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I just recently found a cache Spy Games that had a hint. The hint is 'Not in a Sprinkler Head'
Now, 'Not in a Sprinkler Head' is in and of its self good information. The actual cache is close to several sprinkler heads. I would imagine some cachers might take to tearing apart sprinklers without this information. And that's my point. Why hide useful information that protects property in a hint that some won't read at all and many won't read unless they get stuck.
I say put information that protects property right in the description so everyone knows not to trample the flowers or rip up the bushes or tear apart sprinkler heads. Hints should just be nudges in the right direction for those who want extra help, not required information for all.
There's my .02. Btw, I'm sure somebody is going to point out that I'm complaining with zero hides myself. To those I'd like to offer a preemptive 'stuff it'
: )
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Hint Etiquette
#2
Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:49 AM
You should post a DNF and write: "Took apart 3 sprinkler heads looking for this cache. No luck. Read the hint when I got home. That explains why I didn't find it." Might scare the owner into putting that information into the cache description.
This post has been edited by L0ne R: 26 April 2012 - 08:50 AM
#3
Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:55 AM
I'm not sure I'd call it "etiquette", but I think you make a good point. But I think I can explain what's going on. Hints are something of an anachronism, at least around where I cache. Everyone I talk or cache with typically reads the hints right away in the field, and it seems clear that most COs expect that. That makes the "hints" paradoxically a good place to put crucial information such as "don't mess with the sprinkler heads", since someone on the hunt is more likely to read the hint than the description.
I'm not saying I like it, anymore than I like puzzle caches that literally cannot be solved without reading the hint. But I think we have to face that it's a fact of life. And I, for one, will openly admit that when I'm out looking for a cache, 9 times out of 10 I'll read the hint, but only once out of 10 will I read the description all the way through to that little sentence at the end that tells me not to mess with the sprinkler heads or tells me exactly how I should rehide the cache. So I have to admit that it works well.
I'm not saying I like it, anymore than I like puzzle caches that literally cannot be solved without reading the hint. But I think we have to face that it's a fact of life. And I, for one, will openly admit that when I'm out looking for a cache, 9 times out of 10 I'll read the hint, but only once out of 10 will I read the description all the way through to that little sentence at the end that tells me not to mess with the sprinkler heads or tells me exactly how I should rehide the cache. So I have to admit that it works well.
#4
Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:08 AM
I think I'd put Not A Sprinklerhead in the first couple lines of Cache Description.
#6
Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:41 AM
CatfishPilot, on 26 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:
I just recently found a cache Spy Games that had a hint. The hint is 'Not in a Sprinkler Head'
Now, 'Not in a Sprinkler Head' is in and of its self good information. The actual cache is close to several sprinkler heads. I would imagine some cachers might take to tearing apart sprinklers without this information. And that's my point. Why hide useful information that protects property in a hint that some won't read at all and many won't read unless they get stuck.
I say put information that protects property right in the description so everyone knows not to trample the flowers or rip up the bushes or tear apart sprinkler heads. Hints should just be nudges in the right direction for those who want extra help, not required information for all.
There's my .02. Btw, I'm sure somebody is going to point out that I'm complaining with zero hides myself. To those I'd like to offer a preemptive 'stuff it'
: )
Now, 'Not in a Sprinkler Head' is in and of its self good information. The actual cache is close to several sprinkler heads. I would imagine some cachers might take to tearing apart sprinklers without this information. And that's my point. Why hide useful information that protects property in a hint that some won't read at all and many won't read unless they get stuck.
I say put information that protects property right in the description so everyone knows not to trample the flowers or rip up the bushes or tear apart sprinkler heads. Hints should just be nudges in the right direction for those who want extra help, not required information for all.
There's my .02. Btw, I'm sure somebody is going to point out that I'm complaining with zero hides myself. To those I'd like to offer a preemptive 'stuff it'
: )
You really think writing anything on the cache page is going to stop people from tearing stuff apart.
LMAO. It should be common sense not to tear anything up but it happens all the time. Also most people dont even read the cache page when out caching. Download a PQ and go. Thats how most the cachers I know cache.
#7
Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:14 AM
When I load my GPS, I get the name and hint (as well as type/difficulty/terrain/size), but not the description. So I am more likely to read the hint than the description, especially if I am caching on the fly.
#8
Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM
I think any cache that says not in a sprinkler head, assuming there is one nearby in a private property, is very helpful. Sadly most cachers will not read it in the description so probably the hint is the most beneficial. Depends how much other stuff you are writing in the hint.
If you see something near GZ, like a very prized rhododendron bush or a well crafted bird house and you do not want cachers searching there, saying to not search there is awesome to do.
Course, sometimes including or excluded an object at GZ is cryptic by the CO, which kinda irks me off sometimes. If you say not "on" a power box, sometimes the cache is "under" it. I guess as a finder one has to be careful how they read the way its worded but I prefer to just have an object excluded, not have to worry about "on" vs "inside" vs "under" etc etc.
If you see something near GZ, like a very prized rhododendron bush or a well crafted bird house and you do not want cachers searching there, saying to not search there is awesome to do.
Course, sometimes including or excluded an object at GZ is cryptic by the CO, which kinda irks me off sometimes. If you say not "on" a power box, sometimes the cache is "under" it. I guess as a finder one has to be careful how they read the way its worded but I prefer to just have an object excluded, not have to worry about "on" vs "inside" vs "under" etc etc.
This post has been edited by lamoracke: 26 April 2012 - 10:35 AM
#9
Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:30 AM
SwineFlew, on 26 April 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:
The cache name should be called, Not A Sprinklerhead. 
That's a better idea.
By the way CatfishPilot, I'll bet the thread could have run hundreds of posts without anyone pointing out you have no hides of your own. Nice combative pre-emptive strike though. 
#10
Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:33 AM
fuzziebear3, on 26 April 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:
When I load my GPS, I get the name and hint (as well as type/difficulty/terrain/size), but not the description. So I am more likely to read the hint than the description, especially if I am caching on the fly.
+10
#11
Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:10 AM
the4dirtydogs, on 26 April 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:
You really think writing anything on the cache page is going to stop people from tearing stuff apart. LMAO. It should be common sense not to tear anything up but it happens all the time.
LMAO. It should be common sense not to tear anything up but it happens all the time.Worse was a cache I looked for that clearly implied it was a sprinkler head, then GZ was on the side of a field that had sprinklers all over the place. So of course everyone looks at them, and when they seem loose -- which, of course, they all do because of all the previous cachers -- they undo them to see if that's perhaps really the cache. Pretty dumb. My second trip, I discovered said sprinkler head was hidden elsewhere on its side, not even planted in the ground looking like a sprinkler head. Not one of my favorites.
#12
Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:13 AM
Mr.Yuck, on 26 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:
SwineFlew, on 26 April 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:
The cache name should be called, Not A Sprinklerhead.
That's a better idea.
By the way CatfishPilot, I'll bet the thread could have run hundreds of posts without anyone pointing out you have no hides of your own. Nice combative pre-emptive strike though. I don't know...it a pretty common response. I think I'd take that bet.
#13
Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:20 PM
lamoracke, on 26 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:
I think any cache that says not in a sprinkler head, assuming there is one nearby in a private property, is very helpful. Sadly most cachers will not read it in the description so probably the hint is the most beneficial. Depends how much other stuff you are writing in the hint.
If you see something near GZ, like a very prized rhododendron bush or a well crafted bird house and you do not want cachers searching there, saying to not search there is awesome to do.
If you see something near GZ, like a very prized rhododendron bush or a well crafted bird house and you do not want cachers searching there, saying to not search there is awesome to do.
I've pretty much always taken an anti scorched earth approach when it comes to searching for a cache. That's probably resulted in more than a few DNFs because I was reluctant to dismantle something to try and find the cache and I'm okay with that.
#14
Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:19 PM
fuzziebear3, on 26 April 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:
When I load my GPS, I get the name and hint (as well as type/difficulty/terrain/size), but not the description. So I am more likely to read the hint than the description, especially if I am caching on the fly.
I get the description too. But usually, I'll go with the name, ratings and hint. And only read the page if I don't find it. Not the way it is intended to work, but with modern paperless, it's not a bad idea. Of course, you'd get cursed at by the people who still tranlsate ROT 13 on site, when they cannot find the cache.
We have a local who puts the name of the park in the hint. Yeah. I know I'm in Mount Arlington Park. Gupy brought me there!
#15
Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:30 PM
NYPaddleCacher, on 26 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:
I've pretty much always taken an anti scorched earth approach when it comes to searching for a cache. That's probably resulted in more than a few DNFs because I was reluctant to dismantle something to try and find the cache and I'm okay with that.
Very strongly agree. There are so many caches now that there's just no point in risking damage to something.
#16
Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:39 AM
CatfishPilot, on 26 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:
Mr.Yuck, on 26 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:
SwineFlew, on 26 April 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:
The cache name should be called, Not A Sprinklerhead.
That's a better idea.
By the way CatfishPilot, I'll bet the thread could have run hundreds of posts without anyone pointing out you have no hides of your own. Nice combative pre-emptive strike though. I don't know...it a pretty common response. I think I'd take that bet.
It was a good post, made a lot of sense, and I think most people would agree with me. To be honest, I thought it was quite strange you felt the need to add "There's my .02. Btw, I'm sure somebody is going to point out that I'm complaining with zero hides myself. To those I'd like to offer a preemptive 'stuff it'" to the end of it.
#17
Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:50 AM
In New England, we have tons of old (100+ year old) stone fences. People are slowing getting away from hiding caches in them, and adding "Not in the stone wall" to the cache descriptions if the caches are anywhere near them.
I think that's a good thing.
I think that's a good thing.
#18
Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:27 AM
Mr.Yuck, on 27 April 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:
CatfishPilot, on 26 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:
Mr.Yuck, on 26 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:
SwineFlew, on 26 April 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:
The cache name should be called, Not A Sprinklerhead.
That's a better idea.
By the way CatfishPilot, I'll bet the thread could have run hundreds of posts without anyone pointing out you have no hides of your own. Nice combative pre-emptive strike though. I don't know...it a pretty common response. I think I'd take that bet.
It was a good post, made a lot of sense, and I think most people would agree with me. To be honest, I thought it was quite strange you felt the need to add "There's my .02. Btw, I'm sure somebody is going to point out that I'm complaining with zero hides myself. To those I'd like to offer a preemptive 'stuff it'" to the end of it.
Okay. I regret the last sentence. Thought it would come off as funny...but in my attempt to thwart one attack I invited another. Maybe it was funny after all.
#19
Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:31 PM
I can understand when a cache might not have a hint, but it does irk me a bit when you contact an owner and they flat out refuse to give even a nudge. If one asks if they are looking in the "right" area, I can't imagine it hurts to say "yes" or "no" to help out and keep collateral damage from happening. Am I alone in thinking it is rude to be told "Heck no" when asking for some help, even after one or many DNFs? 
#20
Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:10 PM
NeverSummer, on 02 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:
I can understand when a cache might not have a hint, but it does irk me a bit when you contact an owner and they flat out refuse to give even a nudge. If one asks if they are looking in the "right" area, I can't imagine it hurts to say "yes" or "no" to help out and keep collateral damage from happening. Am I alone in thinking it is rude to be told "Heck no" when asking for some help, even after one or many DNFs?
The only time I think I would accept being told "heck no" is if a cache hadn't yet been found, which I have seen several times on difficult puzzles. Other than that, I can't think of a reason why not to at least answer the question "Am I in the right area?"
#21
Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:33 PM
The A-Team, on 02 May 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:
NeverSummer, on 02 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:
I can understand when a cache might not have a hint, but it does irk me a bit when you contact an owner and they flat out refuse to give even a nudge. If one asks if they are looking in the "right" area, I can't imagine it hurts to say "yes" or "no" to help out and keep collateral damage from happening. Am I alone in thinking it is rude to be told "Heck no" when asking for some help, even after one or many DNFs?
The only time I think I would accept being told "heck no" is if a cache hadn't yet been found, which I have seen several times on difficult puzzles. Other than that, I can't think of a reason why not to at least answer the question "Am I in the right area?"
That's certainly the "rule of thumb" I have grown accustomed to. However...there have been some exceptions of late in my area. Good to know I'm not crazy.
I just like to think that geocachers would like to help folks out in some way or another, rather than being obstructionist and not helpful. When one asks a simple nudge-type question, it would be great to get some help--especially after a cache has been found a few times, and one has DNFed it.
#22
Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:07 PM
I stopped at a cache right after the new year. As I was out there looking, a homeowner came out yelling that I was trespassing. Scared me off. Afterwards, when I visited the cache page, the hint said "stay on the main road - grass is private property". From that point forward, I ALWAYS read the hint. There's some valuable stuff hidden there!
#23
Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:47 PM
The hint should be the hint..not valuable information like where to park, property issues, or where not to search.
I never read the hint unless I'm stumped.
I never read the hint unless I'm stumped.
#24
Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:03 AM
For one cache, where the container was a micro ammo box, the hint was 'Hint? It's an Ammo Box, why do you need a hint?' I was just being mean, intentionally, as it was meant to be an evil hide.
Alas, two of them went missing (at 10$ each) and I switched to bison tubes. Hated to do it, but can't keep funding some thief's collection.
As a side note: the hinges rust out pretty fast on the micro ammo boxes, so replace the steel pin with copper or brass wire before putting out in the elements.
Alas, two of them went missing (at 10$ each) and I switched to bison tubes. Hated to do it, but can't keep funding some thief's collection.
As a side note: the hinges rust out pretty fast on the micro ammo boxes, so replace the steel pin with copper or brass wire before putting out in the elements.
#25
Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:46 AM
DragonsWest, on 04 May 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:
...the hint was 'Hint? It's an Ammo Box, why do you need a hint?' I was just being mean, intentionally, as it was meant to be an evil hide.
So leave the hint field blank? Just because the box is there doesn't mean you have to write anything in it.
I always print listings with the hint decrypted or decrypt them before I start searching if I'm reading the listing on a mobile device. The hint is almost always unhelpful. On the rare occasion when it actually helps us find the cache, well that's just a bonus.
#26
Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:59 AM
NeverSummer, on 02 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:
The A-Team, on 02 May 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:
NeverSummer, on 02 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:
I can understand when a cache might not have a hint, but it does irk me a bit when you contact an owner and they flat out refuse to give even a nudge. If one asks if they are looking in the "right" area, I can't imagine it hurts to say "yes" or "no" to help out and keep collateral damage from happening. Am I alone in thinking it is rude to be told "Heck no" when asking for some help, even after one or many DNFs?
The only time I think I would accept being told "heck no" is if a cache hadn't yet been found, which I have seen several times on difficult puzzles. Other than that, I can't think of a reason why not to at least answer the question "Am I in the right area?"
That's certainly the "rule of thumb" I have grown accustomed to. However...there have been some exceptions of late in my area. Good to know I'm not crazy.
I just like to think that geocachers would like to help folks out in some way or another, rather than being obstructionist and not helpful. When one asks a simple nudge-type question, it would be great to get some help--especially after a cache has been found a few times, and one has DNFed it.
I once had someone send me an email and ask for help on one of mine. It was one of those fake bolts. They said they'd searched and couldn't find it. I responded with "I hope you took your time and didn't bolt out of there." They responded with, "No we really looked, can't you please help us?"
Was I a bad person?
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