[gabryel67]

Good morning.
my topic is for reviwer
i am located in military base oversea.Here, geocacher could not going out of the base, sometime very small one.
a lot of geocacher are spend 4 month to one year on those bases.
we would like to inprove the number of cache all around.
we are facing to the problem of proximity between cache ( 1/10th mile).
due to the fact that the geocache field game is very small in this case, i would like that reviwer are a little bit more complient, and autorise , in this case, a rule of 1/20th.

any comment, and question will be nice

Gabryel67

This post has been edited by gabryel67: 10 April 2012 - 06:03 AM

[Keelmann And Cici]

Geocaches are allowed on a military base??

[Pup Patrol]

Keelmann And Cici, on 10 April 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

Geocaches are allowed on a military base??

Yes, or else the OP wouldn't be posting.

For example:

GC2CWQD

GC1K0YG



B.

[Mark+Karen]

You aren't allowed to have caches which require an entrance fee to get into grounds yet you can have ones which require a military pass?! Crazy.

IMO the saturation guidelines shouldn't be relaxed, such caches should just be banned.

This post has been edited by Mark+Karen: 10 April 2012 - 07:02 AM

[gabryel67]

yes,
no profit should be make.
if you look in irak or afghanistan, you can find geo cache almost only on base , for sure .

[The A-Team]

Keelmann And Cici, on 10 April 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

Geocaches are allowed on a military base??

Yes, but the matter of permission is very serious in these cases. There were several hidden around the Kandahar Airfield where the Canadian Forces were stationed. A little over a year ago, word came down from above that geocaching was being banned on the base. See this note posted on one of the caches:

Quote

It’s a sad day for Geocaching in Afghanistan. COMKAF is outlawing Geocaching. Anyone caught placing a Cache will be charged. I recommend pulling your caches before morning, or they will be removed and destroyed.

Unexpected, mysterious containers on a military base can be very serious. For anyone wanting to hide caches on a military base, you MUST go through your chain of command to make sure you have approval to do so.

[J the Goat]

To the OP: there's a very good chance that your reviewer won't read these forums. Send them an email through their profile directly to get in contact with them.

[briansnat]

Not a getting started issue

[NanCycle]

Mark+Karen, on 10 April 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

You aren't allowed to have caches which require an entrance fee to get into grounds

btw, this isn't true. There are plenty of caches that require fees to enter the grounds, such as in many state parks. There's even an attribute which denotes that a fee is required.

[FrodeBS]

I might be sidestepping this topic a bit, but how should I interperate point 6 from http://www.geocachin...guidelines.aspx ?

Quote

• Fundamental Placement Guidelines
  • All local laws and documented land management policies apply.
  • You assure us that you have the landowner's and/or land manager's permission before you hide any geocache, whether placed on private or public property.
  • Geocaches are never buried.
  • Geocache placements do not deface or destroy public or private property.
  • Wildlife is not harmed in the pursuit of geocaching.
  • Geocaches are not placed on school property or military bases.
  • Geocaches should generally be at least 0.10 miles or 161 meters apart.
  • Geocaches are allowed in space, other planets and spacecraft.

[Glenn]

FrodeBS, on 10 April 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

I might be sidestepping this topic a bit, but how should I interperate point 6 from http://www.geocachin...guidelines.aspx ?

Quote

6. Geocaches are not placed on school property or military bases. Many primary, middle and secondary schools, as well as most military bases do not allow geocaching within their borders. Further, it is inadvisable to place geocaches near schools or military bases as the borders shown on a map may be inaccurate. Geocachers who are actively searching for a cache are likely to arouse suspicion in such environments, and we want to avoid this situation.

While the short description does read are not placed the long description expands on the thought.
It says MOST military bases, not all.
It says INADVISABLE to place, not prohibited.

[Keystone]

The reviewer for that part of the world already bends way over backwards to allow caches on military bases. Elsewhere in the world, this would be unheard of - but your reviewer is experienced and accommodating of the special circumstances.

So now you're taking him to task for not publishing your cache 411 feet away from the neighboring cache?

[gabryel67]

in fact my reviewer do not want to publish my geocache.
this one is 160 meter from an other, in a different area.
the first one is a traditional cache, mine an unknow one.
you could not go directly from one to the other one.

i just one reviewer a little bit more flexibable, and understanding that every conoutry are different.

thanks

[firestronaut]

But the guidelines are there for a reason. Unless your country is 160m wide, I don't see the problem. Just move the cache to a different spot further away?

[Keystone]

Unless and until I am told that, as a civilian tourist, I can stroll onto this military base any day of the week to find the caches there with no special permission, I am of the opinion that the local reviewer is already demonstrating remarkable flexibabability.

[Glenn]

The guidelines are just that. A guide to cache placement. They are not law. It takes working with your reviewer but exceptions can be made in exceptional cases.

[gabryel67]

thanks to all.
like every communoty, some are agree some not.

it is very hard in this case here to find a good and permanent place.
this initiate my request.
this will be very appareciate bu the geocacher community here
thanks

[GeoJunkie]

I've had a couple deployments - one to Iraq a couple years ago and now I'm in Afghanistan. For both deployments, it's the same reviewer, who I believe covers all the deployed areas. And, yes, there is a special dispensation for military bases in deployed areas. I think it's because those of us that are deployed are not allowed OUTSIDE those bases to cache. We only go "outside the wire" on specific missions, and then caching is far too dangerous. So for the vast majority of the cachers in this region, military bases are the "open access" areas, while areas outside are "restricted access".

Caching is a great activity to help pass the time during deployment during our occasional down times, and makes trips to other safe locations fun because we can find more caches! However, as the OP alluded to, the bases can be pretty small. At the Kabul International Airport, there are about a dozen caches, and it's now completely saturated. Some locations are small enough that one or two completely saturates it. Unusually, though, it does appear that there used to be some flexibility in the .1 mile limit at some point, because some caches are much closer than that (in one case, the final location of a multi is within 10 meters of another cache!)

I don't know what drove this change, but it is the same reviewer who's been doing it for at least the last 4+ years, so there is probably some reason.

I do think contacting the reviewer will help. Of course, another unique challenge is that this is a NATO location. Most places, the reviewer speaks the same language as the placers, but we have cachers from over 40 nations all together here - so it's a little different.

[OZ2CPU]

>the final location of a multi is within 10 meters of another cache!)

that is just very bad, since it is very likely to be found by mistake when they look for the other one !
you should fix that, so it is atleast 50-100m
if you play inside a closed military area, then the game is not really open for the normal geocachers
that is why your game is not the same as normal geocaching, and should simply not be puplished like normal geocaches,
Why not make an internal document with discriptions and cordinates
and play your own game, make your own rules that fit your special area,
we do this all time with our kids or friends, no need for it to use geocaching.com to be fun.

[gabryel67]

hello,
if you want to geocache here in Aghanistan no problem, i invite you. and give you access. when did you come ?

[Walts Hunting]

Mark+Karen, on 10 April 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

You aren't allowed to have caches which require an entrance fee to get into grounds yet you can have ones which require a military pass?! Crazy.

IMO the saturation guidelines shouldn't be relaxed, such caches should just be banned.

You are allowed to have caches where a fee is required. There are many in parks that charge. Around 50 or so in Yellowstone. There have been posts before about bases in a war zone which it sounds like this case where are caches. I guess the reviewers exercise for them which is good. As to reducing distance I would vote no. This subject comes up often and the general opinion has always been no.

[GeoJunkie]

OZ2CPU, on 11 April 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

>the final location of a multi is within 10 meters of another cache!)

that is just very bad, since it is very likely to be found by mistake when they look for the other one !
you should fix that, so it is atleast 50-100m

I agree. However, the cache is there - and not being updated by the COs, and since it was already approved and not having any issues with current cachers in the area, I don't necessarilly a problem.

Quote

if you play inside a closed military area, then the game is not really open for the normal geocachers
that is why your game is not the same as normal geocaching, and should simply not be puplished like normal geocaches,
Why not make an internal document with discriptions and cordinates
and play your own game, make your own rules that fit your special area,
we do this all time with our kids or friends, no need for it to use geocaching.com to be fun.

That's kind of a non sequiter, since really the entire COUNTRY is not open for normal geocachers. Caches hidden "outside the wire" are also called IEDs. In this case, the only place where "normal" geocaching can take place is on military installations. Anywhere else is too dangerous.

This is why they're guidelines and not hard and fast rules - and why there's a dedicated reviewer is very capable of enforcing the rules properly for this area. The caches meet the intent of the rules.

[ScoutDadNC]

OZ2CPU, on 11 April 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

if you play inside a closed military area, then the game is not really open for the normal geocachers
that is why your game is not the same as normal geocaching, and should simply not be puplished like normal geocaches,
Why not make an internal document with discriptions and cordinates
and play your own game, make your own rules that fit your special area,
we do this all time with our kids or friends, no need for it to use geocaching.com to be fun.

Really!!!

Some times service members just want a little bit of home to take the edge off and have some sanity left. I personally wish I had known about geocaching when I was in Iraq. I would have loved to add a few interesting countries. Why not let those that serve have the game. No need to make special concessions, just because not everyone can get there. If that was the case then some of the tunnel series would not be allowed because not everyone can navigate tunnels.

Onto the OP. I understand your concern with the saturation rule. I would talk with your reviewer. Maybe there is a dividing fence. Maybe there is something that makes the spot different or special. I only caution trying to hide one that close for a reason of, because I can. If it is something that makes the area special/unique, then mention that. Also check on the status of the other cache. Many finds? Is that a good Locations? Sometimes you may have just been beaten to a good location.

Build your case with your reviewer. discuss it with him/her and see what you can do.

Worst case, walk around, you may find a better place on the base.

[gabryel67]

thanks for you attention.

this cache is 115m flight distance, and 165m walking.\
my cache is unknow, the other standard.
my is fixe an a wall with nice dissimulation box.
it will be very hard to move them because the place is "perfect" ( that is why i tried to make this this publish).

i do not want special exeption for me. but a special concern for geocacher who want to find nice, and funy cache during there tour here.
i am on the way to maintain some here, because 50 % are in very bad shape.
and maybe look if it is possible to move one of the 10m proximity one. GC237ZB

i hope the reviiewer read this topic, and change is mind.
thanks

[OZ2CPU]

oh, the 161meters is walking distance, it is often approved to have a cache UNDER 161 meters to another one,
if no one can drive or walk the direct air distance, like if you need to find a bridge to get to the other side
or there is a high wall, with a cache on each side, those get approved fine too.

the other one with just 10m is offcourse a problem, at least in the "normal" world :-)
they will get mixed up and found wrong, of them the CO's should fix it
or maybe the hints are VERY good and veru different, so there is no mix up
its your game there, play it like you want,
but caches placed anywhere else should follow the normal guidelines so people get what they expect.

I love your IED line :-)
man that gave me a few things to think about.. love and good luck down there, take care.

[Glenn]

GeoJunkie, on 11 April 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

OZ2CPU, on 11 April 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

>the final location of a multi is within 10 meters of another cache!)

that is just very bad, since it is very likely to be found by mistake when they look for the other one !
you should fix that, so it is atleast 50-100m

I agree. However, the cache is there - and not being updated by the COs, and since it was already approved and not having any issues with current cachers in the area, I don't necessarilly a problem.

I don't see a problem either. Being on military base in a war zone makes things a little different than being in downtown USA. On a military base you're not going to stumble on the cache listing and minutes later go from not even knowing what a cache is to wandering around aimlessly with your smart phone in hand like you would in downtown USA. I am willing to bet a little more than the average preparation goes in to hunting a cache on a military base. Where if the a different cache is found than the one they are looking for they would notice that the cache note or log book has a different GC#### on it and log the correct cache online.

GeoJunkie, on 11 April 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

OZ2CPU, on 11 April 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

if you play inside a closed military area, then the game is not really open for the normal geocachers
that is why your game is not the same as normal geocaching, and should simply not be puplished like normal geocaches,
Why not make an internal document with discriptions and cordinates
and play your own game, make your own rules that fit your special area,
we do this all time with our kids or friends, no need for it to use geocaching.com to be fun.

That's kind of a non sequiter, since really the entire COUNTRY is not open for normal geocachers. Caches hidden "outside the wire" are also called IEDs. In this case, the only place where "normal" geocaching can take place is on military installations. Anywhere else is too dangerous.

This is why they're guidelines and not hard and fast rules - and why there's a dedicated reviewer is very capable of enforcing the rules properly for this area. The caches meet the intent of the rules.

Interesting thought. I am glad you are being inclusive. You could have gone the way that others have here and called for exclusion. Since you the caches in Afghanistan and Iraq that aren't on a NATO military base are off limits to you and a large group of people then they should be archived. It's essentially the same argument.

[Mitragorz]

These men/women are out there fighting for our country. I say let them place as many caches as they want!

And I thank them for their service.

[gabryel67]

hello
as sayed here, the rule are guideline and could be adapted.
some people who never cache in other country, never face to the problem that we have.
i have no news from my reviewer since a week.

i am very deaapointed about this issue.
never the less, geocaching still stonger for me.

see you some where around the world.