[JesandTodd]

South tiger mountain.

I didn't report it because technically he didn't do anything Illegal-other than chase me and frighten me, lol. (he was some distance off, until the end, so I just kept telling myself that I was being paranoid)

Everyone always tells me I'm being dramatic and that he was just probably running. In white jeans. With no water or backpack and not wearing running shoes.

You know when you see a stray dog, and you yell at it to go away, and it sits there for a minute and has a staredown with you thinking about if it's gonna attack you? And it's in attack stance and keeps lunging forward as of it's gonna attack now?
That. We had that.


One thing is for sure though...Bunkers are way cooler than meth labs! I bet you could hide plenty of bunkers in cougar mountain, think about all those mine shafts....

This post has been edited by JesandTodd: 04 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

[Dgwphotos]

JesandTodd, on 04 May 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

South tiger mountain.

I didn't report it because technically he didn't do anything Illegal-other than chase me and frighten me, lol. (he was some distance off, until the end, so I just kept telling myself that I was being paranoid)

Everyone always tells me I'm being dramatic and that he was just probably running. In white jeans. With no water or backpack and not wearing running shoes.

You know when you see a stray dog, and you yell at it to go away, and it sits there for a minute and has a staredown with you thinking about if it's gonna attack you? And it's in attack stance and keeps lunging forward as of it's gonna attack now?
That. We had that.


One thing is for sure though...Bunkers are way cooler than meth labs! I bet you could hide plenty of bunkers in cougar mountain, think about all those mine shafts....

Those mine shafts are very dangerous, and closed off for a reason. They are also flooded.

[Sol seaker]

Interesting thought though. cougar is well populated, but people stay on the trail more because of the danger of mine collapse. Squak would be good because there are fewer trails and fewer people.

[JesandTodd]

Yes....squak...nobody suspects squak....

[Sol seaker]

No one ever thinks about Squak, and a lot don't even know about it. Squak has some creepy vibes too, in places. Perhaps I'll stay on the trail there.

[lamoracke]

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

No one ever thinks about Squak, and a lot don't even know about it. Squak has some creepy vibes too, in places. Perhaps I'll stay on the trail there.

if you ever want company for Squak Mountain, specifically getting GC4B3 Tie Mill, I would join you happily.

[WRASTRO]

lamoracke, on 04 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

No one ever thinks about Squak, and a lot don't even know about it. Squak has some creepy vibes too, in places. Perhaps I'll stay on the trail there.

if you ever want company for Squak Mountain, specifically getting GC4B3 Tie Mill, I would join you happily.

I found it three years ago but would be happy to join a group for the hike.

[_Shaddow_]

Lightning Jeff, on 04 May 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

We all have to make our own judgments about how much risk we're willing to take on.

Pretty much nailed it. We all take risks in everything we do, we can do it while knowing what they are, or we can do it without knowing what they are. Now that we suddenly know about this one guy it seems like there's somehow more risk. But it was always there. And in fact, it's not now, since he's gone. So the reality is there is less risk now because 1) he's dead 2) you can make more informed decisions. Kind of strange how our brains turn it around backwards somehow...

[_Shaddow_]

B+L, on 04 May 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Oh yeah, and "Deliverance" is up near the top of the rankings too.

I just watched it again a little while ago

[Sol seaker]

WRASTRO, on 04 May 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

lamoracke, on 04 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

No one ever thinks about Squak, and a lot don't even know about it. Squak has some creepy vibes too, in places. Perhaps I'll stay on the trail there.

if you ever want company for Squak Mountain, specifically getting GC4B3 Tie Mill, I would join you happily.

I found it three years ago but would be happy to join a group for the hike.

Sounds great!!
I'm In.
I don't know what that cache entails, but sounds like fun.

[Dgwphotos]

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

WRASTRO, on 04 May 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

lamoracke, on 04 May 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

No one ever thinks about Squak, and a lot don't even know about it. Squak has some creepy vibes too, in places. Perhaps I'll stay on the trail there.

if you ever want company for Squak Mountain, specifically getting GC4B3 Tie Mill, I would join you happily.

I found it three years ago but would be happy to join a group for the hike.

Sounds great!!
I'm In.
I don't know what that cache entails, but sounds like fun.

Sounds like we have a group hike forming!

This post has been edited by Dgwphotos: 04 May 2012 - 08:42 PM

[JesandTodd]

I haven't don't any hikes on squak yet!! I'm on wpt 4 of Lahontan's bullit the blue sky, so squak is definitely on my radar....I've just been letting my hip heal up...

Has everybody done that multi? I'll see if I can find the GC code...

http://coord.info/GCMJ51

This post has been edited by JesandTodd: 04 May 2012 - 10:10 PM

[Sol seaker]

JesandTodd, on 04 May 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I haven't don't any hikes on squak yet!! I'm on wpt 4 of Lahontan's bullit the blue sky, so squak is definitely on my radar....I've just been letting my hip heal up...

Has everybody done that multi? I'll see if I can find the GC code...

http://coord.info/GCMJ51

Nope. I found waypoint one, but it was long ago, before they had the place for notes on the cache page. I no longer have those coords.
Sounds like a Squak assault!!
(I wonder why it was named Squak anyway?)

[hydnsek]

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

(I wonder why it was named Squak anyway?)

Google and Wikipedia are my friends:
The name "Squak" comes from the Southern Lushootseed placename /sqʷásxʷ/, which is also the source of the name Issaquah Creek and the city of Issaquah.

This post has been edited by hydnsek: 05 May 2012 - 01:05 AM

[The Jester]

JesandTodd, on 04 May 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I haven't don't any hikes on squak yet!! I'm on wpt 4 of Lahontan's bullit the blue sky, so squak is definitely on my radar....I've just been letting my hip heal up...

Has everybody done that multi? I'll see if I can find the GC code...

http://coord.info/GCMJ51

I've been stuck at wpt 6, so would be interested in joining a group.

[JesandTodd]

Did you see there were better pics available from the last finder?

This post has been edited by JesandTodd: 06 May 2012 - 06:07 PM

[gustav129]

Lightning Jeff, on 04 May 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Sol seaker, on 04 May 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Anyway, to get back on topic, It does bother me to know there are more of these guys out there, but if I haven't run into any before now, I'm not likely to in the future.

We all have to make our own judgments about how much risk we're willing to take on. I think those of us who like to cache in the lesser-traveled areas expose ourselves to somewhat more risk. Who knows what you'll find when you start exploring the stomping ground of the paranoid and criminal. I try to be deliberate about it; I've decided on the measures I'll take when I'm in such places to give myself a fighting chance if I do run into someone who has decided I should pay for some issue in his life.

JesandTodd, on 04 May 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I don't think he was playing. I think he was shocked he was found so quickly. He wasn't organized enough in his thoughts to forsee how his actions could lead people to his location.

I agree, to an extent. There was some thought put into the location of the bunker, apparently - though it was probably also delusional to think it wouldn't eventually be found, and quickly if he was being sought.

While he may not have been intent on hunting anyone down, I have little doubt that if anyone stumbled onto his bunker while he was there - before or after he killed his family - he would have tried and probably succeeded at killing the unlucky hiker/cacher.

JesandTodd, on 04 May 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I try to keep an eye out when hiking. I'm *still* nursing a strained hip ligament from the last time I hiked (ran) alone and was chased by a solo male hiker (2 months ago!). People like this living in the woods...I tell myself that sure, they are probably out there. Now I know they are. In my woods. And that's scary.

That's scary. I don't think I could outrun anyone.

"They" are definitely out there. But you don't have to be defenseless. There are any number of ways to give yourself a fighting chance. Innocent people should not have to run in fear when trying to enjoy the woods. And innocent people who go out in the woods with no plan would, I hope, at least do so knowing that's what they're doing. I mean no criticism - just a plug in favor of being mindful of small risks that can have enormous consequences.

I too take appropriate measures to protect myself. People like this are just as dangerous as dangerous animals (which is why I've always carried protection for years in the years) . With this economy the way it is, the number of people in the woods like this are only growing. Even in the larger "city" parks (like 100 wooded acres), I've seen a big increase of "hobo campgrounds", and rangers talking about not wanting to go up alone, due to the increased danger of stabbings for spare change.

Something to protect yourself is better than nothing. At the minimum, a pointed stick and a dog, all the way up to a CCW (or open carry which is legal in WA). Something in your pack is not really the best option though. If you are being charged like JesandTodd, you'd have to take the pack off, unzip it, dig through your stuff because everything shifted, and by the time you get your mace out, the person is on top of you. On a carabiner on your belt loop would be better off. Rip right through your belt loop.

Carrying something for defense is not fear, it's being prepared. If it was a matter of fear, then person wouldn't go to that area in the first place. When I have a CCW on me, that doesn't give me the false courage to go strutting through known gang areas, that's stupidity. It's about protecting yourself for the unexpected in places you are comfortable in.

And for JesandTodd's further explained situation, that's a situation where you let the person know that you have protection on you and that they need to leave you alone. Before some people who may not like the idea that I'm in the woods with a CCW, and think that I'm some trigger happy jack, anybody who has gone through the process of getting a CCW Permit whould understand that that is NOT a situation to draw and fire. It would have to escalate further before I would.

This post has been edited by gustav129: 06 May 2012 - 06:41 PM

[W7WT]

My wife and I both have CCW and have taking proper training. Since we have gotten older and I had open heart surgery and she had a stroke, we don't hit the trail much geocaching. Last week we were down in Oregon and just a reminder your Washington CCW is not accepted in Oregon. I don't believe Oregon will accept any out of state CCWs. We probably should carry it more for protection from loose or wild dogs than anything else. I have had cougars stock me in the past.

[_Shaddow_]

Anyone home?

[B+L]

_Shaddow_, on 14 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Anyone home?

I hope no one places a cache there, unless it's a CITO. The sooner he is forgotten, the better.

[_Shaddow_]

B+L, on 14 May 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

_Shaddow_, on 14 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Anyone home?

I hope no one places a cache there, unless it's a CITO. The sooner he is forgotten, the better.

They'd have to find the location first. And they won't

This post has been edited by _Shaddow_: 14 May 2012 - 08:56 PM

[_Shaddow_]

[Sol seaker]

Wow. What a mess. Yeah, needs a CITO and some plants planted. Wad it hard to find?

[JesandTodd]

Whoa! Was that today?

[_Shaddow_]

Yesterday, Monday the 15th.

It looks like they cleaned nothing up; lots of trash including full rolls of roofing paper. Inside in the back you could still see the PVC plumbing and red valve handles that were shown in the newspaper pictures. Also there were at least ten one gallon sized zip lock bags full of some gray powder, my first thought was flour or pancake mix but of course then the animals would have already gotten to it so maybe concrete mix?

Yes, it was very, very well hidden. He picked a good spot. If not for the picture they discovered taken from the site it would have been much harder and likely maybe not found at all. If not for the smoke from the fire he lit, even with the picture it would have been very time consuming to locate it.

To locate it, myself and a buddy used only the information we discussed here and saw on the news but of course it didn't go very far. A combination of clues progressively lead us to it and even when we obviously got very close due to the recent activity very near the site, it took some work to actually locate it, partly because of tracks probably due to the SWAT teams searching and covering the area and detectives afterwards.

It looks like the majority of people were flewn in and out as the trails fade significantly out as you get further away. We were also believe that we were able to determine the helicopter lift area which was maybe 150-200 yards from the bunker (fort).

Once within say 150' from one direction, it's get much more obvious that we were in the right location. He had a work area near the bunker for cutting this timbers along with a stack of maybe eight ready to go. There was very recent sawdust so we guessed that he was probably working on it right up to the time it he went into hiding. He had a small dam at the stream which I assume he used for washing.

I found the work area first and a few moments later my friend who was maybe 50' below me in elevation spotted the bunker opening from a distance. But only because to top is now cut open. Back when it was intact it would not be easy to find unless very close to it.

Even so, I am now more convinced that this was a fort done by a poorly thinking man and not a well thought out bunker done by a military thinking man. This for a few reasons. A big one is failure to cover up his work near the site and that the openings were square rather than more natural. He relied more on covering evidence of making his way to and from the site rather than the site itself. If his opening was more concealed and the cut logs not left out then someone accidentally finding the area, however unlikely, would have thought it strange but could still have written it off to hunters, foresters, kids etc. These are just my opinions though.

I think that's about it. I'll post some more pictures later.

[Sol seaker]

Wow. Congratulations on that FTF. That was a tough one. Everyone else has it easy with coordinates and all.

No cache hide?

[_Shaddow_]

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Wow. Congratulations on that FTF. That was a tough one. Everyone else has it easy with coordinates and all.

No cache hide?

Thanks, it was a fun and exciting adventure. I have to say that geocaching helped a lot.

No cache hide and probably won't divulge the exact location to anyone, I see no value in it. And probably not the general location until the undergrowth fills back in.

[JesandTodd]

_Shaddow_, on 15 May 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

It looks like the majority of people were flewn in and out as the trails fade significantly out as you get further away. We were also believe that we were able to determine the helicopter lift area which was maybe 150-200 yards from the bunker (fort).

Fort...

_Shaddow_, on 15 May 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Even so, I am now more convinced that this was a fort done by a poorly thinking man and not a well thought out bunker done by a military thinking man.

Disorganized thinking. Yes... Have to wonder why this guy didn't get help earlier. Sound like he was an easy target for any healthcare provider, in any capacity, or any LEO for that matter. I almost can't believe he got as far with his 'plans' as he did. Sad really...



I'm impressed that you found the bunker (fort)!!!

[Sol seaker]

_Shaddow_, on 15 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Wow. Congratulations on that FTF. That was a tough one. Everyone else has it easy with coordinates and all.

No cache hide?

Thanks, it was a fun and exciting adventure. I have to say that geocaching helped a lot.

No cache hide and probably won't divulge the exact location to anyone, I see no value in it. And probably not the general location until the undergrowth fills back in.

The value would be to satisfy our curiosity.


But what would be the harm in it?

This post has been edited by Sol seaker: 15 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

[JesandTodd]

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

_Shaddow_, on 15 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Wow. Congratulations on that FTF. That was a tough one. Everyone else has it easy with coordinates and all.

No cache hide?

Thanks, it was a fun and exciting adventure. I have to say that geocaching helped a lot.

No cache hide and probably won't divulge the exact location to anyone, I see no value in it. And probably not the general location until the undergrowth fills back in.

The value would be to satisfy our curiosity.


But what would be the harm in it?

I agree.... Do dish!

[_Shaddow_]

JesandTodd, on 15 May 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

_Shaddow_, on 15 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Wow. Congratulations on that FTF. That was a tough one. Everyone else has it easy with coordinates and all.

No cache hide?

Thanks, it was a fun and exciting adventure. I have to say that geocaching helped a lot.

No cache hide and probably won't divulge the exact location to anyone, I see no value in it. And probably not the general location until the undergrowth fills back in.

The value would be to satisfy our curiosity.


But what would be the harm in it?

I agree.... Do dish!

Well, for one, since it wasn't fully destroyed, there's the issue of someone fixing up the bunker for future use. Not you guys of course but the internet is forever and this forum topic won't be hard to find with a search engine. Could just be kids too which won't perhaps do it safe enough to prevent collapse.

Then there's how it reflects on me and my fellow search and rescuers which includes relationships with law enforcement. I will run it by some people and get some feedback on that part.

I will say this, the map that was posted before and that I defended is not nearly as accurate as I thought. Live and learn. Also, the photographs weren't much help either. It was of course on the northeast facing side. Also, there was no danger of the general public happening across it.

[edited for spelling as usual]

This post has been edited by _Shaddow_: 15 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

[JesandTodd]

Mmmmmalright....

I kept an eye put on my hike last week, but of course, saw nothing...
Of course, I'd never be able to find it, even with all the 'clues'.. Kinda remarkable, really...

[_Shaddow_]

JesandTodd, on 15 May 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Mmmmmalright....

I kept an eye put on my hike last week, but of course, saw nothing...
Of course, I'd never be able to find it, even with all the 'clues'.. Kinda remarkable, really...

I'm probably being way over careful

[JesandTodd]

Doubt it shaddow...

I really doubt that many people could find this (fort) based on available info including what you've already posted...

I wouldn't worry

[gustav129]

I'd be worried about booby traps still present....

[JesandTodd]

JesandTodd, on 15 May 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I wouldn't worry

gustav129, on 15 May 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

I'd be worried about booby traps still present....

True that. I'd totally be worried. But I wouldn't be worried that shaddow has given up TMI on this thread is what I meant.



(edited for brevity)

This post has been edited by JesandTodd: 15 May 2012 - 08:24 PM

[Sol seaker]

The police were worried about booby traps, but they said they didn't find any. I don't think this guy was sophisticated enough for that.

It seems he thought no one would find him based upon location alone. He wouldn't have openly been cutting wood etc if he thought anyone would find the location.

Why do they call it a booby trap anyway??

[Dgwphotos]

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Why do they call it a booby trap anyway??

They were used to catch booby birds...

[The Jester]

Dgwphotos, on 15 May 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Sol seaker, on 15 May 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Why do they call it a booby trap anyway??

They were used to catch booby birds...

From Wikipedia:

Quote

Etymology
The Spanish word bobo translates to stupid, daft, naive, simple, fool, idiot, clown, funny man, one who is easily cheated and similar pejorative terms. The slang of bobo, bubie, translates to dunce. Variations of this word exist in other languages (such as Czech and Latin), with their meaning being "to stammer". Thus, the term "booby trap" gives rise to the idea that an individual with the misfortune to be caught in the trap does so because the individual is a "booby", or that an individual who is caught in the trap thereby becomes a "booby".

The word has also been applied to the Sula genus of sea birds, with their common name being boobies. These birds, adapted for sea flight and swimming, have large flat feet and wide wingspans, making it difficult for them to run or take flight quickly. As a result, they are considered clumsy and easy to catch when onshore. They are also known for landing aboard seagoing vessels, whereupon they have been eaten by the crew.

In approximately 1590, the word began appearing in the English language as booby, meaning "stupid person, slow bird".
The phrase booby trap originally applied to schoolboy pranks, but took on its more sinister connotation during World War I.

[_Shaddow_]

The Jester, on 16 May 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Quote

Etymology
The Spanish word bobo translates to ...fool, ...clown, funny man

[lamoracke]

this case made national news even, surprised that they have not removed this bunker more than they have. They took away the explosives and am sure anything they felt worthy for evidence purposes...but that is a lot of stuff still open and a kid could get trapped in there or something. If I was in charge of that task force, I'd sure not want to leave that open bunker there like that.

[_Shaddow_]

lamoracke, on 16 May 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

this case made national news even, surprised that they have not removed this bunker more than they have. They took away the explosives and am sure anything they felt worthy for evidence purposes...but that is a lot of stuff still open and a kid could get trapped in there or something. If I was in charge of that task force, I'd sure not want to leave that open bunker there like that.

I agree with you an all of it but I don't remember hearing about explosives only typical non-military rifles

[Sol seaker]

I really didn't mean to be taken seriously with my question. I only meant to inspire bra jokes; I guess I spend too much time in off topic. sorry.

I never heard about this getting national coverage.
It sure made me think twice last time I hiked alone in a creepy area though. I've increased my efforts to find people to hike with. Even considered creating an easier alternate to the HOTM.

[JesandTodd]

Oh yea, my family back home all heard about it. Course, my mom was all freaked out because I hike alone in these parts. Poor mom..

[Sol seaker]

I know people in a few different states who know I hike alone. I kept waiting to hear from them but never did. Maybe I'll ask if they heard, but I hate to give them fuel to freak out on the next time they hear of my hikes.

[_Shaddow_]

Some pictures of the work area and stream dam

[Sol seaker]

Thanks for taking those and posting them Shaddow!!
I for one have a morbid curiosity about all this, so that helps.





And people think we trash the woods looking for geocaches.

[JesandTodd]

Way cool pics!

[lamoracke]

thanks for the pics as well. I did not mean solely explosives, but rather weapons and ammunition and the like. Explosives if applicable though.

yeah, it did make national news. It was on the national news section on MSNBC, was on a national tv network and one of my out of the state friends emailed me about it having seen it.

This post has been edited by lamoracke: 16 May 2012 - 11:14 AM

[_Shaddow_]

lamoracke, on 16 May 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

thanks for the pics as well. I did not mean solely explosives, but rather weapons and ammunition and the like. Explosives if applicable though.

yeah, it did make national news. It was on the national news section on MSNBC, was on a national tv network and one of my out of the state friends emailed me about it having seen it.

I figured but there is a big difference between explosives and legal firearms and ammunition so had to point that out. Having illegal explosives could seem to imply raising the situation up to more terrorist extreme rather than just a legal firearm owning citizen.