[bflentje]

StarBrand, on 05 April 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

I would not hesitate to delete any online logs where there was no evidence of an actual visit in the physical logbook or from a cacher that was with them.

Me either.

And I too never trade swag.

[bflentje]

AustinMN, on 06 April 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

I have not placed any caches yet, but there is one scenario where I would definitely delete a log.

If someone declares the cache is not there and places a throwdown, but when I check the real cache is in good order, the throwdown will be removed, the "helpful" cacher will be politely notified that they can log a DNF if the choose, and the find log deleted.

Austin

Another automatic deletion is when I have a high star terrain cache and the finder is dumb enough to admit in their log that they could see the cache but couldn't get their hands on it (tree, cliff, island, etc). Happens a lot. I understand circumstances such as mushy logs, frozen logs, even no writing utensil. But if you you can't get your fingers on the log, DELETE. But then I don't audit so if you cheat, keep your mouth shut. That's MY game. When finding my caches, you play MY game. Play YOUR game with someone else's caches.

-- NOTE: YOU and YOUR to mean the collective.

[Mr.Yuck]

Mushroom finder, on 05 April 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Max and 99, on 05 April 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

deb3day, on 05 April 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

I was surprised when I read the log of one of my first caches that a lot of people found it, signed it and never logged it . I saw several names that never appeared on the geocaching.com log page.

I've noticed lately a lot more people signing the physical cache log but not logging their find online.

Me too. A lot of times you'll see a group that all signed the log together but only one logged online. I know I've taken family members caching before and we all signed but I'm the only one who has a geocaching account so I'm the only one in the group who logged online. When I look at my log books I count each entry as one visit no matter how many people might have signed as a group. On a recent maintenance trip to my most popular cache, I counted 138 separate finds (both individual and group finds) recorded in the log book but only 98 finds had been logged online. I believe there were over 150 individuals documented within those 138 visits in the physical log.

Interesting. I was thinking exactly the opposite, and there are less and less people who sign the log and don't log online as time passes. To me, this was much, much more prevalent in the "old days". As a matter of fact, you didn't need to have an account to surf the website and view cache coordinates until 2007 or 2008. Anyone with an internet connection could grab cache coordinates. The game was much less "about the numbers" before Geocaching.com made this change, and at least in my experience of looking at logbooks of old caches, there were more people not logging online.

This post has been edited by Mr.Yuck: 09 April 2012 - 05:36 AM

[madmoose123]

Hello,

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

I personally don't mind people not signing the log as long as they mark it on the website. I feel it's a little redundant to have to log it twice. As long as you mark you found it online, or you sign the log than cool congrats on the find. I feel this way about my personally owed caches. I'm not going to remove your find if you only mark it online.

EDIT: I also don't like to waste the paper if I don't have to. Only signing online is a bit more "Green," and I'm totally cool with that.

Also, Caching is meant to be fun. If you feel like cheating it's your loss, but I'm not going to be the one who deletes a perfectly innocent find.

This post has been edited by madmoose123: 13 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

[baloo&bd]

madmoose123, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

Since you never found the cache, how can you justify logging it as found. Can we do this also when we see a guardrail or lamp post near GZ?

See this post in a similar thread for an example of why it is reasonable to delete your log.

This post has been edited by baloo&bd: 13 April 2012 - 04:23 PM

[Clan Riffster]

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

madmoose123, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

Since you never found the cache, how can you justify logging it as found.

Didn't he say he located it?

[baloo&bd]

Clan Riffster, on 13 April 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

madmoose123, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

Since you never found the cache, how can you justify logging it as found.

Didn't he say he located it?

See the message I referenced. How did he know he spotted it?

[firestronaut]

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Clan Riffster, on 13 April 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

madmoose123, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

Since you never found the cache, how can you justify logging it as found.

Didn't he say he located it?

See the message I referenced. How did he know he spotted it?

I think you're reading too much into his choice of words.

[TeamTwoStar]

This is just my opinion but I would just let it go. Smiley Faces don't equal points. That is something that people get confused. Your number of finds is not equal to how fast you are or what your skills as a cacher or anything. It is your own personal acheivement. I have 424 finds and if I lied about the number of finds I have had, I am cheating myself and no one else. If they want to lie and say they found something they didn't, let them. Like I said, in the long run, they are only hurting themselves.

So yeah, I would let it go. It is just a game, don't let them spoil it for you.

[Black Dragon 3]

hairball45, on 08 April 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I think I have questioned exactly one log on one of my caches. The name on the online log was unfamiliar, so I checked the profile and learned that the finder was from Japan, and didn't show any other logs for a cache in the States. The cache is in a rural location in Central Ohio. It sounded kind of fishy to me, so I drove out and took a look. Lo and Behold, there was his signature. Why only one cache on a stateside visit? Why mine in an obscure location in Ohio? Heck if I know, but it gave me faith in the general honesty of folks. I guess this is just another thing not to get your skivvies in a bunch over.
hairball

My husband does this! We cache as a family a lot and individually sometimes. He goes abroad with work for 48 hours at a time so sometimes I will find him a cache near his hotel just to give him something to do! He also might take a TB to leave there or to visit for racking up mileage. It didn't occur to me that the CO might be thinking "Hmmm strange cacher from England comes and does only one cache in Singapore/wherever...wonder if he's cheating..?!"

[tozainamboku]

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Clan Riffster, on 13 April 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

madmoose123, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

Since you never found the cache, how can you justify logging it as found.

Didn't he say he located it?

See the message I referenced. How did he know he spotted it?

You gave the example of the unusual case of a decoy cache. Even I agree there are certain hides where a cache owner may want to be sure you signed the log to show you found the actual cache and not a decoy, or to prove you opened a puzzle box container. These sorts of hides are pretty rare and most people can tell (at least if they look at the write up or in previous logs) that there is some special situation where you ought to at least look at the physical log (and were signing the log proves that you did this). The truth is, in the overwhelming majority of cases, you don't need to do this to know you found the cache.

Believe it or not, I nearly always sign the log because I agree with baloo&bd that it's the best way to be 100% sure you found the cache and not something else. Sill, if I owned a cache with a decoy or one that needed a TOTT to retrieve, I don't think I would delete online finds based on the the physical log not being signed. I might have a "Hall of Shame" on the cache page to list people who logged a find whom I thought didn't actually retrieve the cache, but I don't see any requirement that I delete anyone's find.

TeamTwoStar, on 13 April 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

This is just my opinion but I would just let it go. Smiley Faces don't equal points. That is something that people get confused. Your number of finds is not equal to how fast you are or what your skills as a cacher or anything. It is your own personal acheivement. I have 424 finds and if I lied about the number of finds I have had, I am cheating myself and no one else. If they want to lie and say they found something they didn't, let them. Like I said, in the long run, they are only hurting themselves.

So yeah, I would let it go. It is just a game, don't let them spoil it for you.

The key point is that the online logs are not a score no matter what any particular individual thinks. If someone is posting finds because they think it is improving their score and they do this for caches they know they didn't find, I'd wouldn't say they are hurting themselves, but they are certainly having some issues with understanding the object of geocaching. In some cases I might consider these bogus logs and delete them if they give a false impression of the state of the cache or effected other cachers negatively. One the other hand, if we are talking about are people using the online find log to share their experiences and keep a record of caches they have found, then they have decided they have met whatever their definition of a find is. It may not be the same definition that your or I use, but if it is a reasonable definition "there's no need to get one's knickers in a twist" (to quote someone who should know).

[baloo&bd]

tozainamboku, on 14 April 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

The key point is that the online logs are not a score no matter what any particular individual thinks.

For the ones this is true for, you will never hear a complaint or justification for not signing the log when they are deleted. To be honest, in all the threads you participate in, you seem to be the most vocal about maintaining a scorecard and protecting "counts".

[Clan Riffster]

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Clan Riffster, on 13 April 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

baloo&bd, on 13 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

madmoose123, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally, I don't mind people not signing the log. There are times IMHO that signing the log isn't practical like in high Muggle areas. I'm guilty of this. I'll be looking for the cache, spot it, and mark it on my iphone as found. I don't make a grab for the cache if there is risk of being seen.

Since you never found the cache, how can you justify logging it as found.

Didn't he say he located it?

See the message I referenced. How did he know he spotted it?

Because he said so. Right there. In red.

[knowschad]

I'm guessing that most of the "logged online but didn't sign the log" crowd are groups of cachers signing the log with one "name" (around here, "BAG" for "Big-4$$-Group" is common, but it can be any made up name) and then they each log online individually. Groups like that rarely trade swag... they don't want to take the time. The interest is in getting to the next cache.

[tozainamboku]

baloo&bd, on 14 April 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

tozainamboku, on 14 April 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

The key point is that the online logs are not a score no matter what any particular individual thinks.

For the ones this is true for, you will never hear a complaint or justification for not signing the log when they are deleted. To be honest, in all the threads you participate in, you seem to be the most vocal about maintaining a scorecard and protecting "counts".

People log the find online because this is a record of their geocaching experiences and this is how they keep track of the caches they have found. When an owner deletes the log because he doesn't agree with the logger's definition of a find he ruins that person's record of their geocaching experience by denying them the ability to share their experience using the log type they see fit to use, and prevents them from tracking the caches they have completed on Geocaching.com (except if they happen to be a premium member and can ignore the cache).

To be honest, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion after all the threads where I have expressed my belief that there is no connection between signing a physical log and logging a find online, that it has anything to do with a scorecard or smiley counts.