+southdeltan Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I recall there being a thread (maybe even poll) about who should be able to see watch list information. I think it'd be useful for a cache-owner to know who is watching their cache. I wouldn't object to it being a Premium Member feature, either - but it would be nice for non members too. I never heard what TPTB said in the end about that, or if they ever made a decision. I was reminded of that when I read the threads on 'audit logs', so I thought I'd bring it up again. southdeltan Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by southdeltan: I think it'd be useful for a cache-owner to know who is watching their cache. What use would that be? "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
+CrimsonWrath Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Prime Suspect:What use would that be? Quenching a curiosity. Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Yeah, that's pretty much what it came down to in the other 350 threads that have been started on this subject. "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Prime Suspect:Yeah, that's pretty much what it came down to in the other 350 threads that have been started on this subject. Erm - there were 350 other threads to find out what the official 'final verdict' on a poll was? I don't remember that . I did some digging and found the poll. Seems that Jeremy thought that since only roughly 300 people voted in a month, it was a low priority issue. I'm not sure what the reasoning is - that's a sizable amount of votes (and nearly 90% thought that AT LEAST the cache owner should be able to see it). Yes, there are over 50k registered users but I'd imagine that only a fraction of that number reads the forums with any regularity. Oh well, question answered I guess. I was just curious based on mentionings of an 'audit log'. No reason to get worked up over it PS southdeltan Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by southdeltan: No reason to get worked up over it PS I'm not "worked up" at all. When I get worked up, my posts are generally a lot longer than a single sentence. I am still wondering what that "use" was you mentioned in your original post. Care to let us in on it? Perhaps there's a reason it shouldn't be a low priority. "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 Perhaps useful was a poor choice of words (seems like we're arguing over semantics) - I'm really not sure how to describe it but it's more than just a curiosity issue - but I guess it's basically related to knowing who is watching it. It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to implement. The code is in place for 'audit' logs - just change it so that it shows who is watching (not who has viewed) and make it available to all cache owners. southdeltan Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote: What use would that be? I was on the fence about this feature, but now that there is a pirate operating in my area and targeting my caches, I'd really like to know who is watching my caches. I'm sure the pirate is among the watchers, so he can see the reaction when his deed is discovered. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: quote: What use would that be? I was on the fence about this feature, but now that there is a pirate operating in my area and targeting my caches, I'd really like to know who is watching my caches. I'm sure the pirate is among the watchers, so he can see the reaction when his deed is discovered. Sorry, but I don't buy that reasoning. You can see my reasons here, here, here, and here. "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Everyone's raised such good points. I like to take the high road this being such a friendly site. So we have it so we can know who's watching. So Joe sees Charlie Cacher's been looking for 3 1/2 months but hasn't hit his cache. So Joe being a concerned cacher emails Charlie to see if he's still alive. Maybe he didn't clear his account before he passed on to that great cache in the sky. Confirming his worries about Joe's health were unfounded, he tries to elicit from Charlie what's holding him up. So Charlie says that well he was going to go but was worried about the mugging that occurred in the park where the cache is. SO Joe says, I understand, how about if I go with you and we can then go for a beer afterwards? Charlie thinks it's a great idea and two new friends are brought together. Now isn't that a nice story. Alan Now isn't that Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Alan2: So we have it so we can know who's watching. So Joe sees Charlie Cacher's been looking for 3 1/2 months but hasn't hit his cache. So Joe being a concerned cacher emails Charlie to see if he's still alive. Maybe he didn't clear his account before he passed on to that great cache in the sky. Confirming his worries about Joe's health were unfounded, he tries to elicit from Charlie what's holding him up. I have caches on my watch list that I never intend to visit. They're caches in remote areas that rarely get logged, and caches that generate highly entertaining logs. While I enjoy reading these logs, I really don't want to get messages bugging me about why I haven't logged the cache yet. Thanks, but no thanks. "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." [This message was edited by Prime Suspect on October 06, 2003 at 12:29 PM.] Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: I was on the fence about this feature, but now that there is a pirate operating in my area and targeting my caches, I'd really like to know who is watching my caches. I'm sure the pirate is among the watchers, so he can see the reaction when his deed is discovered. I doubt that very much. I would think the pirates would make every attempt to cover their tracks, and probably view the pages of their misdeeds 'anonymously.' (In other words, I expect they wouldn't even log in.) MOCs address that problem to some degree, but I recently learned that even the MOC audit trail can be circumvented. I think that issue is more in need of addressing than the watch lists. Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Prime Suspect: quote:Originally posted by southdeltan: I think it'd be useful for a cache-owner to know who is watching their cache. What use would that be? http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/3608_2800.gif _"Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body."_ I believe the use would be the same as having a watch on a cache that the watcher never intends to visit. John ******************************************************* It's hard to remember that your primary objective is to drain the swamp, when you're up to your a$$ in alligators. Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders): I believe the use would be the same as having a watch on a cache that the watcher never intends to visit. No, not really. Cache logs are open and available to be read by anyone. Everyone who posts a log knows that, and knows they have no expectation of privacy. Whether the method of reading is via browser or watch list email is irrelevent. However, exposing watch list membership is making public something that was believed to be private. You can read my post here if you want to know why I think that's a really bad idea. (And yes, I know MOC logs can't be read by everyone, but since the loggers have no control or voice in who can become a member, there's still no expectation of privacy.) "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 PS: funny you should be watching an Alaska cache. Me too Near the beginning of the new world. Remote Alaska. Be prepared for anything. I contacted the one and only guy who went after it. He didn't make it but we had some great emails. He even sent me additional pictures taken on the quest. Totalling entertaining! Alan Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Alan2:PS: funny you should be watching an Alaska cache. Me too http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=4697 I contacted the one and only guy who went after it. He didn't make it but we had some great emails. He even sent me additional pictures taken on the quest. Totalling entertaining! Those are great photos, especially the fire. Here's one in Norway from my watch list that was place over 2 years ago, and has yet to be found. Be sure to check out the picture. "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I'm confused now. Do you mean to say that if the cache owner knows you're watching his cache, that takes all the fun out of it? Kind of like it's no fun to spy on someone when they know you're looking? Why should I expect privacy just to watch a cache? I can't think of any reason the owner of the cache shouldn't know 2oldfarts is watching his cache, unless of course he doesn't want ME to find it. The use is the same as stated before.....enjoyment of the game! ******************************************************* It's hard to remember that your primary objective is to drain the swamp, when you're up to your a$$ in alligators. Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders):I'm confused now. Do you mean to say that if the cache owner knows you're watching his cache, that takes all the fun out of it? Kind of like it's no fun to spy on someone when they know you're looking? No, I didn't mean to say that, nor did I actually say anything remotely like that. You obviously didn't read the link. Glad I could clear up your confusion. "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." Link to comment
+Bloencustoms Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Prime Suspect, I just read the post you linked. quote: Now, you have to ask yourself, would you want to add yourself to a cache's watch list, if it meant that you could find yourself coming under suspicion of vandalizing that cache, should anything ever happen to it? I think that the very act of logging a cache could bring you under suspicion. Yet, people log caches all the time. [This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM] Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Bloencustoms:Prime Suspect, I just read the post you linked. quote: Now, you have to ask yourself, would you want to add yourself to a cache's watch list, if it meant that you could find yourself coming under suspicion of vandalizing that cache, should anything ever happen to it? I think that the very act of _logging_ a cache could bring you under suspicion. Yet, people log caches all the time. [This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM] I just got back to this thread - and I agree with BC 100%. Your arguement that if somebody knows you're watching the cache then they'll suspect you is a bit farfetched. You could just as easily suspect everybody who had ever logged a find/dnf/note/archive to your cache. If somebody is paranoid and is gonna point fingers, they're gonna point fingers. Nobody said 'make it so people can see them, but don't tell people'. All you have to do is in BOLD PRINT put a disclaimer that says 'The cache owner can view members of a watch list' or 'The general public can view members of a watch list'. That gives anybody with privacy issues the chance to remove themself. southdeltan Link to comment
Jeremy Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 We have no plans to show watchlist users. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 Can you lock this thread then? I don't see any point in discussing it anymore at this point. southdeltan Link to comment
+Prime Suspect Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by southdeltan:Your arguement that if somebody knows you're watching the cache then they'll suspect you is a bit farfetched. (...) Can you lock this thread then? I don't see any point in discussing it anymore at this point. Had you been reading these forums as long as I have you would know: 1) People have asked that the watch list be exposed for exactly that reason. 2) You started this thread, so you can close it yourself (unless TPTB have recently turned this option off). "Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body." [This message was edited by Prime Suspect on October 07, 2003 at 06:26 PM.] Link to comment
+southdeltan Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Prime Suspect:1) People have asked that the watch list be exposed for _exactly_ that reason. (This reply is a cheap way of getting the last word, if I can in fact close this forum - my apologies ;( ) Why let a minority ruin it? If I read the Forums rules and TOS - TPTB can remove people that start accusing/etc. Besides - if you've been around long enough you'll read the threads where people can put "invisible" images on cache pages and learn your IP - so if somebody want's to point fingers they can still find a target. quote:2) You started this thread, so you can close it yourself (unless TPTB have recently turned this option off). I can? I wasn't aware of that - I'll try. BTW - not trying to cut you off or anything but Jeremy has spoken...... southdeltan Link to comment
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