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Geocaching and the Bomb Squad

#1 User is offline   LizLake323 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:24 PM

This went down today http://laist.com/201...wn_geocache.php and a quick search of Geocaching and Bomb Squad brings up a TON of other similar stories.

One major concern in communities is the cost of resources it takes to deal with the situation.

Is anything being done on behalf of the Geocaching community to alert local agencies of our activities?

Maybe we could have an "Alert the police about Geocaching" day? Or orginize some sort of "reach out" program

If all it takes is a quick check to the website to maybe verify a geocache may be in the area. Or leave means for law enforcement to communicate with the hidder, Geocaching could avoid a lot of bad press.

Ideas?

#2 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:35 PM

If all it takes is this to get reported as a bomb, I'm afraid there isn't much we can do about it:
Posted Image

As you may have seen from your research, we have seen caches with and without permission, large and small, urban and rural, with and without explicit knowledge that it was a geocache... all blown to smitherines. We have seen events put on with LEO and bomb squads, with the main out-coming apparently being the LEOs and bomb squads telling us to label our containers (try labeling the one in the picture).

We have also seen some very positive out-comings in similar situations, so I am left scratching my head as to what, if anything, can really be done to prevent this.

Personally, however, I am one of many here that believe that the reported expense of these events is grossly exaggerated.

#3 User is offline   geodarts 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:39 PM

Downtown Disney? I recall many years ago when Disney security did not even want us sitting in a vacant lot of theirs around the park. Disney removed physical caches from the park as soon as they found out about them. And I cannot imagine that anyone would have ever given permission to place one "downtown."

So one way to avoid the bomb squad would not place caches on private property without permission. Although permission may not be enough to always keep the squad from being called, not placing caches without permission would go along way to avoiding this type of situation.

#4 User is offline   LizLake323 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:48 PM

I was thinking of sending a pamphlet and letter to our local agency. Too much?

#5 User is offline   WRASTRO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:54 PM

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

If all it takes is this to get reported as a bomb, I'm afraid there isn't much we can do about it:
Posted Image

As you may have seen from your research, we have seen caches with and without permission, large and small, urban and rural, with and without explicit knowledge that it was a geocache... all blown to smitherines. We have seen events put on with LEO and bomb squads, with the main out-coming apparently being the LEOs and bomb squads telling us to label our containers (try labeling the one in the picture).

We have also seen some very positive out-comings in similar situations, so I am left scratching my head as to what, if anything, can really be done to prevent this.

Personally, however, I am one of many here that believe that the reported expense of these events is grossly exaggerated.

Aren't the vast majority of Bomb squad and other responders being paid by the hour? And aren't they at work already? It seems to me the "cost" of these responses is overstated as it uses the per second cost of all those invloved in the response.

#6 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:56 PM

View PostTeamEdgar5, on 22 February 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

I was thinking of sending a pamphlet and letter to our local agency. Too much?
Can't hurt, probably won't help.

Once the alarm has been raised, the machine has been started, and no amount of logic is going to stop it, in all but the extremely rare situation.

We've seen posts where the finder was RIGHT THERE with the cops and the bomb squad, telling them what it was. No matter. KaBOOM!

And that is probably a good thing for all of us... err on the side of safety. I just don't like to see geocaching blamed for that response, because our experience has shown time and again that there is very little, if anything, that we can do to preempt it.

#7 User is offline   FishPOET 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:04 PM

24 geocachers found this geocache on Disney property before the bomb squad and said NOTHING.

#8 User is offline   GOF and Bacall 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:05 PM

I thought caches at Disney where banned? Where was this cache listed?

#9 User is offline   WRASTRO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:14 PM

View PostTeamEdgar5, on 22 February 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

This went down today http://laist.com/201...wn_geocache.php and a quick search of Geocaching and Bomb Squad brings up a TON of other similar stories.

One major concern in communities is the cost of resources it takes to deal with the situation.

Is anything being done on behalf of the Geocaching community to alert local agencies of our activities?

Maybe we could have an "Alert the police about Geocaching" day? Or orginize some sort of "reach out" program

If all it takes is a quick check to the website to maybe verify a geocache may be in the area. Or leave means for law enforcement to communicate with the hidder, Geocaching could avoid a lot of bad press.

Ideas?

If the local law enforcement folks do not know anything about geocaching after it has been active in the USA for more than ten years I would suggest we need to be a little bit concerned.

#10 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:19 PM

View PostWRASTRO, on 22 February 2011 - 08:14 PM, said:

If the local law enforcement folks do not know anything about geocaching after it has been active in the USA for more than ten years I would suggest we need to be a little bit concerned.

I totally agree, and have been saying such for several years now. Does it take them this long to learn about new designer drugs? New con games/scams? I sure hope not!

#11 User is offline   Keystone 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:24 PM

In other news, something else went down today. A cache was re-enabled at the conclusion of a bridge reconstruction project. Pretty boring and ordinary, huh? :tired: True, unless one also reads the following log left by a person as their very first geocache find, right before construction commenced:

Quote

This bridge is in the process of being replaced by the Department of Transportation. I am the inspector on the project and currently have the cache in my possession. The project is scheduled for completion Nov.15,2010, at which time I will replace the cache and post the new coordinates.


I think that is pretty cool. B) The problem is, the cool stuff doesn't make the evening news - only bad stuff. Don't forget about the cool stuff that good people do, and try to do something cool yourself when you can. :)

#12 User is offline   Sol seaker 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:24 PM

The police have actually come on these forums and requested that everyone MARK their containers.

I contacted my local police and asked them if they wanted me to come talk to them about geocaching. The woman said she'd get back to me and never did.

All officers get a free geocaching account. I don't know how many actually know that.

If they have a local person to contact before they go blow things up it would be good; someone who has found all of the caches in the area, so they know right away if it's legit or not.

After the officer was on these forums and asking us to mark caches, I carried a sharpie around with me for a while. I don't know if it bothered anyone, but I thought it was good, especially when I found one at an electrical junction. That one really needed marking. (Major electrical spot)

If caching groups regularly contacted the local police with offers of information it might be good.
But then again it might bug them. :P

#13 User is offline   WRASTRO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:26 PM

View PostKeystone, on 22 February 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

In other news, something else went down today. A cache was re-enabled at the conclusion of a bridge reconstruction project. Pretty boring and ordinary, huh? :tired: True, unless one also reads the following log left by a person as their very first geocache find, right before construction commenced:

Quote

This bridge is in the process of being replaced by the Department of Transportation. I am the inspector on the project and currently have the cache in my possession. The project is scheduled for completion Nov.15,2010, at which time I will replace the cache and post the new coordinates.


I think that is pretty cool. B) The problem is, the cool stuff doesn't make the evening news - only bad stuff. Don't forget about the cool stuff that good people do, and try to do something cool yourself when you can. :)

+ 1 to the many. :D

#14 User is offline   GOF and Bacall 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:26 PM

View PostKeystone, on 22 February 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

In other news, something else went down today. A cache was re-enabled at the conclusion of a bridge reconstruction project. Pretty boring and ordinary, huh? :tired: True, unless one also reads the following log left by a person as their very first geocache find, right before construction commenced:

Quote

This bridge is in the process of being replaced by the Department of Transportation. I am the inspector on the project and currently have the cache in my possession. The project is scheduled for completion Nov.15,2010, at which time I will replace the cache and post the new coordinates.


I think that is pretty cool. B) The problem is, the cool stuff doesn't make the evening news - only bad stuff. Don't forget about the cool stuff that good people do, and try to do something cool yourself when you can. :)


That is very cool!

#15 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.

#16 User is offline   WRASTRO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:42 PM

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.


I guess I don't get what you think is funny about the date. :blink:

#17 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:43 PM

View PostFishPOET, on 22 February 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

24 geocachers found this geocache on Disney property before the bomb squad and said NOTHING.


Gotta link by any chance? I'm on the east coast, and I remember it was February 2005 that there was a security incident at Disney World, and they requested all physical caches be removed at the Florida location, and no more ever placed. Did this same incident result in the no caches rule at Disneyland also? Because there are no physical caches there, and this should have never been published.

#18 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:48 PM

View PostWRASTRO, on 22 February 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.


I guess I don't get what you think is funny about the date. :blink:


Did I miss something? If so, I apologize. What I saw was something that happened TODAY, Feb 24, 2011.

Quote

This bridge is in the process of being replaced by the Department of Transportation. I am the inspector on the project and currently have the cache in my possession. The project is scheduled for completion Nov.15,2010, at which time I will replace the cache and post the new coordinates.


What am I missing?

#19 User is offline   benh57 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:50 PM

View PostMr.Yuck, on 22 February 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

View PostFishPOET, on 22 February 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

24 geocachers found this geocache on Disney property before the bomb squad and said NOTHING.


Gotta link by any chance? I'm on the east coast, and I remember it was February 2005 that there was a security incident at Disney World, and they requested all physical caches be removed at the Florida location, and no more ever placed. Did this same incident result in the no caches rule at Disneyland also? Because there are no physical caches there, and this should have never been published.



Today's cache incident was apparently the final for the famous 50 states challenge cache, placed in 2005.

http://coord.info/GCRFNN

I always suspected it was on Disney property from the log photos.

#20 User is offline   Keystone 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:50 PM

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.

You missed my point. There are plenty of LEO's, bridge inspectors and mall cops who know about geocaching and are cool with it, in part because of good publicity like CITO events, tourism bureau promotions, and educational efforts that have been undertaken for years by geocachers at the local level.

As for the November 15 date, when was the last time that a state highway department brought in a job on time and on budget? :lol:

#21 User is offline   M 5 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:51 PM

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:48 PM, said:

View PostWRASTRO, on 22 February 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.


I guess I don't get what you think is funny about the date. :blink:


Did I miss something? If so, I apologize. What I saw was something that happened TODAY, Feb 24, 2011.

Quote

This bridge is in the process of being replaced by the Department of Transportation. I am the inspector on the project and currently have the cache in my possession. The project is scheduled for completion Nov.15,2010, at which time I will replace the cache and post the new coordinates.


What am I missing?

today is feb. 24th?

#22 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:56 PM

View PostKeystone, on 22 February 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

As for the November 15 date, when was the last time that a state highway department brought in a job on time and on budget? :lol:
Fair enough.

#23 User is offline   WRASTRO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:58 PM

View PostM 5, on 22 February 2011 - 08:51 PM, said:

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:48 PM, said:

View PostWRASTRO, on 22 February 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.


I guess I don't get what you think is funny about the date. :blink:


Did I miss something? If so, I apologize. What I saw was something that happened TODAY, Feb 24, 2011.

Quote

This bridge is in the process of being replaced by the Department of Transportation. I am the inspector on the project and currently have the cache in my possession. The project is scheduled for completion Nov.15,2010, at which time I will replace the cache and post the new coordinates.


What am I missing?

today is feb. 24th?

What planet are you on? It is only the 22nd here on the left coast of the US of A.

#24 User is offline   LizLake323 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:59 PM

View PostWRASTRO, on 22 February 2011 - 08:14 PM, said:

View PostTeamEdgar5, on 22 February 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

This went down today http://laist.com/201...wn_geocache.php and a quick search of Geocaching and Bomb Squad brings up a TON of other similar stories.

One major concern in communities is the cost of resources it takes to deal with the situation.

Is anything being done on behalf of the Geocaching community to alert local agencies of our activities?

Maybe we could have an "Alert the police about Geocaching" day? Or orginize some sort of "reach out" program

If all it takes is a quick check to the website to maybe verify a geocache may be in the area. Or leave means for law enforcement to communicate with the hidder, Geocaching could avoid a lot of bad press.

Ideas?

If the local law enforcement folks do not know anything about geocaching after it has been active in the USA for more than ten years I would suggest we need to be a little bit concerned.


Well, it is the LAPD. A nudge in the right direction might not hurt!

This post has been edited by TeamEdgar5: 22 February 2011 - 09:00 PM


#25 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:00 PM

View PostKeystone, on 22 February 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

You missed my point. There are plenty of LEO's, bridge inspectors and mall cops who know about geocaching and are cool with it, in part because of good publicity like CITO events, tourism bureau promotions, and educational efforts that have been undertaken for years by geocachers at the local level.
And as to that point... I don't mean to minimize it, but the fact is that we still have a recognition issue amongst law enforcement officials after ten years of existence, and as a citizen, I find that incomprehensible and a bit scary that after ten years of anything they are not 100% aware of it.

#26 User is offline   Mr. Wilson & a Mt. Goat 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:09 PM

Are there any news videos about this incident?

#27 User is offline   geodarts 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:18 PM

This 2002 post from Mouse Planet is rather prophetic:

If I understand the concept of geocaches correctly, placing one inside Disneyland would require permission and cooperation from Disney. I suppose you could "hide" a package on property someplace, but I have visions of the bomb squad being called out to detonate the "mysterious object found at Disneyland."


Apart from this, there is some interesting information in that thread about caching in the park. I still can't believe that someone thought placing a cache on Disney property was a good idea.

#28 User is offline   RainbowKat 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:27 PM

View PostTeamEdgar5, on 22 February 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

Maybe we could have an "Alert the police about Geocaching" day?


All I can say about this is that while it would probably be a good idea in general, in some backwards towns like my own it might backfire. The Indiana Ghost Trackers had been quietly visiting cemeteries around my area at night for years, when some newbie decided to ask the police or mayor's permission. The permission was denied and it brought a lot more scrutiny on the group's behavior. Fortunately they were a good group and didn't litter or vandalize. (Full disclosure, I only ever went on 1 ghost hunt.)

#29 User is offline   GOF and Bacall 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:54 AM

Does anyone know what cache it was or where it was listed?

#30 User is offline   webscouter. 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 03:35 AM

Permission issues aside it never ceases to amaze me that a bison tube gets mistaken for a bomb.

#31 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:29 AM

View PostGOF and Bacall, on 23 February 2011 - 01:54 AM, said:

Does anyone know what cache it was or where it was listed?


See this post you must have missed it.

Well, this was Florida, and I don't have the link for the cache that caused the bomb scare because I haven't found it, and can't find the archived listing, but it happened Feb. 2005, and the reviewer receieved the "no more physical caches" order in late March, 2005 I assume this applied to Disneyland too. This cache was placed November, 2005.

Cripes, find all 50 States to find a match holder? I hope at least it wasn't an LPC. :lol:

#32 User is offline   northernpenguin 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:48 AM

View PostMr.Yuck, on 23 February 2011 - 05:29 AM, said:



Cripes, find all 50 States to find a match holder? I hope at least it wasn't an LPC. :lol:


The photo used in that story was not a photo of the actual cache. That photo was taken by Teamvoyagr an Ontario, Canada cacher and it does not mention being taken in California.

#33 User is offline   Singletree Expedition 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:06 AM

View Postmulvaney, on 22 February 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Downtown Disney? I recall many years ago when Disney security did not even want us sitting in a vacant lot of theirs around the park. Disney removed physical caches from the park as soon as they found out about them.


View PostGOF and Bacall, on 22 February 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

I thought caches at Disney where banned? Where was this cache listed?


FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee.

#34 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:06 AM

View Postnorthernpenguin, on 23 February 2011 - 05:48 AM, said:

View PostMr.Yuck, on 23 February 2011 - 05:29 AM, said:



Cripes, find all 50 States to find a match holder? I hope at least it wasn't an LPC. :lol:


The photo used in that story was not a photo of the actual cache. That photo was taken by Teamvoyagr an Ontario, Canada cacher and it does not mention being taken in California.



Oh yes, I see. It wouldn't be unusual for the media to just grab a picture of any old micro cache off the internets.

Also, unfortunately, not unusual to see local cachers yuking it up over a bomb squad call on a cache page. :unsure:

#35 User is offline   sbell111 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:12 AM

View PostMr.Yuck, on 23 February 2011 - 05:29 AM, said:

Well, this was Florida, and I don't have the link for the cache that caused the bomb scare because I haven't found it, and can't find the archived listing, but it happened Feb. 2005, and the reviewer receieved the "no more physical caches" order in late March, 2005 I assume this applied to Disneyland too. This cache was placed November, 2005.
2/05 is when the official word came down, but the ball started rolling when this really fun cache inside Disneyland sparked a visit from the bomb squad.

#36 User is offline   Walts Hunting 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:15 AM

[/quote]
Aren't the vast majority of Bomb squad and other responders being paid by the hour? And aren't they at work already? It seems to me the "cost" of these responses is overstated as it uses the per second cost of all those invloved in the response.
[/quote]

Actually the cost is quite high. I ran Special Operations (which included bomb squad) for a major city for two years. The bomb squad works a 4 or 5 day week (depending on whether they are on a 10 hour day or not). So if the response is at night or on a weekend they (and all their equipment) respond on a time and half basis. In less densely populated areas the only bomb squad may be the county sheriff and they work the same mentioned schedule and respond as needed. As you get further down the population density pole you will find large areas without a dedicated bomb squad and the officers do regular duties most of the time instead of being dedicated. If they are off duty they come in on overtime.

Then there's the support staff, officers to cut off traffic, evacuate areas, exercise command and control plus a myriad of tasks that go with a call.

Having signed the OT cards for years I can tell you that a bomb call is very expensive. The bomb squad guys can easily double their base salary in OT each year. Oh, and my city has a very large chinese population so Chinese New Years is very profitable.

Lastly when they submit an event cost sheet it includes the cost for on duty officers as well based on the assumption that they would be doing other duties if not for this so they are a cost factor.

This post has been edited by Walts Hunting: 23 February 2011 - 06:29 AM


#37 User is offline   sbell111 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:21 AM

View PostSingletree Expedition, on 23 February 2011 - 06:06 AM, said:

View Postmulvaney, on 22 February 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Downtown Disney? I recall many years ago when Disney security did not even want us sitting in a vacant lot of theirs around the park. Disney removed physical caches from the park as soon as they found out about them.


View PostGOF and Bacall, on 22 February 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

I thought caches at Disney where banned? Where was this cache listed?


FWIW to those that may not realize, Downtown Disney is not in the park. It's a strip of dining, shopping, and entertainment venues and is open to the public without a fee.
Disney banned all physical caches on property, not just those within teh actual theme parks.

#38 User is offline   GeoGeeBee 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:47 AM

In a world where even a kid's stuffed pony can be blown up by the bomb squad, I don't think there is anything geocachers can do to prevent an occasional ka-boom.

http://freerangekids...-by-bomb-squad/

#39 User is offline   ventura_kids 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:28 AM

http://coord.info/GCRFNN

This was the puzzle cache. It's been there for years....but that certainly doesn't make it a good choice for placement.

#40 User is offline   BlueRajah 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:36 AM

We got together with a bomb squad that covers a large area of our state and had an event.

They love to show off their stuff and do PR. The organizer spent some time with the bomb squad to tailor it to us, and a discussion went out about what to avoid, labeling for us, and for them we got them info on checking on geocaching.com, with reviewers, the lilypad, or local cachers.

It was a learning experience for everyone. A few photos from the event.

Every squad is different. They will approach things a little differently based on their equipment.

When in doubt.. they will blow it apart.

#41 User is offline   Walts Hunting 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:44 AM

View PostRainbowKat, on 22 February 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:

View PostTeamEdgar5, on 22 February 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

Maybe we could have an "Alert the police about Geocaching" day?


All I can say about this is that while it would probably be a good idea in general, in some backwards towns like my own it might backfire. The Indiana Ghost Trackers had been quietly visiting cemeteries around my area at night for years, when some newbie decided to ask the police or mayor's permission. The permission was denied and it brought a lot more scrutiny on the group's behavior. Fortunately they were a good group and didn't litter or vandalize. (Full disclosure, I only ever went on 1 ghost hunt.)


Good comment. I have always subscribed to the belief that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. There is a natural instinct in public employees to say no.

#42 User is offline   Chief301 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:46 AM

Quote

You missed my point. There are plenty of LEO's, bridge inspectors and mall cops who know about geocaching and are cool with it, in part because of good publicity like CITO events, tourism bureau promotions, and educational efforts that have been undertaken for years by geocachers at the local level.



You're still missing the point. The average law enforcement officer may know about geocaching and be cool with it. But further up the food chain are the powers that be that sign his check. At that level official policies are generated, steered by an army of lawyers and consultants intent on eliminating legal liability for the city and the police department. Yes, the cop on the street knows it's a geocache. The bomb squad knows it's a geocache. The incident commander knows it's a geocache. The cache owner standing right there at the scene telling them with absolute certainty that it's a geocache and he knows what's in it and will gladly walk over there and get it for you and show you what's in it, knows it's a geocache. And the Powers That Be know it's a geocache, but NOBODY is going to go against established policy because exercising a little common sense and ignoring procedures can cost you your job nowadays. And no one in a position to dictate policy is going to change it in the extremely remote, one-in-a-billion chance that some mad bomber one day might decide that labeling his bomb "Official Geocache" would be a good way to escape suspicion. :mad:

#43 User is offline   geodarts 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:01 AM

View PostGeoGeeBee, on 23 February 2011 - 06:47 AM, said:

In a world where even a kid's stuffed pony can be blown up by the bomb squad, I don't think there is anything geocachers can do to prevent an occasional ka-boom.


Probably not. But as has been suggested, obtaining permission before leaving containers on someone else's property and labeling them accordingly would help by reducing placements where caches are not welcome and give at least some cover if the squad is called out.

Closing part of downtown disney (yes, I realize it is disney property that is outside the theme park) could not have made people happy. Just like closing a major highway for two hours just north of where I live did not exactly put the game in the best light. There are things we can do to reduce perceived liability even if it still goes ka-boom.

#44 User is offline   alanfreed 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:05 AM

Doesn't this all seem like another reason to be concerned about Garmin's new caching site? As I understand it, there's no review process at all on that site, meaning that anyone can stick a cache anywhere and list it. And that sort of thing can only lead to more incidents like this one. If there's a similar incident with one of their listed caches and it's reported that the item was a "Geocache," it's going to hurt this site more than Garmin's, even if it wasn't listed here.

I have had the Disney 50 States cache on my watch list for a long time (I'm only missing Oregon and Nebraska), and I've always been surprised that their local reviewer allowed it to be placed anywhere near a Disney property. Part of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the person who reviewed that placement in the first place. I would be very surprised if our local reviewer would have permitted it, unless the owner had provided explicit proof that he had obtained permission.

#45 User is offline   Mr.Yuck 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 09:46 AM

View Postalanfreed, on 23 February 2011 - 08:05 AM, said:

Doesn't this all seem like another reason to be concerned about Garmin's new caching site? As I understand it, there's no review process at all on that site, meaning that anyone can stick a cache anywhere and list it. And that sort of thing can only lead to more incidents like this one. If there's a similar incident with one of their listed caches and it's reported that the item was a "Geocache," it's going to hurt this site more than Garmin's, even if it wasn't listed here.


No, because SwineFlew, the guy who posted the now infamous SBA on the South Pole cache, makes sure nothing gets published on the Garmin Site. :ph34r:

Quote

I have had the Disney 50 States cache on my watch list for a long time (I'm only missing Oregon and Nebraska), and I've always been surprised that their local reviewer allowed it to be placed anywhere near a Disney property. Part of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the person who reviewed that placement in the first place. I would be very surprised if our local reviewer would have permitted it, unless the owner had provided explicit proof that he had obtained permission.


Yeah, it probably slipped through the cracks. I was around in 2005, and they certainly didn't have the hidden waypoints feature for the final coordinates to a challenge/puzzle/mystery/multi cache.

#46 User is offline   tvchick 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 02:38 PM

Quote

Yeah, it probably slipped through the cracks. I was around in 2005, and they certainly didn't have the hidden waypoints feature for the final coordinates to a challenge/puzzle/mystery/multi cache.


I was wondering about that. I'm still relatively new to geocaching, so even though I'd seen that little question mark icon near the park, I assumed there was no way in (wherever all Disney villains go when they get offed) that this physical cache was actually on Disney property. Including Downtown Disney! When I was explaining geocaching to my friends while we were at Disneyland, they commented that the park must be an awesome place to hide caches. And I said, "No, that's just a bad idea. I feel suspicious enough at those lamp posts, how bad would that look at Disneyland?"

So, as soon as this published on the Internet -- I work about 3-4 miles away from Disneyland and have the annual pass, natch -- you can imagine how many of my muggle friends (who regularly jest about my newfound hobby) sent it to me. I have to admit, it made me sad for a good part of the day. I read in the LA Times article on this that the last time they'd shut down Downtown Disney to that extent was for September 11th. Maybe it's just me, but even that tiniest of connections was truly upsetting and disheartening to me. :sad:

Le sigh.

#47 User is offline   FireRef 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 02:57 PM

As much as I disagree with some of the issues raised here, I think that we have to respect Disney's request not to have physical caches placed. Hence, another good reason for the return of virtuals.

On a side note, we had a cache in the Erie, Pa area that was blown up by the bomb squad. It was hidden outside the police department in a local municipality outside of Erie, with the Police Chief's permission. So even when the person in charge of the department gave permission and knew about it, one of his officers didn't, and this caused a pretty big incident (and a pretty embarrassed officer, I would imagine).

Also, on one more side note - I am a member of the HazMat team for our county - other than fuel and other related vehicle use expenses, we don't get paid, so there is no additional manpower cost. Bomb squads would be more likely to be paid, so would be more likely to incur additional manpower expenses, and that is usually where the big cost comes in.

Also, how can swineflu keep anything from being published over there, if he doesn't run the site?

Edited to add hazmat and swineflu comments - which taken out of context, sound much more medical than they are!

This post has been edited by FireRef: 23 February 2011 - 03:01 PM


#48 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 03:04 PM

I wonder how long it will be before Disney starts hiding their own caches in their parks. Except they'll probably call them "Mickeys".

#49 User is offline   BlueNacho 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 03:12 PM

View PostKeystone, on 22 February 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

View Postknowschad, on 22 February 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nov.15, 2010? :lol: OK... typo, I'm sure.

Still... while they do provide some needed perspective, those positive stories do not negate the stories of caches blown up by bomb squads. There is still a problem that would be nice to be able to resolve.

You missed my point. There are plenty of LEO's, bridge inspectors and mall cops who know about geocaching and are cool with it, in part because of good publicity like CITO events, tourism bureau promotions, and educational efforts that have been undertaken for years by geocachers at the local level.

As for the November 15 date, when was the last time that a state highway department brought in a job on time and on budget? :lol:



The mall cops in my area know about caching but they aren't cool about it. If you find it and they find you, it's their's. If you don't find it and they find you, they send in guys to take it anyways. The only reason there are still caches there is because the security never had the time to tell the reviewer to stop. They have, however, never called in the bomb squad as far as I know. When one cache got LEO-muggled the LEO said "Management says it's just a treasure hunt".

#50 User is offline   knowschad 

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 03:24 PM

View PostBlueNacho, on 23 February 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

The mall cops in my area know about caching but they aren't cool about it. If you find it and they find you, it's their's. If you don't find it and they find you, they send in guys to take it anyways. The only reason there are still caches there is because the security never had the time to tell the reviewer to stop. They have, however, never called in the bomb squad as far as I know. When one cache got LEO-muggled the LEO said "Management says it's just a treasure hunt".

Wouldn't it behoove the local cachers to notify the reviewer, then? Seems to me that would be the responsible thing to do.

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