn't have a problem with the idea, but a search in a high muggle density public area is not my personal idea of fun. Would you place a physical container there, or only have cachers collect information directing them to a more suitable nearby hiding spot? Knowing you personally can't hide caches globally, why do you need a global answer? Can you provide more specifics what / where you have in mind.

Thanks Cardinal Red. I'd like to know how other cachers feel about placements in these kinds of places, regardless of what country they live in.

Edited November 27, 2009 by SOLONM

[+doingitoldschool]

There is a decent set of caches in the Fraser Valley that take you to quiet and sometimes forgotten cemeteries. The caches are placed out of the way, so that no actual cemetery property is disturbed. I quite enjoyed seeing these peaceful plots of land and history.

The cachers that go looking for it just have to show some respect - if a family is parked nearby, or you see fresh diggings, or a piece of turf over a mound of dirt (sign that a burial is soon to take place), or maintenance people, go find another smiley!

[+Cardinal Red]

To me, this seems not much different than a cemetary cache.

There is a decent set of caches in the Fraser Valley that take you to quiet and sometimes forgotten cemeteries.

 

Just to clarify, I said "this seems not much different than a cemetery cache", but SOLONM is not asking about actual cemetery hides. Instead think memorials to peoples memories absent bodies.

[+Danbike_Lizbike]

Memorials are a matter of your perspective. Go take a look in the Boeblingen Germany area. There are quite a few to one Army in particular.

 

I would like to know how everyone (globally) feels about placing a cache in a cenotaph & military memorial area.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

To me, this seems not much different than a cemetary cache.

There is a decent set of caches in the Fraser Valley that take you to quiet and sometimes forgotten cemeteries.

 

Just to clarify, I said "this seems not much different than a cemetery cache", but SOLONM is not asking about actual cemetery hides. Instead think memorials to peoples memories absent bodies.

The problem with memorial caches will be the perceived agenda... many memorial caches run into this.

[JustWannaCache]

The problem with memorial caches will be the perceived agenda... many memorial caches run into this.

But, it's worth taking your chances, because this particular guideline is never consistently applied from one reviewer to the next, and you may be able to squeak one through.

[+tozainamboku]

To me, this seems not much different than a cemetary cache.

There is a decent set of caches in the Fraser Valley that take you to quiet and sometimes forgotten cemeteries.

 

Just to clarify, I said "this seems not much different than a cemetery cache", but SOLONM is not asking about actual cemetery hides. Instead think memorials to peoples memories absent bodies.

The problem with memorial caches will be the perceived agenda... many memorial caches run into this.

That depends on the cache page not the hide. If the cache page asks people to "remember" or "honor" those being memorialized it would be construed as an agenda. If the cache page simple mentions that the cache is hidden at the XYZ memorial it would be OK. If the cache page says "The cache is hidden at the XYZ memorial so please be respectful while searching" it might depend on the reviewer.

 

I'd prefer a multicache where you have the cacher go to memorial and get some information of the cenotaphs. Then use this information to compute the coordinates for a cache hidden in a nearby park or open space. I didn't a nice one that started at the Submariners' Memorial at a Naval Base near me and the cache was in a park about a half a mile from the base. (GCR4ZX)

[+humboldt flier]

The problem with memorial caches will be the perceived agenda... many memorial caches run into this.

But, it's worth taking your chances, because this particular guideline is never consistently applied from one reviewer to the next, and you may be able to squeak one through.

I rather like the idea of taking them to the site in question gleaning information which takes the seekers to an off site location.. ( puzzle cache )

 

The keeping historical connections and memories alive resonates with me. The hiding of a cache in or on a particular memorial could become problematic especially if cachers seek with a scorched earth mentality. The last phrase is not an indictment, however, sometimes things happen. Sometimes those on the outside might inappropriately attach blame to the caching community

[+wimseyguy]

The problem with memorial caches will be the perceived agenda... many memorial caches run into this.

But, it's worth taking your chances, because this particular guideline is never consistently applied from one reviewer to the next, and you may be able to squeak one through.

It isn't so much about 'squeaking one through' as it's about following the guidelines and not using the geocache listing to promote the agenda. Use the coordinates and cache page to bring the visitors to the memorial. Let them do their own thinking and reflecting and honoring there without telling them they have to do so and it's likely to get published without issue.

Telling someone what to do or think at a site like these is when the agenda guideline flag gets tossed.

Edited November 27, 2009 by wimseyguy

[+tomfuller & Quill]

If I ever get back to Boalsburg Pennsylvania, I certainly will find Legend of the Seven G.I.'s GCWNV4.

It is on the grounds of the Boalsburg Military Museum which is also the site of the 28th Division shrine.

It is a nighttime cache where you go to find the "eyes" of the seven GI's with your light. 96 finds and no DNF's.

If you have a local memorial and the caretaker/owner will allow a cache to be hidden, give it a try.

Most of these places would rather have more visitors than less.

[+OldA'sFan]

I would like to know how everyone (globally) feels about placing a cache in a cenotaph & military memorial area.

Our small city has a lovely park dedicated to local veterans. It is very well done with a plaza that has inscribed blocks with each veterans name, rank, and branch of serivce. Also in the plaza each branch of our military is honored with a placque. I thought it would be a great idea to have a simple multicache that would take a geochacher for a short walk (about 1/2 mile) through this lovely park. Hints would be obtained at the plaza in order to find the final cache. I used words like "honor", "reflect", and "sacrifice" in the description. The title of the cache was All Gave Some...Some Gave All. My reviewer would not publish it because he (she) felt there was an "agenda". I must admit at first I was really pissed. I'm a former United States Marine and I could not understand why anyone would object to a cache dedicated to and honoring our veterans. However, I followed Groudspeaks suggestion and came to this forum for input prior to appealing to Groundspeak.

 

After getting the input I realized that my reviewer was correct in not publishing. Even though I really did not have an agenda and was not trying to speak in favor of, or against our present miltary situations it was best not to use those words or the title. It's best to lead the person to the spot and let them come to their own conclusions based on what they see and feel. Consequently, I changed the title and description. Hopefully, it will still have the impact.

 

OldA'sFan

[+SOLONM]

[quote name='Cardinal Red' Just to clarify, I said "this seems not much different than a cemetery cache", but SOLONM is not asking about actual cemetery hides. Instead think memorials to peoples memories absent bodies.

 

Thanks Cardinal Red. I am not considering placing a cache in such a location. I have found caches which involved visiting cemeteries and memorials. Personally, I don't have a problem with placements in locations such as these, provided the CO has paid tribute to the nature and purpose of the site and encouraged all seekers to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner. Normally, the CO points out the historical value of the visit.

 

I would like to know if there is a "criteria" for cache placements in these sorts of places. There are two caches I am of aware of that make no mention of the memorials and both are memorials to people's memories and absent bodies (one cache is actually on the memorial), the other is on the grounds of a newly renovated cenotaph. Nor do they point out what these places are truly for. Additionally, there are no words of caution regarding respecting the nature of the sites (as in conducting oneself accordingly and respecting other visitors).

[+irlpguy]

Our small city has a lovely park dedicated to local veterans.

OldA'sFan

 

Our Community also has several memorials dedicated to local Servicemen and Woman. One of these spots has had several caches placed near it, one being the final location of a "Spirit Quest" series of caches, and the original "Sapper Park Micro" was dedicated to the Men that served at our local military base, CFB Chilliwack. The original cache paid tribute to those men, it did not ask that you do anything except be aware of why the memorial was placed and certainly was respectful.

 

The latest cache at this location is a micro which is hidden in the same location, this cache is the final of a series of micro's around the City, hardly a tribute to the memorial and a disrespectful placement in my opinion.

 

We now have a completely renovated cenotaph and memorial, which replaces a long time memorial location. (not the same location as above noted) The new memorial was used on Nov 11,2009 as part of our local Remembrance Day Ceremonies.

 

What a shame it would be to place a cache of any kind at this location for any other reason than to honor those that the memorial itself honors. There are lots of places to hide a micro, to hide one here for the sake of just hiding another cache, would be the greatest insult and disgrace imaginable.

 

We never want to glorify wars, or politically refer to past or current conflicts as being right or wrong, we do however need to be respectful of those that died to enable us to enjoy all the things we enjoy in the freedom of this country.

 

I would say if you cannot be respectful of these memorials, then find other places for your caches.

[+OldA'sFan]

Our small city has a lovely park dedicated to local veterans.

OldA'sFan

 

Our Community also has several memorials dedicated to local Servicemen and Woman. One of these spots has had several caches placed near it, one being the final location of a "Spirit Quest" series of caches, and the original "Sapper Park Micro" was dedicated to the Men that served at our local military base, CFB Chilliwack. The original cache paid tribute to those men, it did not ask that you do anything except be aware of why the memorial was placed and certainly was respectful.

 

The latest cache at this location is a micro which is hidden in the same location, this cache is the final of a series of micro's around the City, hardly a tribute to the memorial and a disrespectful placement in my opinion.

 

We now have a completely renovated cenotaph and memorial, which replaces a long time memorial location. (not the same location as above noted) The new memorial was used on Nov 11,2009 as part of our local Remembrance Day Ceremonies.

 

What a shame it would be to place a cache of any kind at this location for any other reason than to honor those that the memorial itself honors. There are lots of places to hide a micro, to hide one here for the sake of just hiding another cache, would be the greatest insult and disgrace imaginable.

 

We never want to glorify wars, or politically refer to past or current conflicts as being right or wrong, we do however need to be respectful of those that died to enable us to enjoy all the things we enjoy in the freedom of this country.

 

I would say if you cannot be respectful of these memorials, then find other places for your caches.

 

At my cache I am not using a micro. It is a multiple, and the final cache is about 2000' from the plaza. However, I see nothing disrespectful about a micro at a memorial. Just the other day I found a micro placed at a war memorial. The cache was magnetic, and was attached to the underside of a bench facing the memorial which listed the names of men and women from that community that had made the ultimate safrifice for their country. Rather than disrespectful, I found it to be a deeply humbling experience to sit on that bench and read the names of these brave men and women. Just my opinion.

 

OldA'sFan

[+SOLONM]

I have no problem with your cache OldA'sFan.

What I'm questioning is when hiders place a cache in a venue such as this and make no mention of A) that the cache is placed in a place of remembrance and use the location to place a cache "just because" there was no cache placed there before and C) making no mention of what that location is dedicated to boggles my mind.

[+Cardinal Red]

I have no problem with your cache OldA'sFan.

What I'm questioning is when hiders place a cache in a venue such as this and make no mention of A) that the cache is placed in a place of remembrance and use the location to place a cache "just because" there was no cache placed there before and C) making no mention of what that location is dedicated to boggles my mind.

 

I now see that you came here with an agenda. You posed a thinly worded question to draw out our opinions on something you already had formed an opinion on.

 

Did you not then read that Groundspeak has taken the stance that to much mention what the location is dedicated to also constitutes an agenda. Agenda caches don't get published. So in your opinion, if cachers can't always say as much as they would like, they shouldn't use that location at all? Just say what it is you want to say and stop playing us.

[+irlpguy]

 

I now see that you came here with an agenda. You posed a thinly worded question to draw out our opinions on something you already had formed an opinion on.

 

Did you not then read that Groundspeak has taken the stance that to much mention what the location is dedicated to also constitutes an agenda. Agenda caches don't get published. So in your opinion, if cachers can't always say as much as they would like, they shouldn't use that location at all? Just say what it is you want to say and stop playing us.

 

I don't understand what is wrong with having an opinion about a topic and seeking others opinion on that topic, I believe this is what Solonm has done, no agenda there.

 

I cannot believe that Groundspeak would not publish a cache that simply recognizes the importance of the location, it is done all the time where caches are placed in appropriate locations to recognize the significance of the location or a nearby location. I cannot see how you or Groundspeak could consider that to be an undesirable agenda. To place a cache giving no recognition is disrespectful IMHO.

[+wimseyguy]

This cache is placed near our local veteran's memorial. The cache is not placed on the memorial nor in the landscaping. Please be respectful of the location during your search.

This text would probably get your cache published.

 

This cache is placed near our local veteran's memorial which honors all of those brave men and women who made the supreme sacrifice. The cache is not placed on the memorial nor in the landscaping. Please be respectful of the location during your search. Stop and think about the freedom that you enjoy because of their service to this great country of ours.

I doubt this one would get published.

 

See how you can be respectful, mention the location, and do so without presenting an agenda?

 

Groundspeak's position is pretty clear in the guideline; no agendas can be presented in your cache listing. Why is that so hard to grip? They do not wish for the volunteer reviewers to be in the position of determining which agendas are desirable and which are not. Do you?

Edited November 28, 2009 by wimseyguy

[+SOLONM]

Thank you wimseyguy, for pointing out the difference with regards to agendas/solicitations.

Please understand I have no intentions of placing such a cache, I am only asking for opinions on caches being placed in places like this by others.

 

What are your thoughts on a cache placed in/on a venue such as a memorial/cenotaph/cemetery with absolutely NO mention of the location NOR any reference to the nature of the location?

 

Is it considered appropriate for a nano (for example) to be placed on a war memorial which lists those who have died in the service of their country, without making some kind of reference the solemn nature of the venue and seekers should conduct themselves appropriately?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Thank you wimseyguy, for pointing out the difference with regards to agendas/solicitations.

Please understand I have no intentions of placing such a cache, I am only asking for opinions on caches being placed in places like this by others.

 

What are your thoughts on a cache placed in/on a venue such as a memorial/cenotaph/cemetery with absolutely NO mention of the location NOR any reference to the nature of the location?

 

Is it considered appropriate for a nano (for example) to be placed on a war memorial which lists those who have died in the service of their country, without making some kind of reference the solemn nature of the venue and seekers should conduct themselves appropriately?

Absolutely!