[yogazoo]

Changes made from version 3.20 to 3.30:

Fixed spanner mode prompt
Fixed issues reviewing very long routes in route planner
Fixed issue with disappearing dashboard on the main menu
Fixed issue where selected dashboard would not show up unless page was exited and reentered.
Fixed issues with missing map scale.
Fixed shutdown related to proximity alarm POIs.
Added Large Data Field Dashboard.
Added Satellite Dashboard.
Added ability to sort photos On A Specific Date in Photo Viewer.
Added View Map button to Waypoint Manager > Edit waypoint.

[yogazoo]

The Satellite dashboard is a really cool new addition. Not only does it display the sat status but also the GPS estimated error and GPS elevation. Pretty cool, I would have never thought to add this as a dashboard but whomever suggested it to Garmin, thanks!

The view map button in Waypoint manager is another welcomed addition.

So far, after a few hours of testing there are no new bugs and the new additions are very nice. I think/hope the triage bug fix stage is nearly complete for the Montana series firmware.

Lets call it firmware puberty.

This post has been edited by yogazoo: 02 September 2011 - 09:10 PM

[taeke]

yogazoo, on 02 September 2011 - 08:47 PM, said:

The Satellite dashboard is a really cool new addition.

The sat-dashboard on my device flashes on and off all the time. Very distracting and surely not normal? Is your's steady?

[freeday]

This bug is installed since 3.20 - still on 3.30


Set montana (650t) to recreational profile
set montana to fixed landscape mode
use with gps off (DEMO MODE)
!!! CORRECT on main screen: left side buttons, RIGHT side time/signal/batterie, date

search recent find - GO - DIRECT ROUTING - MOVE TO LOCATION
leave map and go to start-screen
NOW: !!! FALSE on main screen: left side buttons, LEFT side time/signal/batterie, date (BUTTONS AND SIGNAL/DATE_INFO are at SAME PLACE)

This post has been edited by freeday: 03 September 2011 - 04:27 AM

[MtnHermit]

yogazoo, on 02 September 2011 - 08:45 PM, said:

Added Large Data Field Dashboard.
Added Satellite Dashboard.
Added ability to sort photos On A Specific Date in Photo Viewer.
Added View Map button to Waypoint Manager > Edit waypoint.

How about some screenshots?

[Bullygoat29]

Anyone having any problems with City Navigator staying active? I can not get it to stay disabled on a profile change. All of my other maps work fine.

[wa2n]

Bullygoat29, on 03 September 2011 - 07:31 AM, said:

Anyone having any problems with City Navigator staying active? I can not get it to stay disabled on a profile change. All of my other maps work fine.

My map selections appear to stay the same as I change from Motorcycle to Recreational. Although I did get it to crash after a change to recreational profile and select map operation. I also can repeatedly make it crash (power off) by opening the route manager, selecting a waypoint, and view map. So there are bugs in 3.3.

I work in R&D for a medical device company and it pains me how long we spend to validate our software thoroughly. Literally months with several foot stacks of documentation to show for it. But, these kinds of bugs don't show. My guess is that Garmin only has a small staff to do checks after a firmware update, and no written regression test plan to exercise the entire feature set, etc. I'll bet that's not the case for the line of aviation GPS units. When I flew a small plane with a GNS430 and GNS530 a few years ago, there were no bugs either. But we're talking tens of thousands of dollars for both our instruments, and the aviation units.

This post has been edited by wa2n: 03 September 2011 - 07:58 AM

[yogazoo]

My Satellite dashboard also flashes when it's viewed from the map screen. From the Trip Computer screen it doesn't flash and works as it should.

[kb6ooc]

wa2n, on 03 September 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

My map selections appear to stay the same as I change from Motorcycle to Recreational. Although I did get it to crash after a change to recreational profile and select map operation. I also can repeatedly make it crash (power off) by opening the route manager, selecting a waypoint, and view map. So there are bugs in 3.3.

When I change between various profiles, my selected map set *IS* changing for me, so I am not able to duplicate that problem.

However, I am seeing the route related crash. It didn't happen in 3.20 and prior. For an additional check, I created a new route with a start and end waypoint only. When I tried to view this route on the map, it showed a map with the start and end point and a direct pink line between the two (okay so far). Next, it went to redraw the route with all the appropriate turns so I could drive/walk instead of fly. That's when the unit shutdown. I'll report it to the montanabeta team.

[andregixxer]

It's incredibile..every time i use my montana after a new FW release..i found new orrible bugs.
NOW route/trip planner ( "Pianifica Percorso" in Italian ) stop working..every time i select an existing trip when i select "Map"..montana shutdown; if i create a new trip...same thing.
I've created a new shortcut for map change...but again..it don't work, same active maps....no changes
after 4-5 minutes of playing inside shortcuts menu...montana lock for 2 seconds then CRASH..

it's incredibile i'm an developer too...and i can't understand why every time they release a new FW there must be new problems.

[taeke]

yogazoo, on 03 September 2011 - 08:31 AM, said:

My Satellite dashboard also flashes when it's viewed from the map screen. From the Trip Computer screen it doesn't flash and works as it should.

Indeed, same here. I only tried it on the map screen to get an indication for accuracy for geocaching.

[mamoreb]

I'm still having a crash problem that Garmin say they are not able to reproduce. Is anyone else able to?

I created a shortcut to switch to automotive profile (including automotive routing), select a waypoint and open the map. The shortcut worked at first, but after a few times, it constantly causes a crash. I have created five such shortcuts, with different waypoints, different maps, trying from different locations - same outcome (crash). It works as expected when I'm already in the automotive profile, but when I'm switching from another profile (with direct or prompted routing), I always get a crash. Do any of you?

[mamoreb]

In the calendar/hunt and fish/sun and moon applications - is everyone able to move smoothly from the current months to the previous/next?

I am using the arrows in the bottom right corner. Sometimes they work (bring me back to August), but when I try to go further backwards, or forwards to September, the GPS usually gets stuck with the arrow pointing to the right still in green (i.e. key pressed down). The only way to get out of this mode is to press either the x or the list icon.

[Cacheoholic]

I went back to 2008 and forward to 2014 with on issues.

[yogazoo]

Are there any current or ex programmers out there that could explain to the layman why GPS firmware seems to be so difficult to work on? I'm simply curious and in no way am I blaming any programmer at Garmin for the firmware trial period that seems to take a year. I'm simply wondering if there are any set of circumstances that makes GPS programming more difficult than any other electronic device. Keep in mind that it's not just Garmin but all manufacturers of consumer GPS units that seem to be working out bugs months after release.

What makes GPS firmware more challenging than say a smartphone, or a digital camera's firmware?

This post has been edited by yogazoo: 04 September 2011 - 07:26 PM

[wa2n]

Nothing special about programming a GPS. They aren't testing it sufficiently before release, that's the bottom line. In big companies that make cellphones (or medical products like my company makes) a firmware release is tested via predefined test plan where you check to see you didn't mess up something else while fixing a bug. Usually you expect to spend as much time or more testing than you do making the code changes. Based on what's happening here, I'm sure that type of design process isn't in place on the Montana or other handheld product lines. But then these are not life-critical devices, commercially significant devices, just toys, really. Unfortunately, the Montana was released without a lot of testing and the execs made the call on risk that we'd buy it anyway. For now, I can just avoid those operations that cause it to crash. I'm confident they'll fix all the bugs. Not sure we'll get the ability to turn off auto-recalculation though - that's a feature change that may never happen.

yogazoo, on 04 September 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

Are there any current or ex programmers out there that could explain to the layman why GPS firmware seems to be so difficult to work on? I'm simply curious and in no way am I blaming any programmer at Garmin for the firmware trial period that seems to take a year. I'm simply wondering if there are any set of circumstances that makes GPS programming more difficult than any other electronic device. Keep in mind that it's not just Garmin but all manufacturers of consumer GPS units that seem to be working out bugs months after release.

What makes GPS firmware more challenging than say a smartphone, or a digital camera's firmware?

[dfx]

yogazoo, on 04 September 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

What makes GPS firmware more challenging than say a smartphone, or a digital camera's firmware?

vs smartphone: smaller market.
vs camera: higher complexity.

Would be my guesses, anyway.

[splashy]

These "toys" as you call it, are used by millions of people, everybody handles it it's own way with thousands of different maps, many in different profiles and/or shortcuts, used by hikers, kayak, car and airplanes, or whatever, in extreme heat or cold, so we really stretch it to the limit.
In 8 weeks we had about 1 update every few days, by now most of the issues are solved.
If your Montana problem is not fixed with the new update it seems to take ages until your problem is solved, but after 2 month I think they did a quite decent job this time.
Not all Montana's crashes are because of the software, users can be very tricky too and even high-tech professional stuff crashes sometimes.

[yogazoo]

splashy, on 05 September 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

In 8 weeks we had about 1 update every few days, by now most of the issues are solved.
If your Montana problem is not fixed with the new update it seems to take ages until your problem is solved, but after 2 month I think they did a quite decent job this time.

I agree, I think they do/did a really great job since the release. And I know that users place alot of variability into the equation with use and maps and GPX files but the same could be said of smart-phone devices.

I think Wa2n hit the nail on the head and really reiterates what we all say all the time. The firmware testing, or at least a majority of it, is done by the purchaser for about a year after release. Someone at Gamin crunched the numbers and for them it makes $ense to handle firmware in this fashion. And to Splashy's point, it would be impossible for Garmin to test all the variables that individual users bring into the equation. So really, the model of releaseing the product with a workable firmware and then being responsive to user bug fixes and issues really makes the most sense.

[andregixxer]

splashy, on 05 September 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

These "toys" as you call it, are used by millions of people, everybody handles it it's own way with thousands of different maps, many in different profiles and/or shortcuts, used by hikers, kayak, car and airplanes, or whatever, in extreme heat or cold, so we really stretch it to the limit.
In 8 weeks we had about 1 update every few days, by now most of the issues are solved.
If your Montana problem is not fixed with the new update it seems to take ages until your problem is solved, but after 2 month I think they did a quite decent job this time.
Not all Montana's crashes are because of the software, users can be very tricky too and even high-tech professional stuff crashes sometimes.

i undestand this...
but ( i'm a developer ) .. when i fix a bug i can't create a new bug in different places..brand new problems in working existing procedures.
when i compile my source code i must complete a full beta testing cycle before publish my program...

montana's developer must flag FW as "BETA FW"

This post has been edited by andregixxer: 05 September 2011 - 05:50 AM

[splashy]

All Garmin updates with decimals are Beta's and agree with you, there should be no new bugs in new software, BUT they include new options, making the gps even more complete.
But still, I'm happy with the beta's.

[andregixxer]

splashy, on 05 September 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

All Garmin updates with decimals are Beta's and agree with you, there should be no new bugs in new software, BUT they include new options, making the gps even more complete.
But still, I'm happy with the beta's.

sure ? i've an Oregon 400T with 4.20 FW version, Edge 800 with 2.20 FW version

for oregon 400T there was a Beta page with "beta software".. then the official page with the final release ( every 5-6 beta releases ) ..

beta page : https://buy.garmin.c...D=145&pID=14904
official page : http://www8.garmin.c...ils.jsp?id=4051

they should made a 100% stable bug-free version first ...
develop a lot of beta versions with new features ecc....
then release another 100% stable version...

(xcuse my bad english )

This post has been edited by andregixxer: 05 September 2011 - 07:16 AM

[michaelnel]

splashy, on 05 September 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

All Garmin updates are Alphas

There, fixed it for ya! ;-)

[Bullygoat29]

michaelnel, on 05 September 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

splashy, on 05 September 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

All Garmin updates are Alphas

There, fixed it for ya! ;-)

You're both wrong. Beta's do not end with .X0. Beta's end in .XY as in 4.18 and are not downloadable through webupdater.

If you're going to hate at least get your facts correct.

[splashy]

Everybody happy now.

[michaelnel]

Bullygoat29, on 05 September 2011 - 12:27 PM, said:

If you're going to hate at least get your facts correct.

No hate. Now that I don't have to deal with them any more, I find the whole thing fascinating to watch, kind of like the way we stare at a car wreck when we drive by.

[G & C]

michaelnel, on 05 September 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

Bullygoat29, on 05 September 2011 - 12:27 PM, said:

If you're going to hate at least get your facts correct.

No hate. Now that I don't have to deal with them any more, I find the whole thing fascinating to watch, kind of like the way we stare at a car wreck when we drive by.

Do you get out and trash talk those involved in the wrecks when you pass them? I'd guess yes by the way you feel it necessary to chime in on every Garmin thread around here with your negative feedback. It's kinda tired, but do as you please I suppose.

[andregixxer]

i love my montana unit..i'm only hoping in a stable firmware, no more

[freeday]

Garmin confirmed bug (they could reproduce it) and will fix it

This post has been edited by freeday: 06 September 2011 - 05:58 AM

[mamoreb]

Could anyone please check if you have the problem I described below?

mamoreb, on 04 September 2011 - 09:28 AM, said:

I'm still having a crash problem that Garmin say they are not able to reproduce. Is anyone else able to?

I created a shortcut to switch to automotive profile (including automotive routing), select a waypoint and open the map. The shortcut worked at first, but after a few times, it constantly causes a crash. I have created five such shortcuts, with different waypoints, different maps, trying from different locations - same outcome (crash). It works as expected when I'm already in the automotive profile, but when I'm switching from another profile (with direct or prompted routing), I always get a crash. Do any of you?

[splashy]

Can you post a shortcut?
Just open one in a text editor select all the text and paste it here.

[mamoreb]

Sure. Here is one:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><Shortcut><Settings><Icon>734</Icon><Profile>Automotive</Profile><Waypoint>Jobb NIH</Waypoint><Application>4</Application></Settings></Shortcut>

And another:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><Shortcut><Settings><Icon>734</Icon><Profile>Automotive</Profile><Waypoint>Challenge utsikt</Waypoint><Application>4</Application></Settings></Shortcut>

[splashy]

I tried it 10 times in simulation mode, for now it seems to work fine.
Does your waypoint have the SAME name (caps)?
Does your automotive mode have (routable) maps ON?

I will keep it on my Gps, if it crashes or I find a reason I tell you.

[mamoreb]

Yes to all the questions.

When I am already in automotive mode and run these shortcuts, they work exactly as expected.

When I am not in automotive mode, but remove the opening of the map from the shortcuts, they work exactly as expected.

Strangest thing is that the shortcuts always worked a couple of times before they stopped working...

[splashy]

Just had to pick up somebody, tried it from a different profile, it worked as it should, it changed profile and map and did the navigation.
Maybe renaming the shortcut helps?

[mamoreb]

I tried three different shortcuts, but when I think about it, all three included a whitespace... I'll try renaming. Thanks for helping out!