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It was all about the numbers after all...

#1 User is offline   The Cheeseheads 

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  Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:35 PM

...as in the number of hours in a day I have for stuff. Unfortunately, not very many of those hours go towards website development.

I was laid off from my job in 2005, and eventually got a temp job at a local company. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot to do, but with virtually unfettered internet access and plenty of extra time, I decided to hone my PHP skills and developed a way that would let me take in a GPX file and verify what pages were completed for the Wisconsin DeLorme Challenge cache. after that was up and running, someone made a post in the Groundspeak forums about stats and the game not being about the numbers, and as a joke, registered itsnotaboutthenumbers.com and posted a link proving the point.

Soon after, I had the idea to reuse my DeLorme code to take the GPX file I read and derive some simple stats. The I added more stats. And more stats. The site got the blessing from Groundspeak. More people started using INATN. The servers went down. The site was moved to a dedicated server host, funded by Groundspeak. Things were good.

Then I got my old job back, and between that and a third child, I didn't have time to develop the site any further, but I did what I could to keep it going. Eventually, new cache types were added. Attributes were added to the GPX format. I patched things up here and there, but someone always managed to come up with a strange case that resisted all attempts to make it work.

I finally made a difficult decision: With no time to give INATN the attention it deserves, and new (and better) stat solutions out there, I've decided to close down the site. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who helped support this effort over the past several years, especially the wonderful folks at Groundspeak and everybody who either donated via Paypal or clicked on one of the links. It's been fun working on this and seeing the varied reactions from stat-hounds and stat-haters alike.

Thanks again, and see you on the trail!

-Dave Krug (aka The Cheeseheads)

#2 User is offline   pseudoprime 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:41 PM

Thanks very much for all the work you did. When I was geocaching more, my favorite part of the finds was uploading to your site to watch the maps change.

Can you mention specifically which new and better stat solutions there are out there?

#3 User is offline   StarBrand 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:44 PM

:P

Thanks - I'll miss it.

#4 User is offline   narcissa 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:54 PM

I know a lot of people are going to miss the site. So long and thanks for all the fish!

#5 User is offline   Chrysalides 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:00 PM

Sorry to see this one go. Thank you, and good luck with work and family.

#6 User is offline   TheBeanTeam 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:46 PM

Yes, I am also sorry to see it go and appreciate your efforts in the past.

#7 User is offline   rockymtn8iv 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:55 PM

THANX!
For everything!!! :P
Good luck to ya!
:D

#8 User is offline   Clan Riffster 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:05 PM

Dave, you did some pretty amazing stuff with PHP.
Thank you for all your hard work! :P

#9 User is offline   Coldgears 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:43 PM

Many people including myself would still like to use that site. It had some stats that none of the other did. It was a great site... I'm sure people would be willing to donate to keep the servers running if that's an issue.

#10 User is offline   TrailGators 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 04:34 PM

Thanks for all your hard work Dave! That was a cool site! I'm not a numbers person but your site made it fun to load my caches and see a bunch of interesting stats and trends. Good luck! :P

#11 User is offline   Webfoot 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:16 PM

Thanks Cheesy. It was a great site and it's really too bad that it's going to meet its demise. I will miss it.

#12 User is offline   briansnat 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:21 PM

Thanks for the site, it was a fun and easy way to slice and dice stats. I'm not in this for numbers, but I've always found statistics to be interesting.

I hope it would be possible for someone else with the skills and resources to take the site over.

#13 User is offline   beejay&esskay 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 06:44 PM

Dave-
Thanks for all the work you've done on INATN. It was the maps on your site that made me think "I bet I could find a cache in every county in Indiana."

I'm not aware of anyone else who has a finds by county for the US map. And so far I haven't seen anyone with the state maps with county labels like you had.

But I guess nothing lasts forever and I'll need to seek other solutions.

#14 User is offline   brslk 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 06:53 PM

View Postbeejay&esskay, on Jun 22 2010, 07:44 PM, said:

Dave-
Thanks for all the work you've done on INATN. It was the maps on your site that made me think "I bet I could find a cache in every county in Indiana."

I'm not aware of anyone else who has a finds by county for the US map. And so far I haven't seen anyone with the state maps with county labels like you had.

But I guess nothing lasts forever and I'll need to seek other solutions.


Or create them.

#15 User is offline   GeekBoy.from.Illinois 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 07:04 PM

I don't think I've ever used the site, but I have met Dave in passing a few times. Heck, he lives within about 25 miles of me...

I think it's a shame to see the site go, and in some ways, I will miss it too.

Thanks for all your hard work Dave, and good luck in your future endeavors!

#16 User is online   TheAlabamaRambler 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:24 PM

Thanks for the fun!

Would you turn it over to someone with the skill to carry it forward (that would definitely not be me!)

Why not make it open-source and let the community take it over?

#17 User is offline   brslk 

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:12 PM

View PostTheAlabamaRambler, on Jun 22 2010, 09:24 PM, said:

Thanks for the fun!

Would you turn it over to someone with the skill to carry it forward (that would definitely not be me!)

Why not make it open-source and let the community take it over?


My thoughts but better stated than my previous post.

#18 User is offline   NYPaddleCacher 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:00 AM

I'm one of those that uses one of the other solutions but I've seen plenty of profile pages which use INATN and it does a good job.

A couple of people have suggested making the code open source. Have you considered donating the code to Groundspeak. Considering how many geocachers are using some form of gecaching stats in their profiles it's pretty obvious that it's something that a lot of geocachers want. Seems to me that it INATN was integrated into the profile management pages a lot of people would use it instead of one of those other solutions. Rather than producing stats from a pocket query it could provide a set of form elements on the profile page and generate stats right out of their database. I would probably reduce the load on their servers and provide a service that a lot of geocachers want.

#19 User is offline   bflentje 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 06:19 AM

I want to wish you the best but I suspect you're a Packer fan, so forget it. :P j/k

#20 User is offline   Castle Mischief 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:01 AM

Thanks for all the hard work. I used the site from time to time and it was always interesting to see the number line up and the stats roll out.

#21 User is online   TheAlabamaRambler 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:03 AM

View PostNYPaddleCacher, on Jun 23 2010, 06:00 AM, said:

I'm one of those that uses one of the other solutions but I've seen plenty of profile pages which use INATN and it does a good job.

A couple of people have suggested making the code open source. Have you considered donating the code to Groundspeak. Considering how many geocachers are using some form of gecaching stats in their profiles it's pretty obvious that it's something that a lot of geocachers want. Seems to me that it INATN was integrated into the profile management pages a lot of people would use it instead of one of those other solutions. Rather than producing stats from a pocket query it could provide a set of form elements on the profile page and generate stats right out of their database. I would probably reduce the load on their servers and provide a service that a lot of geocachers want.

Excellent!

#22 User is offline   bflentje 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:03 AM

Have you considered passing your work off to someone else to keep it going?

#23 User is offline   steve p 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:05 AM

I will miss the nice maps. Sorry to see it go. Thanks for your efforts in the past with the site.

It would have been nice to have enough notice to get a screenshot of the US map before shutting down. Of course, that would have been just a static image of the states at the time, but still would have been nice.

#24 User is offline   ivanidea 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 01:22 PM

I am saddened to see the loss of an excellent site, and wish to thank you for all the hard work you have put into it, and best wishes for your future ventures.

As others have said, the maps were the best and easiest ones I have used, and I will now have to persevere and get the GSAK ones to work for the UK counties.

Ivan

#25 User is offline   Trekkin' and birdin' 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 01:51 PM

Dave,

We can sure appreciate and applaud you for keeping your priorities straight. We've enjoyed the use of the INATN site since discovering it, and will really miss that cool feature allowing one to click on a D/T cell to see which caches qualified. Thanks for sharing your talents with the rest of us all this time. Now go enjoy your growing family!

#26 User is offline   9Key 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:08 PM

Thanks for all the hard work! I used the site quite a bit and it was very useful. Sorry to see it go! :huh:

#27 User is offline   FantasticCat 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:17 PM

I've spent many a late evening in a different English county trying to get enough finds to get a county to change colour. Thanks for all your hard work. Really hope someone can carry it on.

#28 User is offline   bitbrain 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:36 PM

Thanks for all the work you put into the site, Dave.

Keep on rockin' the cheese!

#29 User is offline   OnD'Hunt 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 06:22 PM

I have to start by thanking you for all the hard work you put into the site over the years!

Like everyone else I am sorry to se this site go. I used it regularly and enjoyed all the stats! The maps were awesome. I loved seeing the different states and counties fill in with color and seeing where I have been. I will miss it.

It would be great if Groundspeak could take it over or do something. It seems like such a natural extension of the geocaching site.

#30 User is offline   jonnyt 

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:37 PM

Thanks from me as well dave, it was an excellent site.

I have a number of uk counties where I have enjoyed working out which cache to visit to join up the uk county map.


Much appreciated.

Jonnyt

#31 User is offline   The Chaos Crew 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:58 AM

nooooo! I'm just back from a trip to Dublin, and I was soooo looking forward to seeing Ireland change colour today, sob!

but I totally understand your reasons for withdrawing from all the work a site like that must generate - and I also would like to say a big thank you, and hope that someone else will be able to take the site over so that we can continue to use it....

Sarah

PS in the meantime, if anyone does crack the UK counties thing in GSAK or via any other method, please let me know!

#32 User is offline   rob3k 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:43 AM

Loved the site, thanks for keeping keeping it running as long as you did.

#33 User is offline   Sioneva 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:29 AM

I'm really going to miss this site. :huh: There was nothing else half as good!

#34 User is offline   Sioneva 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:32 AM

What are the "new and better stat sites"? Does anyone know?

#35 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:49 AM

View PostSioneva, on Jun 24 2010, 07:32 AM, said:

What are the "new and better stat sites"? Does anyone know?


Mostly GSAK based. But there's the equally web-based My Geocaching Profile.com Or the stand-alone program Cache Stats.

Itsnotaboutthenumbers.com is indeed 404 already (i.e. off the internet), so y'all better get another stats source pronto.

#36 User is offline   dakboy 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:58 AM

View PostTheWhiteUrkel, on Jun 24 2010, 11:49 AM, said:

View PostSioneva, on Jun 24 2010, 07:32 AM, said:

What are the "new and better stat sites"? Does anyone know?


Mostly GSAK based. But there's the equally web-based My Geocaching Profile.com Or the stand-alone program Cache Stats.

Itsnotaboutthenumbers.com is indeed 404 already (i.e. off the internet), so y'all better get another stats source pronto.

404 means page can't be found. The server is still there & responding to requests.

I've used MyGeocachingProfile.com but not thrilled with it (it is nice for checking DeLorme Challenge progress or lack thereof though). I like GCStatistic for my stats. And there's the ever-popular FindStatGen GSAK macro.

#37 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:04 AM

View Postdakboy, on Jun 24 2010, 07:58 AM, said:

View PostTheWhiteUrkel, on Jun 24 2010, 11:49 AM, said:

View PostSioneva, on Jun 24 2010, 07:32 AM, said:

What are the "new and better stat sites"? Does anyone know?


Mostly GSAK based. But there's the equally web-based My Geocaching Profile.com Or the stand-alone program Cache Stats.

Itsnotaboutthenumbers.com is indeed 404 already (i.e. off the internet), so y'all better get another stats source pronto.

404 means page can't be found. The server is still there & responding to requests.

I've used MyGeocachingProfile.com but not thrilled with it (it is nice for checking DeLorme Challenge progress or lack thereof though). I like GCStatistic for my stats. And there's the ever-popular FindStatGen GSAK macro.


Ok, that's slang. Techically it's a 500 error. :huh:

Well, since I posted again, I might as well say something. Here is the profile of the creator of cachestats, which he uses as an "example" of what it looks like. I believe he uses every stat you can display with the program there. Note also you'll have to get your own world66 states map, where itsnotaboutthenumbers.com generated their own.

EDIT: I never used cachestats maps before, I notice he generates the world 66 maps for you right from cachestats, as opposed to going to their website and generating it, and copying the HTML yourself. Cool feature, and it works good.

This post has been edited by TheWhiteUrkel: 24 June 2010 - 05:38 PM


#38 User is offline   NyRosie & Racepics 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:26 AM

;) Thanks for all you did, I really enjoyed the site and used it quite frequently.

#39 User is offline   maxkim 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:38 AM

As said thanks for all you have done... but even keeping as it is now would be better than not at all????

#40 User is offline   beejay&esskay 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:52 AM

View Postmaxkim, on Jun 24 2010, 02:38 PM, said:

... but even keeping as it is now would be better than not at all????
I'm guessing he felt under continuing pressure by those who had problems that he couldn't resolve in a timely manner.

A number of people have been unable to upload their data. (I had occasional problems where the upload would fail with no message. Later attempts would eventually work.)

And then I'm sure there were issues of caches being listed in the wrong county (especially in Virginia.)

Probably one less headache to just shut down the site. I sympathize, even though I lost my favorite map (US counties with caches found.)

(Edited to add: I've been told of http://counties.visitedmap.com/ which looks like it will allow me to generate my map of the US with finds by county.)

This post has been edited by beejay&esskay: 24 June 2010 - 06:02 PM


#41 User is offline   Scarecrowe 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:51 PM

Thanks for the time you put into such a great site and good luck to you!

#42 User is offline   TripCyclone 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:27 PM

1. Add my vote to opening up the doors for someone else who might like to take over running the site (not me...I wouldn't know the first step about PHP).

2. Add my vote to the idea of Groundspeak adopting it. Seems they have helped it out in the past through funding or hosting, so they recognize that their customers want to use the service. Maybe they could now take over it completely, helping their customers continue to use this wonderful stats service.

3. I love the maps too. My favorite part. Also, the clickable D/T grid was very helpful as well.

#43 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:36 PM

Oh, I was so busy posting links to alternatives, I never thanked Dave. Thanks Dave. ;) I profess to not care about numbers, but I've been a total stats geek (mostly sports), since about the time I got out of diapers. I especially will miss the County maps.

#44 User is offline   webscouter. 

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:50 PM

Add me to the list of those who will really miss this site. I never used its output directly in my profile but I did really like the D/T grid and used the maps to make sure that my manual ones were accurate.

Thanks for all the fish Dave.

#45 User is offline   RoPeHe 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 02:20 AM

I'll also miss the site, very much. I liked the output that INATN provided, especially the British Isles county map. Thank you for keeping it going for so long ;)

#46 User is offline   karstic 

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:34 PM

Definately gonna miss the site. I'm a map and stats junkie.

Can I buy ya a beer when I'm in WI at the end of July?

This post has been edited by karstic: 25 June 2010 - 08:34 PM


#47 User is offline   Godfreyh 

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 07:25 AM

Thanks Dave.
I'll miss it even though I've only been using it a few weeks.
It had some great detail maps.
GodfreyH

#48 User is offline   Trucker Lee 

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:34 PM

Thanks for all your work and efforts, Cheesy.

We can understand that work and life will sometimes get in the way of serious caching, wishing you all the best as you go forward.

The site was the first stats organizer I used, and really made my new hobby that much for fun when I could see the changes I was making in an easy format. Thanks again.

#49 User is offline   SaltercreaseRangers 

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:21 PM

Thankyou for making such an excellent resource and sharing it !

#50 User is offline   Team Laxson 

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:45 AM

I'll chime in too - loved the site and what it did. Simple, easy, yet very effective. INATN motivated me to complete the Delorme Challenge and the Colorado County Challenge - neither of which I've finished yet - but we're still working on it.

The maps were the unique part of the site - and the most motivating to go out and go somewhere new. Will miss that.

Thanks for all the hard work on the site - we appreciate the effort you put into it!

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