[medoug]

It seems like a new power trail pops up in my caching range almost weekly. I wish we could get back to quality*, not quantity, caches.

*Note, when I mention "quality", I'm not neccessarily indicating just water-tight, maintenance-free containers, but rather caches that are interesting (scenic, clever, humorous, historic, educational, etc.), ie., the type that usually receives a lot of "favorites" points. I'd LOVE to find a power trail that is made entirely of such interesting caches, but unfortunately I've yet to find one that isn't more than a points booster with very oridinary hides taking me to very ordinary places.

I guess I have the thinking that just because you "can" place caches 0.1 miles apart, does not mean that you "should".

I know everyone likes to play the game differently, but honestly, I see very few favorite points assigned to power trail caches. This seems to indicate that although cachers will seek power trail caches, they usually aren't their preferred type of hide.

Anyone care to comment?.......

[NeecesandNephews]

IBTL:laughing:

But for the record... I agree with you. If you look at my profile stats, you will see I cache mostly in the early spring, and usually just long enough to see what's new out here. There are a LOT of unfound (by me) P.T caches nearby.

[medoug]

OK. My topic, so I'll start.

Four years ago, I moved to a new area with lots of geocaches which were new to me, but I did not bother seeking very many because the vast majority of them were so "ordinary" and boring to me. Since the advent of the "favorites" system, I can now use that as a guide to take me to better "quality" caches

Because I have a full time job and several other hobbies, I don't have the time to find ALL the caches in my surrounding area. Maybe if I was retired, or had less competing hobbies, I would go out and find ALL caches, ordinary or interesting, in my area. But I don't, so I have been using the "favorites" point system to allow me to be selective and visit primarily the caches others have enjoyed. (I find my preference for caches, in general, matches well with that of the general caching community.) It has worked out well.

As I mentioned in my first post, there are very few "favorites" points assigned to caches on power trails. As a result, I don't seek many power trail caches. I'd rather find 1 interesting cache than 10 ordinary cache. So as long as my time is a limited resource, I plan to seek primarily interesting (highly favorited) caches.

Hi, I'm Doug. I'm a geocacher. I'm not about the numbers.

[jholly]

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

As I mentioned in my first post, there are very few "favorites" points assigned to caches on power trails.

Apparently you did not spend much time looking at the caches on the holy grail of power trails. Just about every cache on the ET highway has several favorites. Some have as many as a dozen. If you look at the runner up, Route 66, you will see most of the caches on that power trail have at least a couple per cache. So they do gather favorites. The major flaw in the favorite system is the points are assigned by what the person assigning the points thinks is a favorite cache, not what you think is a favorite cache.

[medoug]

jholly, on 03 June 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

As I mentioned in my first post, there are very few "favorites" points assigned to caches on power trails.

Apparently you did not spend much time looking at the caches on the holy grail of power trails. Just about every cache on the ET highway has several favorites. Some have as many as a dozen. If you look at the runner up, Route 66, you will see most of the caches on that power trail have at least a couple per cache. So they do gather favorites. The major flaw in the favorite system is the points are assigned by what the person assigning the points thinks is a favorite cache, not what you think is a favorite cache.

Look at the percentage on the favorites on those powertrails. It is very low. 3 favorites out of 500+ visits (<1%) isn't very many. I haven't attempted the ET highway, but I've seen youtube videos of people finding them and although there was some excitement in the speed attempted to hop out of the vehicle, find the cache, open it and stamp the log, then replace and hop back into the vehicle to find a large number of caches for the day, the cache itself appeared very ordinary.

This post has been edited by medoug: 03 June 2012 - 02:04 PM

[humboldt flier]

Here we go again. It must be Tuesday, or some other day that ends with a "Y".

[knowschad]

humboldt flier, on 03 June 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Here we go again. It must be Tuesday, or some other day that ends with a "Y".

Har har har.

Gee, it must be Sunday, the day for the "It must be Tuesday" response.

I happen to agree with you too, medoug. I don't think its gonna change, though. All we can do is to put out the kind of caches that we like, but frankly, I don't see it changing for the better.

[Mr.Yuck]

Well to me, the whole power trail thing comes down to "it depends". Pull the car over every 600 feet on a rural roadside? I'd rather douse myself in Gasoline, and light myself on fire. A rails to trails? It still depends. A good mix of micro, small, and regular? I'm in, as I was for the 45 or so I once found in Southern Ontario, still my only "power trail run". Identical containers, identically hidden on a rails to trails power trail? (such as film canisters hanging in a tree), not interested.

[St.Matthew]

Mr.Yuck, on 03 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Well to me, the whole power trail thing comes down to "it depends". Pull the car over every 600 feet on a rural roadside? I'd rather douse myself in Gasoline, and light myself on fire. A rails to trails? It still depends. A good mix of micro, small, and regular? I'm in.

This. Right. Here. I've done one power trail on bike and it was dull. I've done parts of another with various terrains and containers and it was very fun indeed.

[W7WT]

We are in our mid eighties and last year was a geocaching loss as I was recovering from open heart surgury and the wife had a stroke. We just got back from a most enjoyable power trail trip. The first was along the Washington side of the Columbia River on a nice forested road with great view points. All the caches were different. Then we caches our way to just south of Kennewick, Wa and did 3 different caches runs on lonely roads thru sage brush and some wheat fields. I hope to get 10,000 in my life time and with our disabilities we are limited to car travel. We enjoyed the quiet geocaching with almost no cars.
I don't like urban caches fighting traffic and few parking spaces. We do what we can do. Dick & Arlene

[CanadianRockies]

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Look at the percentage on the favorites on those powertrails. It is very low. 3 favorites out of 500+ visits (<1%) isn't very many.

Most people indicate their approval for the entire power trail by awarding a favorite point to the first and/or last cache they find along that trail. 0001-E.T. is Nevada's most favored cache with 376 points. And its 40% is a fairly impressive number. California's most favored is 001-Route 66 (25%), and the second most favored is 800-Route 66 (28%).

Power trails certainly don't appeal to everyone, but many of those who do opt to cache them seem to enjoy them.

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I haven't attempted the ET highway, but I've seen youtube videos of people finding them and although there was some excitement in the speed attempted to hop out of the vehicle, find the cache, open it and stamp the log, then replace and hop back into the vehicle to find a large number of caches for the day, the cache itself appeared very ordinary.

I haven't done any power trails longer than about 30 caches. If I do try one, then it won't be for either the quality of the caches or the numbers. It will be for the socializing and camaraderie while taking on a formidable challenge.

[L0ne R]

Mr.Yuck, on 03 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Well to me, the whole power trail thing comes down to "it depends". Pull the car over every 600 feet on a rural roadside? I'd rather douse myself in Gasoline, and light myself on fire. A rails to trails? It still depends. A good mix of micro, small, and regular? I'm in, as I was for the 45 or so I once found in Southern Ontario, still my only "power trail run". Identical containers, identically hidden on a rails to trails power trail? (such as film canisters hanging in a tree), not interested.

+1.

[L0ne R]

I tried a couple on a rail to trail last week. They were planted by someone who had a good reputation for quality caches. This was his first power trail. What did I find....cheap leaky containers. A major portion of a rail to trail was yet again used up by one cacher with cheap non-water tight caches, mostly pill bottles a few dollar store containers that come in a 4/$1 pack. Monopolizing most of a rail to trail with poor quality caches is selfish.

[AZcachemeister]

Powertrails can be fun once in a while...
In the same sense that you can survive on rice cakes and water...for a week or two.

[lamoracke]

To each their own. I have so many friends who would happily do the power trails that I can't really say too much about it except my opinion and not be invited on their party (fine with me), but no, I do not care for "power trails". Now, I do not mind that caches can be 0.1 miles apart. A few caches here or there, with different hides and maybe even different COs and are just 600 feet apart? I do not mind. However, the same hide over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

do not see how that is enjoyable experience to do all day. I will pass. I did 30 in a row once with a group who wanted to. That was my fill of the experience for the foreseeable future.

yeah, favorite points does not mean high quality in this case, in my book.

[Ohiosiouxfan]

Haven't tried one yet but we have two Rails to Trails nearby. We cache as a family and plan to bike it about 8-10 miles on a summer day and see how it goes. We are looking at it as an outing that we'll also be gcing on. If it was only for the caches, i think even the kids would mutiny with repetative finds.

[briansnat]

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

This post has been edited by briansnat: 03 June 2012 - 09:00 PM

[jholly]

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

Same can be said of LPC's, GRC's, film cans in bushes in front of businesses and tupperware that gains the attention of the bomb squad. I don't see you advocating these be done away with. At least the big power trails are along very low traffic roads with very little visibility and minimal impact.

[Don_J]

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

OK. My topic, so I'll start.

Four years ago, I moved to a new area with lots of geocaches which were new to me, but I did not bother seeking very many because the vast majority of them were so "ordinary" and boring to me. Since the advent of the "favorites" system, I can now use that as a guide to take me to better "quality" caches

Because I have a full time job and several other hobbies, I don't have the time to find ALL the caches in my surrounding area. Maybe if I was retired, or had less competing hobbies, I would go out and find ALL caches, ordinary or interesting, in my area. But I don't, so I have been using the "favorites" point system to allow me to be selective and visit primarily the caches others have enjoyed. (I find my preference for caches, in general, matches well with that of the general caching community.) It has worked out well.

As I mentioned in my first post, there are very few "favorites" points assigned to caches on power trails. As a result, I don't seek many power trail caches. I'd rather find 1 interesting cache than 10 ordinary cache. So as long as my time is a limited resource, I plan to seek primarily interesting (highly favorited) caches.

Hi, I'm Doug. I'm a geocacher. I'm not about the numbers.

It's been my observation that the type of cachers that are drawn to power trails, don't assign favorite points to any caches. To do so takes precious time that could be used finding even more caches. They don't post DNFs or hang out in the forums either. It's all about finding caches.

[Roman!]

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

[OZ2CPU]

the good thing about most powertrails are they have this info in their name,
so you can avoid them if you dont like them,
and others can easyly find then and have fun with them, if that is what they like..
what you need to learn is the MANY ways this game can be played,
and accept others no matter what they play and how.

[cezanne]

OZ2CPU, on 04 June 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

the good thing about most powertrails are they have this info in their name,
so you can avoid them if you dont like them,

But it amounts to stubborn work to add 200 or even 800 and more caches to one's ignore list.

Quote

what you need to learn is the MANY ways this game can be played,
and accept others no matter what they play and how.

Sooner or later geocaching will be legally restricted in several countries due to the negative effects caused by power trails and similar developments. Then it is not any longer about accepting how others are playing as noone will be able to play any longer.


Cezanne

This post has been edited by cezanne: 04 June 2012 - 05:41 AM

[OZ2CPU]

you are VERY right (as usual)
no caches should be placed where they generate negative attention to this sport/hobby..
if you feel a specific trail or cache do this, then contact local reviewers
complain and ask for disable / archive

[Husky_Patrol]

I recently added 10 caches to a local power trail. The trail itself is a rail trail so there's enough variation on the sides for me to have placed a few tricky caches. My goal was to make half of them difficult (one is a 4.5 terrain) and the other half easy. I figured that by doing so I would have some very simple caches for new cachers and I'd also have some more difficult ones as well. That said, I love logs and I write extensive ones when I cache, so power trails are not for me. It's also quite likely I will never do an LPC and I try to avoid most urban caches unless I've been told there's good reason to get it. For me, I could care less about numbers as I prefer quality and the adventure to the cache more than anything else. I love being in the backcountry, so those caches that are tough 10km+ hikes are right up my alley. Sure, they don't get found very often but they're not expected to be found very often.
The hard to reach backcountry caches are designed for a certain type of cacher, just as LPC's and power trails are for other types of cachers. Multi's and Puzzles exist for other cachers. We can't all be expected to enjoy the same type of caches, nor should we be expected to be. Numbers will matter more to some people, just as quality of finds will matter more to others, and that's completely OK.

This post has been edited by Husky_Patrol: 04 June 2012 - 08:18 AM

[knowschad]

Roman!, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

How on earth do you get that out of the OP?

[knowschad]

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

Marked.

(see my signature)

[geodarts]

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

I always wonder where the term "power trails" originated. To me, the real power trails may involve only a small number of caches, reached after a long hike. The use of the term to refer to repetitive caching always seems like a bit of newspeak to me. So I always call them repetitive trails, which is more accurate to my experience.

I just returned from the extraterrestial highway, although I was much too busy looking for petroglyphs, visiting historic areas or ghost towns, and skywatching to do repetitive caching. Still, I have to say that the locals along that particular trail give it positive ratings. And the caches I did not want to do were easily avoided.

They do change the game in a number of ways and make numbers rather meaningless, but I suppose that Groundspeak has no problem with the ways that it increases the visibility of the activity.

This post has been edited by geodarts: 04 June 2012 - 08:43 AM

[3doxies]

This is simply another form of entertainment...nothing more, nothing less. It seems many folks intertwine their lives and existence around this entertainment to the point that they begin to live and breathe it. It becomes the thing by which they define themselves. And so, when a corner of their world turns on them (OMG, another evil power trail! OMG, someone criticized MY chosen entertainemnt (ergo, MY life), etc), they react viscerally. Its not even a true game, folks - its entertainment...pure and simple. Find the movie/channel/station you like, and don't turn the dial to those you don't.

Interstig, though, is the concern about the negative impact of PTs: "They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching." Why so? Is there an aspect(s) of geocaching that needs to stay low visibility? Surely not. That would almost seem to suggest that there's a less desirable aspect/effect that somehow should be minimized, or fly under the radar? Interesting to see that thought...

[L0ne R]

3doxies, on 04 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Its not even a true game, folks - its entertainment...pure and simple. Find the movie/channel/station you like, and don't turn the dial to those you don't.

If a rail-to-trail were like television...... in the olden golden days there were a variety of programming catering to a variety of tastes. The programming had a nice mix of 35% PBS/Discovery programs. Then along comes Reality TV programming - cheaper to produce, mindless entertainment, ratings were great. PBS/Discovery programs get dropped for the cheaper higher-ratings reality shows. If I want quality TV I'm out of luck because all the channels and stations have succumbed to the cheaper quality entertainment.

[3doxies]

Eh...what is quality TV to one is just gawd-awful banter to another. Sport (or in this case, entertainment) mirrors life.

Not a PT fan, myself...never done one, no intention to. But the Frog has seen fit to allow them into the pond. Same deal with ECs, Waymarks, Challenges, and lots more detritus. Just gotta choose the parts of the pond you play in, and hold your nose while navigating the slime. The postiive side is that it provides plenty of impetus to broaden your entertainment horizons beyond the swamp. Lotsa good options out there.

[knowschad]

geodarts, on 04 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

I always wonder where the term "power trails" originated. To me, the real power trails may involve only a small number of caches, reached after a long hike.

I agree wholeheartedly with you there. The same thought has occurred to me recently.

[knowschad]

L0ne R, on 04 June 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

3doxies, on 04 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Its not even a true game, folks - its entertainment...pure and simple. Find the movie/channel/station you like, and don't turn the dial to those you don't.

If a rail-to-trail were like television...... in the olden golden days there were a variety of programming catering to a variety of tastes. The programming had a nice mix of 35% PBS/Discovery programs. Then along comes Reality TV programming - cheaper to produce, mindless entertainment, ratings were great. PBS/Discovery programs get dropped for the cheaper higher-ratings reality shows. If I want quality TV I'm out of luck because all the channels and stations have succumbed to the cheaper quality entertainment.

Actually, in the older days of TV had cheaper to produce, mindless entertainment like The Beverly Hillbillies, Gilligan's Island, Bewitched, and Petty Coat Junction.

[NYPaddleCacher]

cezanne, on 04 June 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

OZ2CPU, on 04 June 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

the good thing about most powertrails are they have this info in their name,
so you can avoid them if you dont like them,

But it amounts to stubborn work to add 200 or even 800 and more caches to one's ignore list.

You also can't avoid getting 200-300 email notifications when someone decides to put out a large power trail that happens to be in your local area.

[NYPaddleCacher]

Roman!, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

If someone decides to saturate an area with power trails, fill up a park with each finds such that there is no room for another cache, that effectively dictates how others not should, but *can* play the game much more than someone pointing out the negative impact of power trails in the online forums. If someone thinks that the way to play the game is to place creative containers, hidden such that it requires a bit of thinking to locate the container, in the most interesting places in an area, that does *not* dictate to those that are into playing the game for the numbers, because there's still room for other types of caches.

[NYPaddleCacher]

CanadianRockies, on 03 June 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Look at the percentage on the favorites on those powertrails. It is very low. 3 favorites out of 500+ visits (<1%) isn't very many.

Most people indicate their approval for the entire power trail by awarding a favorite point to the first and/or last cache they find along that trail. 0001-E.T. is Nevada's most favored cache with 376 points. And its 40% is a fairly impressive number. California's most favored is 001-Route 66 (25%), and the second most favored is 800-Route 66 (28%).

40% or even 28% favorites may be an impressive number for a single cache, but as you point out most people indicate they're approval for the entire trail by favoriting the first and/or last cache in the trail. If you add up all the caches on the trail, and the number of favorites on all of them, you're not going to get anywhere close to a 28% favorite percentage.

Quote

Power trails certainly don't appeal to everyone, but many of those who do opt to cache them seem to enjoy them.

Do they enjoy the caches find along the trail or do they enjoy seeing their find count go up several hundreds and the ability to claim "I found 700 caches in a single day"?

[Scubasonic]

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

It seems like a new power trail pops up in my caching range almost weekly. I wish we could get back to quality*, not quantity, caches.

*Note, when I mention "quality", I'm not neccessarily indicating just water-tight, maintenance-free containers, but rather caches that are interesting (scenic, clever, humorous, historic, educational, etc.), ie., the type that usually receives a lot of "favorites" points. I'd LOVE to find a power trail that is made entirely of such interesting caches, but unfortunately I've yet to find one that isn't more than a points booster with very oridinary hides taking me to very ordinary places.

I guess I have the thinking that just because you "can" place caches 0.1 miles apart, does not mean that you "should".

I know everyone likes to play the game differently, but honestly, I see very few favorite points assigned to power trail caches. This seems to indicate that although cachers will seek power trail caches, they usually aren't their preferred type of hide.

Anyone care to comment?.......

I guess the only comment I have is....... Just because YOU don't like Power Trails does not mean that others don't find the area of Geocaching you enjoy and go for it.

[Scubasonic]

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

I see very few favorite points assigned to power trail caches. This seems to indicate that although cachers will seek power trail caches, they usually aren't their preferred type of hide.

Anyone care to comment?.......

Hmmm well lets look at the Most Popular Power Trail, the ET Highway typically the first cache in the series get the Fav points check out 0001-E.T. GCZ2K7J so far 377 Fav Points I wouldn't say "Very few Fav points" applies

[L0ne R]

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Roman!, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

If someone decides to saturate an area with power trails, fill up a park with each finds such that there is no room for another cache, that effectively dictates how others not should, but *can* play the game much more than someone pointing out the negative impact of power trails in the online forums. If someone thinks that the way to play the game is to place creative containers, hidden such that it requires a bit of thinking to locate the container, in the most interesting places in an area, that does *not* dictate to those that are into playing the game for the numbers, because there's still room for other types of caches.

Exactly. What he said ^^^

[fuzziebear3]

knowschad, on 04 June 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

L0ne R, on 04 June 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

3doxies, on 04 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Its not even a true game, folks - its entertainment...pure and simple. Find the movie/channel/station you like, and don't turn the dial to those you don't.

If a rail-to-trail were like television...... in the olden golden days there were a variety of programming catering to a variety of tastes. The programming had a nice mix of 35% PBS/Discovery programs. Then along comes Reality TV programming - cheaper to produce, mindless entertainment, ratings were great. PBS/Discovery programs get dropped for the cheaper higher-ratings reality shows. If I want quality TV I'm out of luck because all the channels and stations have succumbed to the cheaper quality entertainment.

Actually, in the older days of TV had cheaper to produce, mindless entertainment like The Beverly Hillbillies, Gilligan's Island, Bewitched, and Petty Coat Junction.

LOL, and in those golden oldies days, we only had 4 channels, so yes, 25%+ was education, as one channel was PBS.
Now we have hundreds of channels ... but we still have PBS as one of those channels, just watch that one if you like.

[MisterEFQ]

Hi, my name is Doug too. I'm a geocacher. I don't dig power trails.

Then again I don't care if people place them either.

[Roman!]

L0ne R, on 04 June 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Roman!, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

If someone decides to saturate an area with power trails, fill up a park with each finds such that there is no room for another cache, that effectively dictates how others not should, but *can* play the game much more than someone pointing out the negative impact of power trails in the online forums. If someone thinks that the way to play the game is to place creative containers, hidden such that it requires a bit of thinking to locate the container, in the most interesting places in an area, that does *not* dictate to those that are into playing the game for the numbers, because there's still room for other types of caches.

Exactly. What he said ^^^

Any player has the right to place a cache anywhere as long as they meet guidlines, laws, etc. If someone places a power trail that area was open before and anyone else had an opportunity to place a cache but didn't. The earth is a big place, there is lots of room, just might have to walk a bit further.

[CanadianRockies]

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

CanadianRockies, on 03 June 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

medoug, on 03 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Look at the percentage on the favorites on those powertrails. It is very low. 3 favorites out of 500+ visits (<1%) isn't very many.

Most people indicate their approval for the entire power trail by awarding a favorite point to the first and/or last cache they find along that trail. 0001-E.T. is Nevada's most favored cache with 376 points. And its 40% is a fairly impressive number. California's most favored is 001-Route 66 (25%), and the second most favored is 800-Route 66 (28%).

40% or even 28% favorites may be an impressive number for a single cache, but as you point out most people indicate they're approval for the entire trail by favoriting the first and/or last cache in the trail. If you add up all the caches on the trail, and the number of favorites on all of them, you're not going to get anywhere close to a 28% favorite percentage.

We're likely discussing two different ideas here. It's important to realize that different people use favorite points for different purposes. As I noted above, I think most power trail cachers use favorite points to express their approval for the entire trail (with occasional favorite points perhaps given to individual caches that they particularly enjoyed along the trail). Most probably did the trail more for the quality of the overall experience/challenge than for the quality of the caches. If they don't give a favourite point to cache #128 along the trail, then that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't enjoy the trail.

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Quote

Power trails certainly don't appeal to everyone, but many of those who do opt to cache them seem to enjoy them.

Do they enjoy the caches find along the trail or do they enjoy seeing their find count go up several hundreds and the ability to claim "I found 700 caches in a single day"?

I'm sure some enjoy seeing their find counts go up. I'm sure others enjoy the challenge of finding a large number of caches in a single day. Others probably enjoy the socialization and camaraderie. Different people enjoy different aspects of geocaching.

This post has been edited by CanadianRockies: 04 June 2012 - 02:42 PM

[NYPaddleCacher]

Roman!, on 04 June 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

L0ne R, on 04 June 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Roman!, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

If someone decides to saturate an area with power trails, fill up a park with each finds such that there is no room for another cache, that effectively dictates how others not should, but *can* play the game much more than someone pointing out the negative impact of power trails in the online forums. If someone thinks that the way to play the game is to place creative containers, hidden such that it requires a bit of thinking to locate the container, in the most interesting places in an area, that does *not* dictate to those that are into playing the game for the numbers, because there's still room for other types of caches.

Exactly. What he said ^^^

Any player has the right to place a cache anywhere as long as they meet guidlines, laws, etc. If someone places a power trail that area was open before and anyone else had an opportunity to place a cache but didn't. The earth is a big place, there is lots of room, just might have to walk a bit further.

A predictable response, but it fails to address what I wrote.

In this thread, and others about power trail there have been many people that have written the they are not interested in doing them personally. There are others that have pointed out numerous issues related to power trails. In some cases, though fairly rare, some will even suggest that power trails should be eliminated because of the problems they can cause. Only in the latter case, could one equate that to dictating how others play the game, and in this thread, nobody has called for the elimination or reduction of powertrails.

As far as I am concerned I consider the whole "there are many ways to play the game. let others play it how they want" argument in response to some rather compelling argument about why power trails are detrimental to the game, or even a statement of a preference for a slower pace, to be a bunch of hogwash.

The fact is, placing 1000 caches has a far greater impact on those that prefer to find/place a few challenging hides, than the impact of a few challenging hide has on those that want to find or place a 1000 caches. If someone places 10 difficult hides in an area that can theoretically hold 1000 caches there are 990 other locations where caches can be placed. If someone completely saturates an area with easy park and grabs or power trails there *are* no locations left to hide/find anything else. That, to me, is the epitome of dictating how others should play the game and your best response is, "too bad, I got there first, go find somewhere else to cache?"

[NYPaddleCacher]

CanadianRockies, on 04 June 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Do they enjoy the caches find along the trail or do they enjoy seeing their find count go up several hundreds and the ability to claim "I found 700 caches in a single day"?

I'm sure some enjoy seeing their find counts go up. I'm sure others enjoy the challenge of finding a large number of caches in a single day. Others probably enjoy the socialization and camaraderie.

I've never quite understood the socialization and camaraderie argument. It seems to me that if a group of people go out geocaching for the day and goes on a hike to find a dozen caches there is a *lot* more time for socialization and camaraderie then if every minute of the day is spent racing from cache to cache.

[One90proof]

I just got into geocaching a couple of weeks ago. I've only experienced one power trail. It was a little over 2 miles in length and I think we found 13 out of 16 caches. It was just me and a buddy, and most of it was done at night. We had a blast. Good company, good exercise, and the challenge of finding micros in the trees at night. Would I want every cache to be like this? No, of course not. I appreciate the variety of the different caches I've found or read about.

[Roman!]

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Roman!, on 04 June 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

L0ne R, on 04 June 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

NYPaddleCacher, on 04 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Roman!, on 03 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Great, another person that feels entitled to dictate how others should play a game.

If someone decides to saturate an area with power trails, fill up a park with each finds such that there is no room for another cache, that effectively dictates how others not should, but *can* play the game much more than someone pointing out the negative impact of power trails in the online forums. If someone thinks that the way to play the game is to place creative containers, hidden such that it requires a bit of thinking to locate the container, in the most interesting places in an area, that does *not* dictate to those that are into playing the game for the numbers, because there's still room for other types of caches.

Exactly. What he said ^^^

Any player has the right to place a cache anywhere as long as they meet guidlines, laws, etc. If someone places a power trail that area was open before and anyone else had an opportunity to place a cache but didn't. The earth is a big place, there is lots of room, just might have to walk a bit further.

A predictable response, but it fails to address what I wrote.

In this thread, and others about power trail there have been many people that have written the they are not interested in doing them personally. There are others that have pointed out numerous issues related to power trails. In some cases, though fairly rare, some will even suggest that power trails should be eliminated because of the problems they can cause. Only in the latter case, could one equate that to dictating how others play the game, and in this thread, nobody has called for the elimination or reduction of powertrails.

As far as I am concerned I consider the whole "there are many ways to play the game. let others play it how they want" argument in response to some rather compelling argument about why power trails are detrimental to the game, or even a statement of a preference for a slower pace, to be a bunch of hogwash.

The fact is, placing 1000 caches has a far greater impact on those that prefer to find/place a few challenging hides, than the impact of a few challenging hide has on those that want to find or place a 1000 caches. If someone places 10 difficult hides in an area that can theoretically hold 1000 caches there are 990 other locations where caches can be placed. If someone completely saturates an area with easy park and grabs or power trails there *are* no locations left to hide/find anything else. That, to me, is the epitome of dictating how others should play the game and your best response is, "too bad, I got there first, go find somewhere else to cache?"

Go 161 meters either side of the trail and wow, what do you know, lots of room. As for your impact argument, then just 1 cache has an impact, is 10 OK?, is 100?, is 500?, who's gonna judge? Like I said, the earth is a big place. And yes, too bad, I got there first, be it 1 spot or 1000, someone got affected, that's life.

[hukilaulau]

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

Yep. I've said the same thing. I even said I bet GS will eventually do something to change the way they are allowed to be placed. I may be wrong about that.
A new variation is the "mini-power trail." You will see a stretch of 10 or so crappy caches along a two mile stretch of unremarkable drainage ditch. The first cache page will say something like, "I wanted to do a fun series based on Warner Brothers Cartoon Ducks so I..."
The power trail phenomenon is encouraging new cachers to set down as many as they can in whatever space they can find.

[Lady Loki]

I take the family on rails-to-trails, since we have a large number of them in the area. We typically plan a section that's 4 to 7 caches long, which works out nicely because it's not too much for the four-year-old, but it's enough to tire him out so he sleeps at night. The other nice thing is that quite a few of the RTT are paved, which means my mother-in-law can go with us in her power chair when she comes home from the nursing home (on Thursday, yay!).

I like them, but I don't "do" power trails like most people apparently think of them. And the caches we find aren't all the same, but then again, the cachers around here seem to be doing a lot of things right.

[hukilaulau]

jholly, on 03 June 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

Same can be said of LPC's, GRC's, film cans in bushes in front of businesses

I would respectfully disagree. The imapact and visibility of the major power trails is far more significant than a handful of the ones mentioned above.

[briansnat]

jholly, on 03 June 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

briansnat, on 03 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mark my words, power trails will ultimately have a negative impact on this sport. They take a low impact, low visibility activity and turn it into a high impact, high visibility activity. Bad, bad for geoaching.

Same can be said of LPC's, GRC's, film cans in bushes in front of businesses and tupperware that gains the attention of the bomb squad. I don't see you advocating these be done away with. At least the big power trails are along very low traffic roads with very little visibility and minimal impact.

Not quite the same thing. Those caches don't bring the numbers that power trails do. Yeah they cause problems but considering the hundreds of thousands of these caches out there the instances where bomb squads are called in are extremely rare.

Personally I would prefer that we didn't have so many of that sort of caches either. If I were elected geocaching czar I wouldn't exactly do away with them but I would enforce the private property, permission required clause which would effectively kill them.

This post has been edited by briansnat: 04 June 2012 - 05:29 PM