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TRAIL OF HEROES LONDON

#1 User is offline   The Brat Pack 

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:57 PM

Ref: TRAIL OF HEROES LONDON Series of caches

This has caused a lot of furore, particularly with Dutch cachers for some reasons. Can anybody explain what this is all about and what the issues are? It is not clear from the cache pages why these are commercial caches.

#2 User is offline   abiherts 

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:03 PM

What Gc's are they? Can you post a link?

#3 User is offline   Andalusite 

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:20 PM

It is a worldwide(ish) promotion/adventure/challenge involving geocaching being run by Timberland with the full approval of Groundspeak (the caches were placed by local cachers and were published by Miss Jenn).

For details of the 'Trail of Heroes' clicky here.

Apparently some Dutch (and German) cachers either hadn't seen the "placed with the permission of Groundspeak" tag on the cache listings or were unaware of the the portion of the guidelines that states;

"On very rare occasions, Groundspeak makes an exception for a commercial cache. Arrangements are made before placement. If your cache is commercial in any way, please contact Groundspeak for clarification about how to comply with cache listing guidelines."

Hope this helps and happy hunting,


Andalusite

This post has been edited by Andalusite: 28 March 2011 - 11:21 PM


#4 User is offline   *mouse* 

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:57 PM

Shame is seems to be so London-centric.

Would have been interested in having a go in the competition, but a train ticket to the capital is more than the cost of a pair of new boots for me! Might as well just go treat myself to the new pair of Teva's I've had my eye on!!!! LOL!

#5 User is offline   MartyBartfast 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:17 AM

The thing that strikes me is it hasn't been particularly well advertised, perhaps if it had then there wouldn't be so much confusion.

#6 User is offline   Team Noodles 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:25 AM

edit - nevermind, not even going to bother.

This post has been edited by Team Noodles: 29 March 2011 - 12:29 AM


#7 User is offline   keehotee 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:29 AM

View PostTeam Noodles, on 29 March 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:


well done, does that mean my PM will be a little bit cheaper next year?


Of course - it'll give you exactly the same discount you got when GS gave Garmin the opportunity to hand out some free GPSes the year before last. :D
GS are a commercial company - are you a share holder? I can't see any other reason they'd give you a share of their profit.... :rolleyes:

#8 User is offline   Delta68 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:52 AM

Have the cache pages been edited or something?
Seems strange that there's no reference to the competition...




Mark

#9 User is offline   Team Professor X 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:28 AM

These boots are made walking and they walk all over YOU :ph34r: !

You keep saying you've got something for me.
something you call love, but confess.
You've been messin'
where you shouldn't have been a messin'
and now someone else is gettin' all your best.

These boots are made for walking,
and that's just what they'll do
one of these days these boots
are gonna walk all over you.

You keep lying,
When you oughta be truthin'
and you keep losin' when you oughta not bet.
You keep samin' when you oughta be changin'.
Now what's right is right, but you ain't been right yet.

These boots are made for walking,
and that's just what they'll do
one of these days these boots
are gonna walk all over you.

You keep playin' where you shouldn't be playin
and you keep thinkin' that you´ll never get burnt.
Ha! I just found me a brand new
box of matches yeah
and what he know
you ain't had time to learn.

These boots are made for walking,
and that's just what they'll do
one of these days these boots
are gonna walk all over you.

Are you ready boots? Start walkin'!

#10 User is offline   keehotee 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:39 AM

View PostTeam Professor X, on 29 March 2011 - 01:28 AM, said:

These boots are made walking and they walk all over YOU :ph34r: !



D**n - now I've got Nancy Sinatra singing in a Goldmember Dutch accent spinning round in my head.... :laughing:

#11 User is offline   The Brat Pack 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:40 AM

View PostMartyBartfast, on 29 March 2011 - 12:17 AM, said:

The thing that strikes me is it hasn't been particularly well advertised, perhaps if it had then there wouldn't be so much confusion.


I think this is the issue - one of communication. I am sure that members of the Groundspeak community would be less concerned if this had been better communicated to it's Members. It is similar to the Jeep link-up a few years back and the more recent Gamin UK geocoins although they were trackables rather than caches. I know there is good word of mouth communication through the various Forums but it would have been nice to have had some upfront notification - it is not as if Groundspeak do not have our e-mail addresses!

#12 User is offline   The Brat Pack 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:49 AM

"Once you’ve found all 4 Hero ID codes and logged them on the “Enter Hero ID’s” page, we’ll send you an email about the next steps to claim your prize so make sure you check your inbox"

The problem is that there are only four caches set up in each of London, Milan, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam and Paris so if one goes missing you can no longer play without clocking up some extreme air miles as you need to find all four! Seems a lot of hassle for a new icon!

#13 User is offline   The Blorenges 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:58 AM

View PostThe Brat Pack, on 29 March 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

"Once you’ve found all 4 Hero ID codes and logged them on the “Enter Hero ID’s” page, we’ll send you an email about the next steps to claim your prize so make sure you check your inbox"

The problem is that there are only four caches set up in each of London, Milan, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam and Paris so if one goes missing you can no longer play without clocking up some extreme air miles as you need to find all four! Seems a lot of hassle for a new icon!



New icon? :blink: I haven't seen one mentioned... but maybe a pair of yellow boots would look nice. :D

As the caches have had the green light from Groundspeak, I think it would be a good idea if the cache owner mentioned the prize competition on the cache pages.


MrsB

#14 User is offline   The Brat Pack 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:16 AM

View PostThe Blorenges, on 29 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

View PostThe Brat Pack, on 29 March 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

"Once you’ve found all 4 Hero ID codes and logged them on the “Enter Hero ID’s” page, we’ll send you an email about the next steps to claim your prize so make sure you check your inbox"

The problem is that there are only four caches set up in each of London, Milan, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam and Paris so if one goes missing you can no longer play without clocking up some extreme air miles as you need to find all four! Seems a lot of hassle for a new icon!



New icon? :blink: I haven't seen one mentioned... but maybe a pair of yellow boots would look nice. :D

As the caches have had the green light from Groundspeak, I think it would be a good idea if the cache owner mentioned the prize competition on the cache pages.


MrsB

This post has been edited by The Brat Pack: 29 March 2011 - 02:18 AM


#15 User is offline   The Brat Pack 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:17 AM

View PostThe Blorenges, on 29 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

View PostThe Brat Pack, on 29 March 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

"Once you’ve found all 4 Hero ID codes and logged them on the “Enter Hero ID’s” page, we’ll send you an email about the next steps to claim your prize so make sure you check your inbox"

The problem is that there are only four caches set up in each of London, Milan, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam and Paris so if one goes missing you can no longer play without clocking up some extreme air miles as you need to find all four! Seems a lot of hassle for a new icon!



New icon? :blink: I haven't seen one mentioned... but maybe a pair of yellow boots would look nice. :D

As the caches have had the green light from Groundspeak, I think it would be a good idea if the cache owner mentioned the prize competition on the cache pages.

MrsB


It shows as a new icon on the Map on the Timberland Page but it does not appear that recent finders have got any new icon. Perhaps they will get a Timberland Souvenir!

#16 User is offline   *mouse* 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:21 AM

View PostThe Brat Pack, on 29 March 2011 - 01:40 AM, said:

View PostMartyBartfast, on 29 March 2011 - 12:17 AM, said:

The thing that strikes me is it hasn't been particularly well advertised, perhaps if it had then there wouldn't be so much confusion.


I think this is the issue - one of communication. I am sure that members of the Groundspeak community would be less concerned if this had been better communicated to it's Members. It is similar to the Jeep link-up a few years back and the more recent Gamin UK geocoins although they were trackables rather than caches. I know there is good word of mouth communication through the various Forums but it would have been nice to have had some upfront notification - it is not as if Groundspeak do not have our e-mail addresses!


You need to remember that most Groundspeak sanctioned competitions are about introducing new players to the game - this one seems no different. So of course there hasn't been much promotion to existing cachers. We're already playing the game!

I agree more communication would have probably prevented the anti-commercial comments, but Groundspeak might not have predicted such a response from the community....

#17 User is offline   Amberel 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:23 AM

View PostThe Blorenges, on 29 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

As the caches have had the green light from Groundspeak, I think it would be a good idea if the cache owner mentioned the prize competition on the cache pages.
The whole thing appears to be organised in a rather strange way, and much of it is very badly worded. For example, it says "You will therefore need to travel to London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Madrid, and Milan in order to participate", whereas I'm sure they mean "London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Madrid, OR Milan", which is very different.

It says you have to log on to Groundspeak and create a new basic membership. Does this mean the competition is limited to new members only? It seems possible to me that an existing membership also qualifies, but it would be better if this was more clearly worded.

And a pretty major point, which is tucked away in the T&C, is that the competition is only open to those who have received a personal invitation from Timberland or one of their agents, which invitation contains an individual "blogger code" (whatever that is). I have received no such invitation. It's not clear how you go about getting such an invitation, or even if it's possible to influence whether or not you get an invitation. This is rather strange for what purports to be a promotional activity!

Rgds, Andy

This post has been edited by Amberel: 29 March 2011 - 02:25 AM


#18 User is offline   Andalusite 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:46 AM

I have asked for clarification on what a 'bloggers code' is and how you get one, but since it is currently 4AM in Seattle it may take a wee while...


Regards

Andalusite

#19 User is offline   Munkeh 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:08 AM

View PostThe Blorenges, on 29 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

View PostThe Brat Pack, on 29 March 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

"Once you’ve found all 4 Hero ID codes and logged them on the “Enter Hero ID’s” page, we’ll send you an email about the next steps to claim your prize so make sure you check your inbox"

The problem is that there are only four caches set up in each of London, Milan, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam and Paris so if one goes missing you can no longer play without clocking up some extreme air miles as you need to find all four! Seems a lot of hassle for a new icon!



New icon? :blink: I haven't seen one mentioned... but maybe a pair of yellow boots would look nice. :D

As the caches have had the green light from Groundspeak, I think it would be a good idea if the cache owner mentioned the prize competition on the cache pages.


MrsB


they'd be too big for you :P

#20 User is offline   team tisri 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:23 AM

For what it's worth things aren't looking promising for one of the London caches.

Three of them were definitely still there around lunchtime today. The one on Wandsworth Common now has 4 DNFs against it and no finds. The coordinates point to the middle of a gorse bush.

It may be there but given the other three were easy finds with coordinates accurate to within about 20 feet (the worst case was when my GPS pointed me at one object and the object I needed was the next one along) I'm wondering if it's gone walkies already.

#21 User is offline   Dorsetgal & GeoDog 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:10 PM

It's a very small window of opoortunity from 28th March to 10th April.

Clearly they don't give a d-a-m-n about accessible caching as all four in London are terrain 1.5 - Timberland, wheelchair users buy your gear too you know!

Groundspeak - wheelchair users pay for membership too.

Now very inclusive if you ask me - in fact not inclusive at all.

This post has been edited by Dorsetgal & GeoDog: 29 March 2011 - 12:12 PM


#22 User is offline   Dorsetgal & GeoDog 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:16 PM

Miss Jenn - were there any terrain considerations given before publication?

#23 User is offline   LinseyG 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:53 PM

View Post*mouse*, on 28 March 2011 - 11:57 PM, said:

Shame is seems to be so London-centric.

Would have been interested in having a go in the competition, but a train ticket to the capital is more than the cost of a pair of new boots for me! Might as well just go treat myself to the new pair of Teva's I've had my eye on!!!! LOL!


You must have very cheap boots ! Buy the tickets far enough in advance and it's usually under £20 (or at least it was a year or so ago when I was coming up a lot).

#24 User is offline   team tisri 

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:43 PM

View PostDorsetgal & GeoDog, on 29 March 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

It's a very small window of opoortunity from 28th March to 10th April.

Clearly they don't give a d-a-m-n about accessible caching as all four in London are terrain 1.5 - Timberland, wheelchair users buy your gear too you know!

Groundspeak - wheelchair users pay for membership too.

Now very inclusive if you ask me - in fact not inclusive at all.


As a wheelchair user you would probably struggle with them. The one in Battersea is at ground level, the one on Clapham Common is a bit tricky to get at through trees (easy enough for the able-bodied but I think you'd struggle to get a wheelchair through), the one near Clapham Common is at ground level (possibly accessible, if you can reach low from the wheelchair).

The one on Wandsworth Common - who knows? Based on today's efforts to find it I think it's in the middle of a gorse bush but since it was listed the difficulty and terrain have been changed from 1.5 to 2.5 and the clue has changed completely.

Not a bad start, getting the D/T ratings both wrong and the clue wrong....

#25 User is offline   TheAardvarkFamily 

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 01:23 PM

Just completed this series, including the Muggled cache which was C.
I really think that with a bit of peer review/consultation the caches could have been made much better and less muggle-able. I doubt they will last the duration.
MOAN ON>>>>
For a newbie... I think they fail to capture the magic of GCing.
I think the review process failed on these ones.
<<MOAN OFF.

#26 User is offline   keehotee 

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 10:01 PM

View PostTheAardvarkFamily, on 30 March 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

Just completed this series, including the Muggled cache which was C.
I really think that with a bit of peer review/consultation the caches could have been made much better and less muggle-able. I doubt they will last the duration.
MOAN ON>>>>
For a newbie... I think they fail to capture the magic of GCing.
I think the review process failed on these ones.
<<MOAN OFF.


Rumour has it these caches were all hidden on behalf of Timberland by experienced cachers in the areas involved - I think that says more to the areas than the newness of the hiders ;)

The review process only assesses the legitimacy of the hide - NOT the quality!

#27 User is offline   *mouse* 

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 10:06 PM

View PostLinseyG, on 29 March 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

View Post*mouse*, on 28 March 2011 - 11:57 PM, said:

Shame is seems to be so London-centric.

Would have been interested in having a go in the competition, but a train ticket to the capital is more than the cost of a pair of new boots for me! Might as well just go treat myself to the new pair of Teva's I've had my eye on!!!! LOL!


You must have very cheap boots ! Buy the tickets far enough in advance and it's usually under £20 (or at least it was a year or so ago when I was coming up a lot).


Lol - work means I don't get the chance to be so organised and plan ahead so far. Last time I had to go to London the cheapest they would sell me was over £100. Needless to say I walked out the ticket office got in the car and drove up instead!

#28 User is offline   Graculus 

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 11:16 PM

View Postkeehotee, on 30 March 2011 - 10:01 PM, said:

The review process only assesses the legitimacy of the hide - NOT the quality!

:rolleyes: Yes, caches are reviewed against the guidelines and there isn't one for quality

or is there?

From the Getting Started pages.

Quote

Geocaching is just like real estate - location, location, location! It is common for geocachers to hide caches in locations that are important to them, reflecting a special interest or skill of the cache owner. These unique locations on the planet can be quite diverse. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache.

Chris
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UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk
Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

#29 User is offline   Amberel 

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 11:47 PM

View PostGraculus, on 30 March 2011 - 11:16 PM, said:

View Postkeehotee, on 30 March 2011 - 10:01 PM, said:

The review process only assesses the legitimacy of the hide - NOT the quality!

:rolleyes: Yes, caches are reviewed against the guidelines and there isn't one for quality

or is there?

From the Getting Started pages.

Quote

Geocaching is just like real estate - location, location, location! It is common for geocachers to hide caches in locations that are important to them, reflecting a special interest or skill of the cache owner. These unique locations on the planet can be quite diverse. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache.

Chris
Graculus
Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com
I have often thought that there should be a question on the cache submission form where you have to describe WHY you are setting a cache. If the guidelines really did permit review for quality, this would allow the reviwer to point out to an inexperienced cacher that, for example, "I'm desperate to hide a cache", or "it's right outside my house so I can see people looking for it", or "because there isn't already a cache within 0.1 mile" are not by themselves good reasons, and are likely to result in a poor quality cache.

It wouldn't stop a determined setter, who could simply falsify the reason, but it might help to reduce the number of poor caches that are set because an inexperienced cacher didn't know better.

Sorry, just realised this has strayed off topic. Back to the original topic, I initially planned to visit these caches while in the area on business yesterday. But the whole thing, from the competition pages to the caches themselves, appeared to be such a shambles that I didn't bother.

Rgds, Andy

#30 User is offline   team tisri 

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:08 AM

View Postkeehotee, on 30 March 2011 - 10:01 PM, said:

View PostTheAardvarkFamily, on 30 March 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

Just completed this series, including the Muggled cache which was C.
I really think that with a bit of peer review/consultation the caches could have been made much better and less muggle-able. I doubt they will last the duration.
MOAN ON>>>>
For a newbie... I think they fail to capture the magic of GCing.
I think the review process failed on these ones.
<<MOAN OFF.


Rumour has it these caches were all hidden on behalf of Timberland by experienced cachers in the areas involved - I think that says more to the areas than the newness of the hiders ;)

The review process only assesses the legitimacy of the hide - NOT the quality!


Hidden by experienced cachers? I find that very hard to believe. I don't think it says anything about the areas - other caches are hidden in the same areas that aren't just laid out in the open and don't involve fighting through hawthorn. At the very least caches that do involve spiky bushes are more accurately rated for D/T and none of the caches in the area have clues as misleading as A and C started out with.

A is a half log in a very popular area, the first finder reported it being on its side, when I found it the clue was completely wrong (the clue referred to a fake rock). I can't see it lasting for long before it's muggled.

B is hidden in a tree that's tricky to get to without either fighting through other trees or crossing planted flowers. You can cross the patch of flowers without trampling them but I wonder how many will just walk straight across, and how many excitable children will run straight across.

C started life with inaccurate D/T ratings, an inaccurate clue and coordinates that pointed into a hawthorn bush. The area has plenty of gorse and hawthorn and people who have searched in great detail have reported a smell of dog urine everywhere. It was muggled before anyone had chance to find it.

D is a fake rock in the roots of a tree. Not hugely inventive but no worse than many others.

For a "fun promotion which aims to get more people Geocaching" I'd rate this series poorly. I know when I go caching that I'll find some that I enjoy and some that I won't, that I'll find some cleverly disguised caches and some urban micros behind street signs. A new cacher who sees a cache rated 1.5/1.5 (as C was originally) only to find that appears to mean "in the middle of the hawthorn tree" and then finds the clue has been changed so they were sent on a wild goose chase, may not bother trying any further. If B causes planted flowers to be trampled we could lose the support of whoever maintains the park, which in turn could cause other caches to be archived or denied.

Regardless of my personal opinion of these four caches it's hard to see how anyone thinks this series would get more people geocaching, and given the number of fundamental issues most of them seem to have had (and the caches in other countries seem to have similar problems) I don't understand why a company like Timberland (other footwear providers are available) would want to be associated with them in any way at all. Whoever set the London series couldn't even get their cache pages right.

This post has been edited by team tisri: 31 March 2011 - 03:09 AM


#31 User is offline   TheAardvarkFamily 

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:00 AM

My 2p worth...

An idea for next time would be to use existing caches, with cache owner permission, to host the secret codes. They could be temporarily renamed.
Only highly favourite-d caches would be eligible.

Regards
MrA

#32 User is offline   Dorsetgal & GeoDog 

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 10:47 AM

...I see nobody has come back from the promotion or Groundspeak to explain why they have limited the game by excluding wheelchair users and those with limited mobility. :huh:

#33 User is offline   TheAardvarkFamily 

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 11:18 AM

Just found this...

"The Trail of Heroes geocaching promotion has not officially opened to the community and is currently being reviewed by pre-selected individuals who have been sent a specific code to identify themselves. We are using this soft release to make sure we can present the best promotion possible to the larger geocaching community. Please check back in the next few weeks for additional details."

Looks like there may still be time to make it fun and accessible

Regards
MrA

#34 User is offline   Dorsetgal & GeoDog 

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:21 AM

Just to say, the organisers made contact with me yesterday via Twitter and I'm looking forward to talking to them by phone soon.

#35 User is offline   novw 

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 02:38 PM

<grunt>
The world has fallen into two sides: the dutch hardcore geocaching.nl cachers vs the rest of the world. The Dutch think geocaching is an elite hobby. The player must suffer. Only a few people should (!) be able to play at all.

Hence the statistics. Out of 12341 caches in NL territory 4310 are traditional. I am not a mathematician, but that is way under 40%. Compare that to the rest of the world; We visited the great state of Texas last October (2010) . I ended up at 85% traditional. In Namibia (which we also visited) 21 out of 147 caches are non-traditional caches. Actually, any country I can think of, the stats will show more than 75% of caches are traditional.

And don't think the Dutch will let the rest of the world get away with it. Don't try to place a traditional cache on Dutch turf. You will be spammed, yelled at and your cache might just disapear sooner than you got permission. When a single cache takes less than 6 hours to complete, it is a bad cache. When Groundspeak allows for a commercial cache: all hell breaks loose as you may have seen. The Dutch forum explodes with angry cachers.

There is a solution to the Dutch problem though: commercial caches should be a 6 hour tour. Through woods, and sand. Passing the dunes, looking at the sea. The Dutch will adore your commercial cache, and you will end up with a gazillion of favorite markings. commercial or not...

</grunt>

Like most Dutch geocachers I don't like the geocaching.nl attitude. Please, don't confuse geocaching.nl with the Dutch geocacher.

In my book, any cache is a cache. I am the one who decides what cache to search. Commercial, multi, park'ngrab, anything. It is my decision. And the rest of the world should try to convince the Dutch on their err.

(yes, I am Dutch. And I hate longwinding multi's and/or puzle caches that can not be solved without help)

#36 User is offline   The Brat Pack 

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:27 AM

View Postnovw, on 03 April 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

<grunt>
The world has fallen into two sides: the dutch hardcore geocaching.nl cachers vs the rest of the world. The Dutch think geocaching is an elite hobby. The player must suffer. Only a few people should (!) be able to play at all.

Hence the statistics. Out of 12341 caches in NL territory 4310 are traditional. I am not a mathematician, but that is way under 40%. Compare that to the rest of the world; We visited the great state of Texas last October (2010) . I ended up at 85% traditional. In Namibia (which we also visited) 21 out of 147 caches are non-traditional caches. Actually, any country I can think of, the stats will show more than 75% of caches are traditional.

And don't think the Dutch will let the rest of the world get away with it. Don't try to place a traditional cache on Dutch turf. You will be spammed, yelled at and your cache might just disapear sooner than you got permission. When a single cache takes less than 6 hours to complete, it is a bad cache. When Groundspeak allows for a commercial cache: all hell breaks loose as you may have seen. The Dutch forum explodes with angry cachers.

There is a solution to the Dutch problem though: commercial caches should be a 6 hour tour. Through woods, and sand. Passing the dunes, looking at the sea. The Dutch will adore your commercial cache, and you will end up with a gazillion of favorite markings. commercial or not...

</grunt>

Like most Dutch geocachers I don't like the geocaching.nl attitude. Please, don't confuse geocaching.nl with the Dutch geocacher.

In my book, any cache is a cache. I am the one who decides what cache to search. Commercial, multi, park'ngrab, anything. It is my decision. And the rest of the world should try to convince the Dutch on their err.

(yes, I am Dutch. And I hate longwinding multi's and/or puzle caches that can not be solved without help)



Surprised by this post - I have only found one cache in the Netherlands, and it was the usual 35mm film container (and a Traditional) placed in some non-descript location in Dordrecht. Although the high prevalence of multis and puzzle caches in the surrounding area was noted.

#37 User is offline   Alice Band 

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 03:28 PM

Well Dorsetgal, I met you a couple of years ago and I've placed caches designed to be wheelchair friendly :) but I am a touch disappointed that the Trail of Heroes setters appear to have assumed that all cachers and potential new cachers are not disabled in any way.

Like some others I was baffled by the anger shown by members of the community, but now I've read up on what's going on and have been gently nudged further via PM's on Facebook I can understand why people feel that way. Messages explaining the whole thing/launching the campaign would have been useful - I had no idea this was launched till I saw links to angry posts appearing elsewhere :ph34r:

#38 User is offline   Dorsetgal & GeoDog 

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:45 AM

I'm more disappointed than angry over the accessibility issue - it is not that I believe all caches should be accessible or anything, but when it becomes a promotion / contest, then I believe it is only right to include all members of the community.

I also understand it is Groundspeaks playing field, and Timberlands promotion, but somehow suspect this has been done in a bit of a rush and the soft roll out has done nothing to instill confidence, sadly.

I have had some contact with Timberland and explained it is not just about wheelchair users, but anyone with difficulties presented by the terrain, which might include people with other mobility impairments, people with small children and so on.

I am also a little puzzled by the name, when I saw Trail of Heroes, I expected the caches to be picking out historic figures, or modern day ones who perhaps had been explorers, navigators and so on.

Let's hope there is lots going on behind the scenes so that when the hard roll out comes, the opportunity will be there to attract people of varying levels of ability to the game and also there for established cachers of varying abilities to take part, ad that the caches set, will be worthy advertisements for our hobby.

#39 User is offline   team tisri 

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:11 AM

View PostDorsetgal & GeoDog, on 06 April 2011 - 08:45 AM, said:

I'm more disappointed than angry over the accessibility issue - it is not that I believe all caches should be accessible or anything, but when it becomes a promotion / contest, then I believe it is only right to include all members of the community.


There was a lot of hostility shown in logs on the caches (long since deleted), mostly it appears by Dutch cachers.


Quote

I also understand it is Groundspeaks playing field, and Timberlands promotion, but somehow suspect this has been done in a bit of a rush and the soft roll out has done nothing to instill confidence, sadly.

I have had some contact with Timberland and explained it is not just about wheelchair users, but anyone with difficulties presented by the terrain, which might include people with other mobility impairments, people with small children and so on.


The cache placements show very little thought or imagination. Certainly they aren't the kind of thing I'd expect any company to want to use as a promotion, let alone a company that wants to claim eco credentials like Timberland clearly does.

Quote

I am also a little puzzled by the name, when I saw Trail of Heroes, I expected the caches to be picking out historic figures, or modern day ones who perhaps had been explorers, navigators and so on.


Definitely a wasted opportunity, given what London has to offer regarding heroes of just about every flavour.

#40 User is offline   The Blorenges 

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:31 AM

Just commenting that it appears that the "Trail of Heroes" theme was never meant to be about "historical Heroes" but just refers to the "ecological hero", the guy in the Timberland ad who chases after the water bottle.


MrsB

#41 User is offline   Pharisee 

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:50 AM

View PostThe Blorenges, on 07 April 2011 - 01:31 AM, said:

Just commenting that it appears that the "Trail of Heroes" theme was never meant to be about "historical Heroes" but just refers to the "ecological hero", the guy in the Timberland ad who chases after the water bottle.


MrsB


Then surely it should be "Hero's Trail" and not "Trail of Heroes" which implies more than one Hero. I expect lousy grammar from the illiterate yobs that they turn out of schools these days but not from a large, well established company like Timberland.

#42 User is offline   team tisri 

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:17 AM

View PostThe Blorenges, on 07 April 2011 - 01:31 AM, said:

Just commenting that it appears that the "Trail of Heroes" theme was never meant to be about "historical Heroes" but just refers to the "ecological hero", the guy in the Timberland ad who chases after the water bottle.


MrsB


That makes it even more ironic, given the likely damage due to the placement of these caches, particularly the one on Clapham Common so near the flower bed that will probably get trampled as people hunt the cache.

This post has been edited by team tisri: 07 April 2011 - 04:17 AM


#43 User is offline   MartyBartfast 

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 12:01 PM

The London ones have just been archived!

#44 User is offline   Mr S Vimes 

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 12:07 PM

All have been archived

#45 User is offline   team tisri 

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:06 PM

View PostMartyBartfast, on 11 April 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

The London ones have just been archived!


Odd, so they all fall foul of the guideline that says they must be placed with an expectation of a reasonable lifespan. I wonder if they will be collected or just left as geolitter. It would be the ultimate irony if this eco-friendly promotion resulted in two dozen pieces of geolitter across Western Europe.

#46 User is offline   Neath Worthies 

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:22 PM

I was intrigued by the discussion on this series so decided to have quick look at the cache pages to see what the fuss was all about. Found I couldn't get at the list of caches on the Timberland page without "registering" so entered some dummy details. Anyway the cache pages themselves looked innocuous and the logs made interesting reading, especially the Wandsworth Common one. But what caught my eye was this phrase in the cache description "and to the south side of the park is the Michelin starred restaurant Chez Bruce, where the celebrity chef Gordon Ramsay learnt his trade".

While I fully realise this is a commercial cache approved by Groundspeak I took that to mean the Timberland aspect had been approved. Given the recent discussion about whether or not it is acceptable to mention a pub name in a cache description surely this is blatant disregard for the rules the rest of us are being forced to adhere to? Or is Groundspeak taking a kickback from Chez Bruce too in which case I can understand the apparent double standards?

#47 User is offline   Neath Worthies 

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:23 PM

...... and were all four placed with the express permission of the park authorities?

#48 User is offline   Mr S Vimes 

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 02:15 AM

I think you can be sure we will never get any answer regarding these caches, and i fully expect this comment to be deleted :)

#49 User is offline   dodgydaved 

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 02:34 AM

View PostNeath Worthies, on 11 April 2011 - 11:22 PM, said:

While I fully realise this is a commercial cache approved by Groundspeak I took that to mean the Timberland aspect had been approved. Given the recent discussion about whether or not it is acceptable to mention a pub name in a cache description surely this is blatant disregard for the rules the rest of us are being forced to adhere to? Or is Groundspeak taking a kickback from Chez Bruce too in which case I can understand the apparent double standards?




I must admit that has had a distinct effect on my hypertension - more tablets please Matron!

#50 User is offline   keehotee 

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:09 AM

View PostMr S Vimes, on 12 April 2011 - 02:15 AM, said:

I think you can be sure we will never get any answer regarding these caches, and i fully expect this comment to be deleted :)


Why? If you don't mind me asking?

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