Readymixer Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I could not find anything on this subject in my searches so here goes..Has it ever been propsed that we could have a place on My Cache Page to log benchmarks that we have found and documented that were not in the NGS database? I think this would be beneficial. I have found several local benchmarks and logged them with the data on the disk and the lat/long. Any ideas on this one? "Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine." Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Go out and find a benchmark not listed on this site. When you find one, post the coordinates and a photo. Hmmm... Where have I heard this one before? Can anyone say "Locationless Benchmarking?" Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I also have found alot of the old brass caps with no documentation to find.We could make a segment just for that. I am no genius at this but have seen many talented artisans among the group. When all else fails Geotry again. Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Today, I managed to find 3 benchmarks that aren't listed. It might be fun to have a way to take a picture of these and list them Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Quote Link to comment
Dale_Lynn Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I got one today that says "State Of California"... Its a "Caltrans" (highway dept) monument... It only has a name dssignation and year... On walkway next to is in surveyors spray chalk it say "GPS MARKER"....... Inquiring mind wants to know... Dale -------------------------------------------------------- I'm Diagonally Parked, In A Parallel Universe. -------------------------------------------------------- [This message was edited by Dale_Lynn on January 22, 2003 at 07:08 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I have seen several like that here in Alabama, Dale... except the say ALDOT here When I was in San Jose (Mountain View actually) in September, I found one like you describe on the sidewalk next to El Camino Real. There sure were a lot of cool places to hide caches in the Bay area... I can't wait to go back with my GPSr Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Quote Link to comment
Dale_Lynn Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Come on back.... I'm about 60 miles south on the Monterey Bay... Got some nice "country" caches... Dale -------------------------------------------------------- I'm Diagonally Parked, In A Parallel Universe. -------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment
iryshe Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Trailblazer # 1:What About a Benchcache Page ? Not in the current system. We're considering ways that will allow this in the future, however. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I will wait and keep track of the Older benchmark like have been doing the others.I also know that there are alot of marks that this would entail around this area as well as others,There are lotssssssssssssssssssss of them out there. Could they be turned into a cache? Or Virtual? When all else fails Geotry again. Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 While doing map annotations for the USGS, I located a benchmark that was shown on the map. No control number. And it is not in the NGS database. The closest one to this location is 2 miles away. I wonder if the "CWA" has something to do with it. It was monumented in 1934 apparently. DustyJacket ...If life was fair, a banana split would cure cancer. Quote Link to comment
+rogbarn Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by dustyjacket:While doing map annotations for the USGS, I located a benchmark that was shown on the map. No control number. And it is not in the NGS database. The closest one to this location is 2 miles away. I wonder if the "CWA" has something to do with it. It was monumented in 1934 apparently. DustyJacket There is a benchmark, JE1848, with the designation "CWA" 5 miles south of the coordinates on your GPS. Are they related somehow? Quote Link to comment
+headmj Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I'm sure that this has been written before but there are large numbers of USGS markers that were set for map purposes (primarily elevation) that are not in the NGS database. They only exist ON PAPER in the files at USGS. Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I got a response from the NGS. If it is not in their database (which I assume feeds Jeremy's DB) they do NOT want to hear about it. I did check the NGS datanase in addition to the benchmark DB on geocaching.com. DustyJacket ...If life was fair, a banana split would cure cancer. Quote Link to comment
+gnbrotz Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by RogBarn:There is a benchmark, http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=JE1848, with the designation "CWA" 5 miles south of the coordinates on your GPS. Are they related somehow? I came up with 3 benchmarks in Missouri with a desination of CWA, and 9 others designated CWA + a number. The closest one is the one Rog mentioned, but none seem to be the one in the pic. Greg N 39 54.705' W 77 33.137' Quote Link to comment
sixthings Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 you can get datasheets from the USGS for the benchmarks that they've monumented. i've found that sometimes there is an overlap; benchmarks in the USGS database are in the NGS database as well, but sometimes there is not. call the USGS office in Rolla, MO, and tell them the USGS quad that you want datasheets for. you will get 2 different sets, one sets is only horizontal, and one set is only vertical. it's quite a jumbled and confused system they're using. Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 The CWA (Civilian Work Administration) was a depression era government project to employ the poor and reduce the breadlines. It was one of many such programs that were part of President Roosevelts New Deal policy, along with the WPA (Work Progress Administration) and CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps), which my father joined to escape the desperation of rural poverty in Eastern Kentucky. They did a tremendous amount of surveying, mostly in the midwest. In most areas they worked sunup to sundown for $1 a day plus room and board. These people did an outstanding job, under the circumstances. There is a wonderful monument to them here in Georgia, on Pine Mountain, near Warm Springs, where the President died. Its something we can all do well to think about when we start to feel that we have it rough today. Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 It seems like there's a new topic on the subject: found-a-benchmark-and-it-isn't-in-the-database almost every week. The benchmark FAQ has a request for other databases, but it is beginning to look like most either don't exist in anything like computerized format or simply aren't being published. I don't know anything about how the geocaching benchmark database is made, but it sure would be great to allow users to add or submit new PID-like pages, either to it, or to some auxiliary database. Jeremy said back in January in this Topic that they're considering it. Whether or not it will ever happen, we could propose some ideas/suggestions on it here. Here's a few: 1. The site would have to generate PID-like serial numbers like G*0001, G*0002, etc. 2. The benchmark search page would have to include the coordinates of these G* 'PIDs' in Lat-Lon searches. 3. The coordinates (NAD83), designation (or lack thereof), agency owner, location narrative with distances and azimuths to nearby landmarks, would have to be entered by the first finder in a form. 4. Requirement: any new PID entered by a first finder requires a picture of the survey disk. 5. Requirement: only normal 2- to 4- inch survey 'benchmark' disks can be added. Things like bridge identifiers, property markers, other types of surveyor's markers, must not be included. (This requirement might need a visual explanation - "if it doesn't look a lot like the disks in these pictures, don't add it. If it looks like any of the disks or other items in these other pictures, don't add it.") 6. People would have to realize that the Site admins could remove any of the G* PIDs from the list at any time for whatever reason. 7. If geocaching ever assimilates one of these other databases, it would be the benchmaker's responsibility to copy their pictures over to the new PID locations and to identify which G* PIDs should be removed as duplicate. Quote Link to comment
Cracker. Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers:5. Requirement: only normal 2- to 4- inch survey 'benchmark' disks can be added. Things like bridge identifiers, property markers, other types of surveyor's markers, must not be included. (This requirement might need a visual explanation - "if it doesn't look a lot like the disks in these pictures, don't add it. If it looks like any of the disks or other items in these other pictures, don't add it.") Why does this need to be a requirement? I my area, there are many old railroad beds with culverts and abutments from the mid-to-late 1800's that have bolts and rods as markers. Many of these are already listed in the NGS database, and a couple I have found even have the description stamped on the bolthead. I've seen other odd items used in the 1800's as survey points on the forums that are legit points listed in the NGS database... So why just 2-4" standard disks? Art www.yankeetoys.org www.BudBuilt.com www.pirate4x4.com Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Well, these are not real requirements, just suggestions of requirements. I am trying to figure out how to avoid having a database become full of things that aren't really survey stations. Without any restrictions, it could become a pile of junk fairly quickly. Also, I was recalling some articles in this forum - bridge identifiers are very unsafe to be around, people are very sensitive about property corner markers and a person nosing around them could get shot or threatened, and surveyors would be sensitive about temporary markers and there are also so many thousands of them. So, I was thinking that a good start would be to limit new entries to disks. You do raise a good point, though, that there are non-disk survey markers too. Hopefully, they can be easily visually distinguished from property corner markers and temporary surveyors markers. Perhaps some pictures of them would help. Quote Link to comment
Cracker. Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers:Well, these are not real requirements, just suggestions of requirements. I should have used the word "suggestions" also...I realise its just a loose list right now... I just mainly wanted to hear what your reasoning for this suggestion was... quote:I am trying to figure out how to avoid having a database become full of things that aren't really survey stations. Without any restrictions, it could become a pile of junk fairly quickly. Good point, and I did think of that, too. quote:Also, I was recalling some articles in this forum - bridge identifiers are very unsafe to be around, people are very sensitive about property corner markers and a person nosing around them could get shot or threatened, and surveyors would be sensitive about temporary markers and there are also so many thousands of them. I guess i can understand about the bridge thing, but I live in a very rural area....so it may not raise eyebrows like in an urban setting... As to property markers, I was thinking common sense would prevail here... As to temp surveyors marks, I hadnt thought of that...perhaps pics or descriptions of what type of setting those might be in? Art www.yankeetoys.org www.BudBuilt.com www.pirate4x4.com Quote Link to comment
+catcher24 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I like the idea of a site here to list any USGS or other good BM's not listed at the HGS site. BDT's loose guidelines seem sensible to start with, and adjustments could be made along the way as necessary. Also, if I am not mistaken, Rogbarn (or someone, but I think it was him) broached this topic about a month ago. He suggested that someone volunteer to get a USGS quad and review it for placed benchmark disks and the info could be entered in a forum on the site. I know that the quads have a certain symbol (I think a triangle) indicating a monumented disk, and it might take a while to do every quad, but I think it would be doable. Catcher24 "You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I have all the Marks in the Cassville,Shell Knob,Eagle Rock,and parts of the Quads that border these so far but how do you publish something like that to this web site??? I am very Computer Illeterate when it comes down to the Technical Aspects of the Programming I just do not have the experience or knowledge yet. Why couldnt you use the same standard as the NGS .That would help the abuse part of it and make it professional like. THE MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL IN THE FOREST DOES NOT EVEN LIVE THERE*********WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS*GEOTRYAGAIN **1803-2003 "LOUSIANA PURCHASE" 200TH ANNIVERSARY AND THE "LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION" http://www.lapurchase.org http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+wolf452 Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Catcher, I have all the quads for 8 states, who will be first to volunteer to do all my other work while I glean triangles off these nearly 10,000 quads!!!!! On another score, scaled coordinates are +/- 6 seconds. Here at 42D north, thats 600 feet. If someone takes $400 GPSR and looks, he is ON, but not really!!!! Quote Link to comment
+catcher24 Posted May 26, 2003 Share Posted May 26, 2003 Wolf - Both good points. The original suggestion was for each volunteer to take ONE quad and do it, or maybe a couple. Obviously, that presumes there are several hundred individuals interested in doing this. Regarding the second point, I don't think this is a big problem. The quads show the actual physical location of the BM. The individual should go to that location anyway to verify the BM is still there, so could take a GPS reading at the actual physical site. This updated info, along with the physical location description, should permit any subsequent searchers to locate the BM without much trouble.I think the biggest problem would be finding enough interested people to do it! Catcher24 "You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 quote:Originally posted by DustyJacket:While doing map annotations for the USGS, I located a benchmark that was shown on the map. No control number. And it is not in the NGS database. The closest one to this location is 2 miles away. I wonder if the "CWA" has something to do with it. It was monumented in 1934 apparently. DustyJacket ...If life was fair, a banana split would cure cancer. I read the 1934 report on the progress of CWA projects in Michigan. Seems that congress stopped the funding in 1935 or 36 abouts. Many of the marks had already been placed but never surveyed. USC&GS was to later survey these marks where feasible but may never were used. I saw in the report that many in Michigan are like that. I no longer (retired) has access to that information but each state had a report on progress. I found this report about 20 yrs ago in some old archives in my supervisors office. There are all kinds of these USC&GS and SS marks in my area. All were horizontal and surveyed in 1934, then many later leveled accross by USC&GS. In Michigan the work was under the supervision of Professor C.M. Cade. [This message was edited by elcamino on May 28, 2003 at 06:42 AM.] Quote Link to comment
teamcourage Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 The otehr day wlaking down town I notcied a bench mark but when I search undr cody wyoming all the ones I see listed our out of town not in town and thyis one is on main street. the palce I searched wason geocaching.com is there a beter palce to search. quote:Originally posted by Readymixer:I could not find anything on this subject in my searches so here goes..Has it ever been propsed that we could have a place on My Cache Page to log benchmarks that we have found and documented that were not in the NGS database? I think this would be beneficial. I have found several local benchmarks and logged them with the data on the disk and the lat/long. Any ideas on this one? "Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine." Quote Link to comment
dsurveyor Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 If people are serious about databasing these, I will look into providing an online database along the lines discused above. Interest? Experience - A list of non fatal mistakes. Quote Link to comment
+Black Dog Trackers Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 dsurveyor - That is a very nice offer. Your offer may indeed be the way to go, but I'd like to hold off for just a bit to see what Jeremy's intentions are at the present time on this topic. I think it would be best to have it all on the same site if possible, at least for the sake of homogenous proximity searches, etc., and in this same thread, Jeremy implied that he'd do it. Quote Link to comment
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