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Iphone 4 GPS is rubish Iphone 4 gps is rubbish

#1 User is offline   scuba_2 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:05 AM

Iphone 4 gps is rubbish
tryed one this weekend it was out by 60 feet at best when standing still coords jump around alot
however tested ipad at same time it was good to 6 feet same as my gps!

this explains why I could not find any info on its accuracy of Iphone 4 gps on the net they did not want to tell you it is still rubish!
the antenna is just too small to be good.

#2 User is offline   geohatter 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:16 AM

Moved from the UK forum to the GPS and Tech forum

#3 User is offline   NordicMan 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:21 AM

Well, rumor has it the iPhone 4G has the best GPS yet of all the iPhones, but I don't know how it actually compares to other Smartphones, or other dedicated handhelds..

Scuba2, what other GPSr's have you used/tried?

#4 User is offline   Marky 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:47 AM

I've used my wife's iPhone 4, and it has worked great for me, getting +-16ft under normal conditions. That seems perfectly acceptable. My iPhone 3GS is usually at 56ft. This past weekend, I saw it momentarily report 30ft accuracy, but not for more than a second.

--Marky

#5 User is offline   ZSandmann 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:51 AM

I have had excellent success with my iphone 4. The accuracy on the screen may not be... well accurate. I have been bullseyeing caches with it like shoot Womp Rats with my T-16 Skyhopper.

#6 User is offline   Mark+Karen 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:40 AM

You must have had a faulty one. Mine normally gives sub 5m accuracy and it always rock solid. Plus you must not have searched very hard for info there is loads out there including posts by me on this site.

#7 User is offline   scuba_2 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:18 AM

not great with forums thats why i posted this in wrong place did not even know this bit was here.
as for gps i have an old garmin gps12 accurate to about 6 feet 99.9% of the time.

The test

i picked a position and put a marker on the ground.
then took cords with Ipone 4, I pad ,my garmin and my friends nokia phone

we then walked away and made several returnd to the marker
3 had nearly identical cords and got back to the marker within 6 feet every time.
The Iphone said 43 ft 76 ft 60 ft and was jumping around
the cords did not stay still either they kept changing on screen.

Test two tree cover

we then tryed for a known location that involved a path with trees as we got even a little tree cover the Iphone flicked from 33 to 96 ft acuracy
most of the time it said 33 and only twice did it show 16ft.

prety much the whole time the garmin and ipad showed 16ft
I belive the antenna in the Iphone 4 is to blame?

just look at yours next time your out and see if the cords stay constant when you stop?
I may have had a faulty unit but after the problems they had with the Iphone 3 gps im not so sure.
Iphone 4 uses the same chipset as ipad but apple have not stated how accurate it is . why maybe because they know.

I was also amazed my friends 2 year old nokia phone was accurate to 6 ft so it can be done but maybe not if you are trying to keep theIphones ikonic size and shape.

#8 User is offline   xc turtles 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:04 PM

HI
I am new to geocaching, but my iphone has been very accurate... usually taking me right to the cache. The antenna is better in this phone than any of the others.. not sure why you are having issues.

Teresa
xc turtles

#9 User is offline   humboldt flier 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:31 PM

Is the OP bothered by the iPhone 4?

or

Is the person commenting on the version 4 update to the geocaching app?

There has been grumbling about the app. Enough grumbling that I have not up-dated to 4.?

This post has been edited by humboldt flier: 25 August 2010 - 12:32 PM


#10 User is offline   scuba_2 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:41 PM

I wonder if the gps signal is beter in the usa? or your Iphone some how slightly different?
when checking I looked at the coords on the compass page of the app which was the latest version.
but the built in map prog semed to move about too.

#11 User is offline   Marky 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 01:51 PM

View Postscuba_2, on Aug 25 2010, 01:41 PM, said:

I wonder if the gps signal is beter in the usa? or your Iphone some how slightly different?
when checking I looked at the coords on the compass page of the app which was the latest version.
but the built in map prog semed to move about too.

You may have a defective one. You should be getting as good or better than the iPad. If you can find someone with an iPhone 4, do a side by side comparison. If yours isn't performing as well, you definitely should considered returning it for a new one.

--Marky

#12 User is offline   RRLover 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 05:16 PM

How is the OP holding the device?
The iPhone 4 has different areas of the housing acting as
antennae for the different aspects of radio transmission/
reception. If one holds adjacent areas of the housing
all bets are off, antennae are tuned for their specific
needs, human tissue conducts enough to upset the
balance, especially when contacting(in close proximity)
two antennae @ the same time. Presence or lack of a
cover also could have an effect on X/R efficiency.
The little lines of demarkation between the different
"zones" are quite fine and may not be noticed w/out
close scrutiny.
This is a hardware issue in the design of the case;
ya win some, ya lose some.
I'll wait for #5

Norm

#13 User is offline   Skippermark 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 06:39 PM

I'm using the latest version of the GC app 4.01 with the iPhone 4 and love it. Coords are so good that about half the time I go to a cache I leave my regular GPS in the car and only take the phone. Together both are very stable and work great.

#14 User is offline   sduck 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 06:56 PM

I've done a few caches with just my iphone 4 and the newest version of the geocaching app, and haven't had any problems. It's put me right where I needed to be, and the blue dot seemed to be spot on with regards to the satellite imagery shown. I generally still prefer to use my oregon for caching, as I don't have to worry about battery life and all that, but for grabbing some quick ones while out of town the iphone has been great. In other words, I haven't had the experience the OP has.

#15 User is offline   frisbee'r 

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:18 PM

Get ready for this folks: I need to do this to begin the process of eliminating the iphone as a recommended GPS device on Groundspeak's website. If this doesn't happen soon, Geocaching as we know it will come to a crossroads of whether it's doing more harm than good. Have I peeked your interest yet?

The iPhone of all vintages, used as a GPS, is a misearble failure. I cache in the Pacific Northwest of the US which is mostly forested on the western side of the Cascades. I started taking statistics over the last 3 months finding 800 caches released over the same period over a 60 mile radius. What I've been finding are these important issues:

1) More cachers then ever are placing containers with less than 10 finds.
2) Most of these new cachers are using the iPhone to find caches. The average distance of error is 185'.
3) I do iPhone rescues in the field all the time. People are off on less than social trails, usually bushwacking and not ever close to the prize. I inform them that the best GPS is a hand-held, water-proof, shock resistant, dedicated GPS, etc, etc. It's bad enough to see trees, vegetation, trails, logs, stumps get hammered by those carrying an iPhone but what's WORSE by degrees is wannabe cachers PLACING geocaches using the iPhone. Now you have the worst of scenerios. Bad coordinates and all geocachers handling any GPS, even those with considerable experience, cannot possibly make the find.
4) Everything that Groundspeak was founded on, all the instructionsl slide shows, all the material developed in the first few years, the books written, ....... to do a good job placing and finding caches has been waived by placing the iPhone on the [GPS] screen.
5) If Geocaching goes down, the major manufacturers of GPS's will loose 60-70% of their hand held GPS business. So, this is a business decision. Shut down the iPhone GPS app recommendation now or it's going to get ugly.
6) How ugly .... let me expand on this. I've witnessed iPhone hides where the coodinates are far enough off that it's clearly on private property. You want to see nasty confrontations of homeowners, business people, civil servants, stewarts of the land, just stay tuned.
7) Law enforcement is no longer saying "carry on" when they find geocachers, day or night, disturbing the peace, or illegally on private or on public lands after hours. More evidence is now being posted in logs.
8) One last detail, the iphone is NOT field reliable. It's not water resistant no matter the style or purpored claims of protection of cases. You can't expect to get any accuracy when it's tucked away in your pocket as you're climbing, fording creeks, in a rainforest and the list is endless.

Things Groundspeak could do to better:

1) Every new cacher must have a Beta Tester, an experienced cacher to take readings for verification. Actually, this should be done regardless of experience whenever and wherever challenging terrain caches are placed.
2) New cachers should seek out and the approvers provided a field on the [Online Placement Form] the Goocaching name of the "advocate" or "mentor" for the first 5 hides. An approver needs only 5 seconds to check this out. The time saved over the life of a cache would be huge.
3) The [Online Placement Form] should have a checkbox or an attribute that a cache was placed using an iPhone or other device prone to providing inaccurate readings.

I'm passionate about this sport that I love so much. I want it to survive another 10 years so I can take my grandson on treks to find treasures. Maybe, those will end up being incredible views, finding works of art, historical places, and just the exercise as the highlights. Mark this date, 8/25/2010. In a couple of years or so our "precious" may have melted away in the fires of Mt. Doom.

Part 1 complete.
================================

This post has been edited by frisbee'r: 26 August 2010 - 09:16 AM


#16 User is offline   user13371 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:01 AM

Frisbee'r, I agree with you a lot of newbies do a bad job on placement. But banning the iPhone (or any other device or method) will not fix that.

The only thing that will help is better education and improving the review process. How would you feel about these restrictions on anyone's first 10 hides: No micros or nanos, and the reviewer/approver has to actually visit the cache before it can be published. Make it initially difficult, and include a healthy dose of education/mentoring -- and you'll improve the quality of the caches.

#17 User is offline   ecanderson 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:51 AM

View Postlee_rimar, on Aug 26 2010, 07:01 AM, said:

...and the reviewer/approver has to actually visit the cache before it can be published.
Given the wide territories of some of the reviewers out west, THAT ain't gonna happen.

#18 User is offline   dakboy 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:54 AM

View Postecanderson, on Aug 26 2010, 09:51 AM, said:

View Postlee_rimar, on Aug 26 2010, 07:01 AM, said:

...and the reviewer/approver has to actually visit the cache before it can be published.
Given the wide territories of some of the reviewers out west, THAT ain't gonna happen.

That wouldn't even work in New York. We have 2 reviewers for the state. The "east" reviewer couldn't cover all of his/her territory if required to visit each newbie's first couple hides, as that territory stretches from The Hamptons all the way to Canada.

#19 User is offline   keehotee 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:41 AM

View Postlee_rimar, on Aug 26 2010, 02:01 PM, said:

Frisbee'r, I agree with you a lot of newbies do a bad job on placement. But banning the iPhone (or any other device or method) will not fix that.



I'm not sure that's what he was suggesting - there's a HUGE difference between banning a device and not recommending it.

#20 User is offline   Marky 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:21 AM

View Postfrisbee'r, on Aug 25 2010, 09:18 PM, said:

8) One last detail, the iphone is NOT field reliable. It's not water resistant no matter the style or purpored claims of protection of cases.

I don't think that is a completely true statement, I think the Magellan tough case for the 3G and 3GS is an IPX-7 rated case (that also has an external GPS chip with its own antenna that improves the accuracy).


Regarding the rest of your statements, I don't completely disagree. I would like to see some stronger discouragement of using the iPhone to hide caches (maybe in the gc.com app, and on the cache submission form). Bad coords are just no fun.

--Marky

#21 User is offline   NordicMan 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:14 AM

Of all the smartphones on the market, the iPhones seem to get the worst reputation for GPSr accuracy :laughing: Are they "really that bad" compared to other smartphones, or does it just seem that way because they are so incredibly popular?

#22 User is offline   markstang 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:22 AM

View PostNordicMan, on Aug 26 2010, 08:14 AM, said:

Of all the smartphones on the market, the iPhones seem to get the worst reputation for GPSr accuracy :laughing: Are they "really that bad" compared to other smartphones, or does it just seem that way because they are so incredibly popular?


They would very in performance and difference to other smart phones like cars very from one manufacturer to another or GPS manufacturers very from one to another. Because the word "smart phone" describes all of them does not mean they are the same at all. My Iphone reception (all 4 of them ) was horrible most of the time. But that has more to do with towers and location. My current smart phone works everywhere in my home. My Iphones never ever worked in my home.

I felt I could give some opinion on the Iphone because I owned them for over two years. Night and day From Iphone too what I have. Iphones are wonderful phones and I am not nocking them. Just giving insight into what I believe is a reception problem. (for me)

#23 User is offline   barn owl 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:37 AM

ive had it both ways. once the iphone got me within 3 feet and another time it tried to put me in a creek 30' off!! in my opinion, using iphones should be discouraged because they are not reliable. if someone wants to hide a cache, they need to use a real gps, if they are searching, not finding it is their problem.

#24 User is offline   markstang 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:22 PM

View Postbarn owl, on Aug 26 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

ive had it both ways. once the iphone got me within 3 feet and another time it tried to put me in a creek 30' off!! in my opinion, using iphones should be discouraged because they are not reliable. if someone wants to hide a cache, they need to use a real gps, if they are searching, not finding it is their problem.


I am pretty sure from the reading I have done "so far" and as much as I have read (repeat) "so far"

A "REAL" GPS
is a device that receives signals from multiple Satellites to determine fractional time differences based on the devices ability to read atomic time and transfers the information to (so many) different applications so as to see the resulting information on a Map as "Location" in real time.

Yeah this is basic baby talk but It is what I have determined so far.

A real GPS
is one that reads Satellite signals and is not something Plastic made by a toy factory with a sticker on the screen to look like a child depiction of technology.

I keep thinking I am missing something here. I keep seeing hints that a stand alone is real and a Multi use is not. Is there a chip difference or proprietary license that entitles some kind of difference in the types of chips from either type? Stand Alone verses Multi Use. Both have the ability to find a location within 20 feet. Is just the Stand Alone one better at returning its location for a placement of a Cache even though both get you there?

Antenna and durability ...yes.

I am saying both are as good at locating (I have both, so I can say for sure) within acceptable Caching locations. Are we about to discriminate against a line of products and why?

This post has been edited by markstang: 26 August 2010 - 02:10 PM


#25 User is offline   scuba_2 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 01:10 PM

A real stand alone Gps usualy has a much bigger ceramic anttena and some of the components are more expensive (better quality higher tolerance )

I have however seen a two year old nokia phone with 3 feet accuracy it was a little larger that todays offerings.

#26 User is offline   dfx 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:02 PM

the "real" part refers to the device's intended use. a "real" (dedicated) GPS receiver is just that, a GPS receiver, while a phone or PDA can have an integrated GPS receiver (chip), but it will not be a GPS receiver (device). in the same sense that a phone can have an integrated camera, but it will never be a camera, as only cameras are cameras.

but this is really pointless semantics. a phone is not a camera and a phone is not a (real) GPS receiver - it's a phone. it might be able to do other things too, but it's still a phone. i don't see how anyone could feel offended by that.

and yes, a "real" GPS receiver with a better antenna is better at returning your location. otherwise, what would be the point of having a better antenna?

#27 User is offline   ecanderson 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:48 PM

I'm curious - do the apps for the iPhone even have an "Average Waypoint" feature? These days, the community expects someone placing a cache to use this feature even on a good "dedicated" device.

#28 User is offline   NordicMan 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:56 PM

As far as technology is concerned, there is absolutely no reason why a device that has a phone, camera, and PDA can't also have an awesome GPS receiver built in. But I guess if you are a manufacturer building the latest "smartphone" you are constrained to certain limitations.

Each component has to be TINY in order to have a complete package not be too bulky, and at the same time the whole thing needs to be powered by a battery that also needs to be tiny, so the handicaps probably start there.

Heck you could take a modern Nikon DSLR, and the latest Garmin GPSr, and a state-of-the art PDA & cellphone, and epoxy them all together into a lump & call it a smartphone & try to sell it is the best smartphone on the planet :laughing: but who would buy it?

#29 User is offline   markstang 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:10 PM

The devices intended use, is was it does and is when the App opens. You choose and it...is

HTC EVO

High Tech Computer

It is a computer. It has applications that do many things. Computing is its strong point. It has 512mb of RAM and 1 gig of ROM.

It is no more a phone than it is a movie player.

It is many things you want it to be.

A phone company does not make it. But it does Phone quite well. It takes High resolution videos. Much better than two of my video cameras. But not as good as my 8mm Sony.

If I put a picture taken with my Nikon SLR next to this one on the same setting you might me amazed. Remember the Nikon is a computer too, the lens makes better light however.

Have you used one for Caching? Or setting a Cache? Fair question considering I have done finds at 100% now that I know the game better. within 30 feet it is a brain game...isn't it. I could easily say for me it is within 10 feet so far in a clear sky.

I have actually used one though. just a note.

This post has been edited by markstang: 26 August 2010 - 05:13 PM


#30 User is offline   dfx 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 06:13 AM

View Postmarkstang, on Aug 26 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

HTC EVO

High Tech Computer

It is a computer.

so this is an airplane then, right? :laughing:

#31 User is offline   Aggrajag 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 06:17 AM

View Postecanderson, on Aug 26 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

I'm curious - do the apps for the iPhone even have an "Average Waypoint" feature? These days, the community expects someone placing a cache to use this feature even on a good "dedicated" device.


The Groundspeak App does not have an 'average' feature.

I think the GPS on the iPhone 4 is very good, it trounces my old 3g a hundred fold, but for PLACING caches I'd still always use a real GPSr.

For FINDING caches the iPhone 4 is plenty good enough - but I still prefer the GPSr as it's waterproof and more rugged. The iPhone only comes out when I need more info and/or Google!

#32 User is offline   Marky 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 06:54 AM

View Postmarkstang, on Aug 26 2010, 12:22 PM, said:

My Iphone reception (all 4 of them ) was horrible most of the time. But that has more to do with towers and location.

The GPS chip set in the iPhone doesn't need towers to function, it just needs a clear view of the satellites.

I'm also assuming that you've never tried an iPhone 4, so can't comment on how much better its GPS reception is compared to the 3GS and 3G (the original iPhone didn't have a GPS chip in it).

--Marky

#33 User is offline   Marky 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:00 AM

View Postbarn owl, on Aug 26 2010, 12:37 PM, said:

in my opinion, using iphones should be discouraged because they are not reliable. if someone wants to hide a cache, they need to use a real gps.

I don't have a problem with people using iPhones to find caches. However, due to their accuracy issues, I would like to discourage anyone hiding a cache from using their iPhone to determine the coordinates. Since the iPhone is a "real gps", I would rephrase it as: If you are going to hide a cache, you should use a gps with reliable accuracy, preferably one that averages waypoint readings.

--Marky

#34 User is offline   RRLover 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 03:15 PM

View Postdfx, on Aug 27 2010, 07:13 AM, said:

View Postmarkstang, on Aug 26 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

HTC EVO

High Tech Computer

It is a computer.

so this is an airplane then, right? :)

Well, . . . Saab does make a mean fighter, or @ least they used to.

Norm
(former owner/pilot(?) of a model 97(ninety seven, NOT nine-seven))
now lusting for a Land Rover 101 fc, my, how times change one!

This post has been edited by RRLover: 27 August 2010 - 03:20 PM


#35 User is offline   markstang 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

You are correct. I have not used an Iphone4.

Until a device is proved in accurate I would hope it could be used. I personally feel I am not experienced enough to record a Cache location until I have more time in this activity. The placements I have found so far are recorded very accurate. I seem to notice the more I have found the less I depend on my device when at the location. A couple of my finds have been genius level containers that far exceed a film type container. These are the ones I enjoy the most , the kind that you are sure are Not there and you feel like leaving and coming back again.

I have a GPS but am not sure where it is. Having Kids now and not using it for 5 years puts it somewhere in the attic category LOL.

Perhaps we could consider letting a Cache be placed (beta form) and have a local Cacher with a stand alone confirm the accuracy if a Cacher wanted to have his/her device pass accuracy. The multi devices have too many different manufactures to cluster them together.

Anyone with a GPS in Central Florida willing to let me do a "verification" Cache privately?
I live in the Clermont area.

#36 User is offline   Michael 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:15 PM

Separate the previous iPhones, the 3 series and the original, from the iPhone 4.

The iPhone GPS has a new chip in it. The BCM4750 Chip is faster and can track 24 sats at once.

• Single-chip solution—AGPS baseband and CMOS RF frontend
integrated on a single-die—minimizing board space
footprint (<35 sq mm2 PCB area for a complete AGPS
solution)
• Up to 2-Hz update rate
• Real-time hardware correlator engine (fast acquisition and
high-sensitivity) capable of tracking 24 satellites
simultaneously

• Built-in voltage regulators for easy power management
• Multiple mode operation
• MS-based (calculation of position in mobile handset)
• MS-assisted (calculation of position in base station)
Autonomous (no assistance by network)
• Enhanced autonomous (position computed at mobile device
using multi-day Long Term Orbits (LTO™)
• Advanced low-power RFCMOS technology and low-power
tracking at 13 mW for the longest battery life
• Host communication via two-wire UART, Philips® I2C, or SPI
with baud rates as low as 9.6 Kbps
• High-sensitivity, –157-dBm assisted acquisition sensitivity
(with coarse time assistance) and –162-dBm tracking
sensitivity, enabling indoor and deep urban operation
• Broadcom software provides protocol layers for control plane
(RRLP and RRC) as well as user plane (SUPL)
• Autonomous cold start TTFF 30 s
• Exceeds 3GPP TS 25.171 and 3GPP2 TS C.S0036
performance requirements

pictures are better than words.

Posted Image

When speaking of the iPhone the 3GS and before that are carp. The 4 has the same or better specs than my garmin colorado 400T. This is a real GPS and it works great.

Yes, I have a iPhone 4. I also have a 3G and a 3GS. I have seen the difference.

This post has been edited by Michael: 27 August 2010 - 05:18 PM


#37 User is offline   dfx 

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:52 PM

View PostMichael, on Aug 27 2010, 09:15 PM, said:

• Real-time hardware correlator engine (fast acquisition and
high-sensitivity) capable of tracking 24 satellites
simultaneously

which is really useless because you'll hardly ever see even only 12 satellites in the sky.

#38 User is offline   Michael 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:34 AM

View Postdfx, on Aug 27 2010, 05:52 PM, said:

View PostMichael, on Aug 27 2010, 09:15 PM, said:

• Real-time hardware correlator engine (fast acquisition and
high-sensitivity) capable of tracking 24 satellites
simultaneously

which is really useless because you'll hardly ever see even only 12 satellites in the sky.


That was my first impression. I talked to the Chip Manufacturer tech support and they pointed out that in order to be able to track 24 it has to be really fast. This improves its response, accuracy and speed of lock with fewer sats. He explained it much better than that one line. But bottom line is the more a chip can track the better job it does with the ones it can track.

This post has been edited by Michael: 28 August 2010 - 11:35 AM


#39 User is offline   Fetch! 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:47 AM

View Postscuba_2, on Aug 25 2010, 05:05 AM, said:

Iphone 4 gps is rubbish
tryed one this weekend it was out by 60 feet at best when standing still coords jump around alot
however tested ipad at same time it was good to 6 feet same as my gps!

this explains why I could not find any info on its accuracy of Iphone 4 gps on the net they did not want to tell you it is still rubish!
the antenna is just too small to be good.


Could I suggest holding the phone a different way. If you look around the antenna of the phone there are 'Ah's' which are the most sensitive part of the antenna (It also Uses cellular data masts).

If that doesnt work... Try:

1. Restarting (Turn it off and then back on)
2. Resetting (Press and hold both the Lock and the Home Button for 10-30 seconds)
3. Take it to your nearest apple retail store to a genius and explain... This sounds like an Apple problem and not a GC app one... Try the apple forums.

#40 User is offline   Fetch! 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 11:53 AM

View PostMichael, on Aug 27 2010, 05:15 PM, said:


Autonomous (no assistance by network)

When speaking of the iPhone the 3GS and before that are carp. The 4 has the same or better specs than my garmin colorado 400T. This is a real GPS and it works great.

Yes, I have a iPhone 4. I also have a 3G and a 3GS. I have seen the difference.


The Autonomous is a feature which you have to enable... It has been in iPhone 3G, 3GS and 4. But doesn't come 'switched on'... or so ive read

I totally agree about the difference also.

#41 User is offline   ecanderson 

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 07:17 PM

View PostAggrajag, on Aug 27 2010, 08:17 AM, said:

View Postecanderson, on Aug 26 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

I'm curious - do the apps for the iPhone even have an "Average Waypoint" feature? These days, the community expects someone placing a cache to use this feature even on a good "dedicated" device.


The Groundspeak App does not have an 'average' feature.
Well isn't that just spiffy? gc.com isn't even aware of the community's "best practices", or if they are, didn't make it part of the spec requirement for an application that they knew full well would be used to place caches? No wonder folks are having trouble. I wouldn't insult finders by taking a "snapshot" coordinate to place a cache with any of my Garmin handhelds, much less something with fairly common drift issues like the iPhone.

This post has been edited by ecanderson: 28 August 2010 - 07:17 PM


#42 User is offline   dfx 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:29 AM

View Postecanderson, on Aug 28 2010, 11:17 PM, said:

Well isn't that just spiffy? gc.com isn't even aware of the community's "best practices", or if they are, didn't make it part of the spec requirement for an application that they knew full well would be used to place caches?

it's because Groundspeak officially "doesn't support placing caches with the iphone app". of course people still do it by taking screenshots of the screen that shows the current coordinates.

#43 User is offline   ecanderson 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:27 AM

Quote

Quote

Well isn't that just spiffy? gc.com isn't even aware of the community's "best practices", or if they are, didn't make it part of the spec requirement for an application that they knew full well would be used to place caches?

it's because Groundspeak officially "doesn't support placing caches with the iphone app". of course people still do it by taking screenshots of the screen that shows the current coordinates.
Good grief. How difficult would it have been for them to add some code to do the Waypoint Averaging function properly? You start taking readings and you deal with standard deviation just like the Garmin units do and from that, you start to produce a "reliability" figure and either lock a reliable coordinate or don't. It ain't rocket science. It's simple math. If it turns out that the iPhone is unable at that moment and place to come up with a data set that demonstrates that it is capable of producing a coordinate within x feet of EPE, it should just say so and advise that the current conditions cannot produce a result. Instead, gc.com leaves the function out knowing full well what people are going to do.

#44 User is offline   Vertigo 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:17 PM

The OP has obviously never used a 3GS, 3G or any other phone with a GPS in it, because the iPhone 4 GPS is freakin incredible compared to the rest.

I've hardly had to even fire up my PN-40 since I got the iPhone 4.

#45 User is offline   rjjones00 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 09:03 PM

I have started placing this graphic on all of my new hides...

Posted Image

#46 User is offline   craigarnold 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 09:03 PM

All of my caches are hidden with my iPhone, because I honestly don't need a GPS. I use the maps app to drop a pin on where I am, then email it to myself so I can see the coords on Google Maps or Bing Maps, then adjust the numbers so it is in the relative location of where I hid the cache. Some people have commented on "the coordinates were bang on" etc. iPhone 3G

#47 User is offline   craigarnold 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 09:04 PM

View Postrjjones00, on Aug 29 2010, 09:03 PM, said:

I have started placing this graphic on all of my new hides...

[img]http://i120.photobuc...onefreecopy.jpg[img]



Should not be used in finding the cache? I can use whatever I want to find the cache what are you going to delete my log if I find it with my iPhone? Really?

#48 User is offline   henrysunset 

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 09:40 PM

Why doesn't the Geocaching site allow finders to contribute the coordinates of the cache as they saw on their device. Over time, the location could become more precise. If you had the finder describe the unit they leveraged to get the coordinate, we could have higher-accuracy units infulence the location more than lower-resolution units.

It would be trivial for them to partner with garmin and others with paperless caching to report the find location along with the find details.

---tom

#49 User is offline   TinkyTinks 

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  Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:11 AM

View Postrjjones00, on Aug 29 2010, 09:03 PM, said:

I have started placing this graphic on all of my new hides...

Posted Image



How utterly childess/petty/ridiculous!!!! What next 'no entry level yellow Garmin'?! No caching on a Wednesday? No caching without a degree in navigation?

Geocaching is a sport that is a DIFFERENT experience for everyone. Some seek out FTF's, some don't seek out nanos, some seek out coins, some seek out multi's, some seek out cache & dashes, for some it is a family day out, others it is their daily routine/life! Some are competitive, some do it occasionally, some use GPS units, some just use Google maps and some of us use iPhones. It is an individual CHOICE.

Firstly I appreciate the concern over iPhones but if it hadn't been for the iPhone, I would have got into geocaching. I wouldn't have bought a GPS unit to start a hobby that I might not even enjoy. The iPhone has introduced many new people to geocaching and that has to be a good thing. I can cache on a whim without having to worry about having a GPS with me and I don't need to carry any extra equipment.

I have used the 3GS and recently upgraded to the 4 and both have been extremely accurate in FINDING caches.

I do appreciate that the iPhone has it's limitations. Sometimes tree cover can be sketchy but I have still always managed to find caches in woods and the signal doesn't normally drop out for long.

PLACING caches is different. I have experienced problems with co-ords when placing caches in woods & I think this is where the real issue lies with using the iPhones so I do not feel that an iPhone is suitable for this in all places (though in fairness I have read reports that some entry level GPS units have sketchy tree cover too). Urban areas are possibly different because it is easy to cross-reference with Google maps. So people do need to be aware of this if thinking about placing caches with an iPhone and maybe this needs to be addressed by geocaching.com.

However I am totally pro-iPhone for geocaching finds and think that to place restrictions on 'who' can find it is small minded and just isn't in the spirit of geocaching. :ph34r:

#50 User is offline   dfx 

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 05:15 AM

View Postcraigarnold, on Aug 30 2010, 01:03 AM, said:

All of my caches are hidden with my iPhone, because I honestly don't need a GPS. I use the maps app to drop a pin on where I am, then email it to myself so I can see the coords on Google Maps or Bing Maps, then adjust the numbers so it is in the relative location of where I hid the cache.

so what are you saying here? the iphone is giving you wrong coordinates and then you trust google/bing to have properly aligned maps for getting the coordinates?

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