[lamoracke]

Yes, but we all know there are 5/5s and there are 5/5s. Most of my 5 terrains are probably not justified save the fact they are listed as 5 terrain and I signed them. One I walked to through the back door of a place vs taking a boat. Some were just misrated. Some I took a ferry boat to. One was a diving cache and my friend did the diving instead of me. Some were just challenge caches (ie 100 virtuals or 100 traditionals).

Our 81 fizzy grid combos are not scientifically accurate, nor ever will be.
Our definitions of a find are often debated (wet logs, no pen, leapfrogging, replacement containers, PAFs, missing logbooks)

As an analyst, I would think there would be value to know how many folks found the cache on their own vs had help, but its never going to happen. Whether laziness, differences of opinions, dishonesty, shame, pride, whatever, folks will never be honest in such a system, even if you were not just being sarcastic. Folks won't even log their DNFs as a rule (and never mind how many DNFs would be prevented if not for PAFs!). We're not going to have accurate stats on a given cache that any one person will agree on.

So, I found it or I did not found it.

[AZcachemeister]

lamoracke, on 11 April 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

So, I found it or I did not found it.

And considering all the 'puritan' angst over even that simple statement, you are better off counting the faeries dancing on the head of your pin.

[TeamTwoStar]

ChileHead, on 11 April 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

People confuse smile count with score.

LOL, PERFECT. Thumbs Up!!

I really can't say anything that is better than this. You hit the nail on the head.

To Bob:
You know the log, the hints, going geocaching with freinds that is all part of the fun of geocaching. Their aren't any rules that exclude multiple people going out and caching together. For me one of the best parts of geocaching is that it is a social game, something you can do with family and freinds. A system that penializes you for playing with you friends is not right. Just go out and find the boxes, have fun while doing it, that is what it is all about.

[waterloo.bob]

TeamTwoStar, on 12 April 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

ChileHead, on 11 April 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

People confuse smile count with score.

LOL, PERFECT. Thumbs Up!!

I really can't say anything that is better than this. You hit the nail on the head.

To Bob:
You know the log, the hints, going geocaching with freinds that is all part of the fun of geocaching. Their aren't any rules that exclude multiple people going out and caching together. For me one of the best parts of geocaching is that it is a social game, something you can do with family and freinds. A system that penializes you for playing with you friends is not right. Just go out and find the boxes, have fun while doing it, that is what it is all about.

Yup, you're right and that's what I said. Off today with a friend to do exactly that.

[Joshism]

waterloo.bob, on 11 April 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

It saddens me to think that some people took this seriously

I think the forum is too used to people making suggestions like this in complete seriousness.

[Straight-Cache-Homey]

Joshism, on 13 April 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

waterloo.bob, on 11 April 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

It saddens me to think that some people took this seriously

I think the forum is too used to people making suggestions like this in complete seriousness.

I've only been here a few weeks and this is the most seriously-taken forum I've ever been a part of

[jellis]

If we all found caches on our own with no help from anyone else I don't think this would he as much fun as it is now.
I brought up how I had made more friends caching then anything else. And not just cachers in my own area but many different areas. Talking to them, exchanging ideas and help, teaming up to find them. In fact today I helped a friend from WA to do a webcam in Oregon from here in California.
Made friends with cachers I never even met and may never meet.

This post has been edited by jellis: 13 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

[Mr.Yuck]

This thread is still around? I almost forgot about it. I have to say, we're not accustomed to people with like 15 posts dropping parodies on us. Now Vinny, from Vinny and Sue Team? He could drop parodies on us. Like when he offered to adopt all the Geocaches in the world after the rapture.

I'll assume Bill is being honest. If I remembered who he was, I'd suggest to the guy who started the thread about a year ago about just looking at hiking caches in California, and not bothering to actually open them, that he come back with a 2nd post that he was "just kidding" also. Would have worked for him too.

[knowschad]

Thank you for that nice welcome, and it's
great to be here surrounded by...well, just
surrounded. We have family, friends, relatives,
faculty, staff - they're all here, and they're all
celebrating the same exact thing today: my graduation.

I promise to keep this relatively brief, but just in case
I forget, you should all probably take a bathroom break right about now.

[NYPaddleCacher]

knowschad, on 14 April 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Thank you for that nice welcome, and it's
great to be here surrounded by...well, just
surrounded. We have family, friends, relatives,
faculty, staff - they're all here, and they're all
celebrating the same exact thing today: my graduation.

I promise to keep this relatively brief, but just in case
I forget, you should all probably take a bathroom break right about now.

Thank you for posting this because that was what I was picturing every time I saw the thread title.

[Chrysalides]

I would like to have different DNF frownies for different reasons of DNF. Like "Needed to call off the search because I need a bathroom break".

This post has been edited by Chrysalides: 15 April 2012 - 10:13 PM

[niraD]

Actually, a DNS (Did Not Search) smiley type might be useful. Maybe something like this:

[TeamTwoStar]

I've got an Idea!! No Blue Frowney faces for DNFs. It sould be a blindfolded smiley face or a smiley face with a hand up showing the "I'll be right back in a minute" hand gesture. That would be more descriptive. It would say, " I didn't get it this time but I will be back!" And the Blue Smiley face for the 3 difficulty micro cache right next to the Dumpsters that... you just never want to go back to, Ever.

[lookout.]

waterloo.bob, on 10 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I vividly remember my first cache. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to look at the logs before I went searching because it seemed like I was cheating.

While I was out rummaging about for that first cache a very experienced cacher happened to come to the same cache and I asked the question, 'is looking at logs cheating?'.

He said he looked at anything which would help him with the find and I took that as standard operating procedure. From then on I've been doing the same. Well sort of.

Don't get me wrong I see the value in logs. If a cache needs maintenance or there is something amiss with the site what a great way to find out.

But, you know, it's the other stuff, the hints and the like that still don't seem quite kosher. The CO can give a hint should he/she choose. It's the stuff beside 'what a wonderful day for caching I had with my kids and dog' that I know we've all seen.

What brought this to a head for me is a local five star (difficulty) cache that has spawned all kinds of questionable behaviours - again, to my mind at least. You can check it out - GC2BBBQ. I've spent more than a ridiculous amount of time trying to find it to no avail. (And learned a valuable lesson in the process - some caches aren't worth it. Spend the time on enjoyable challenges instead.)

That said some may now think that this is simply sour grapes, so I want to make this point perfectly clear. If you are happy finding a cache by whatever means, then good on you.

I just think that a cache found by yourself without any assistance is somehow worthier of a smiley face than a cache where people have been 'given a hint', or was 'told where it is', and/or 'was told where it is and used a mob to find it', or 'been on a phone while being directed to it' and so on.

So I propose a revision of "Select Type of Log".

"Found it" should have sub-categories depending on the amount of assistance was used for the find.

A graduated declining smiley face seems appropriate.

I've put up a web page so you can see the icons and explanations as I can't seem to upload them here:

http://www.bobnixon....atedsmiley.html

But for text only here it is:

yellow complete smiley face - you've found the cache on your own or with your family

no colour complete smiley face - 'used logs for other than cache status update'

blank smiley face one eye missing - 'you found the cache with a friend'

blank smiley face two eyes missing - 'had a hint'

blank smiley face two eyes and mouth missing - 'found it with a mob'

blank smiley face two eyes and mouth and head missing - 'was told where it was'

an 'X' for 'do not even get to make a log entry' - 'found it while on a cell phone while being directed to where it is'

a representation of something I'll leave to your imagination for someone who posts 'easy find' after being told or being led to where it is - 'banned from logging attempts forever'

Your thoughts as to the ethics of assistance would be most appreciated.

how is finding it with you family or friends not considered a "mob." Also, if i find it with 1 friend and you find it with your family of 7 according to your rank i get "less of a find."

[A & J Tooling]

I log my dnf's. You know what is bad about logging a dnf? People take pity on you and send you clues you never asked for!

[waterloo.bob]

@lookout - guess you didn't read the 'humor' part

This post has been edited by waterloo.bob: 17 April 2012 - 08:39 AM