Groundspeak Forums: Etrex 20 track problem - Groundspeak Forums

Jump to content

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Etrex 20 track problem

#1 User is offline   david_adam 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 31-December 07

Posted 26 August 2012 - 09:07 PM

When I create a track of the route I have just walked then switch GPSR off, then turn it on again e.g. at home, it adds the current location to the existing track. There is a straight line (as the crow flies) from end of track to this point. Not really desirable if I want to save the track. Any ideas on how to prevent this. Software version 2.80

thanks

David

#2 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

A bug which exists in many of the new receivers, I have learned; including the eTrex x0 line and Montana. I don't think there's anything you can do to prevent it and Garmin hasn't cared much about fixing it. Could have been argued not to be a bug though - if it were not for that the speed data of the recorded straight line is incorrect - if I take a walk at home, switch off the eTrex 30, take a commuter train southbound for half an hour and turn on the receiver at the destination the "straight line" will have a recorded speed of 2000-3000 km/h!

#3 User is offline   lost19 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: 15-November 10

Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:34 AM

you have to stop recoding your tracks. you get a line because the unit starts recording again whe you turn it on. on the main menu go to set up -tracks- and hit do not record at the end of your activity .

#4 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 27 August 2012 - 07:16 AM

View Postdavid_adam, on 26 August 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

When I create a track of the route I have just walked then switch GPSR off, then turn it on again e.g. at home, it adds the current location to the existing track. There is a straight line (as the crow flies) from end of track to this point. Not really desirable if I want to save the track. Any ideas on how to prevent this. Software version 2.80

thanks

David


Easy fix...."Save" the track before you turn the unit off at the end of your track.

When you get home and download the "tracks" , the "saved" version of the track will NOT have the straight line but the "current" track WILL because it is ongoing at all times when the unit is turned on. ( if you have Track logging ON)
Just select the correct one in your list of tracks after downloading.

If you turn track logging off and on, believe me, you will forget that it is OFF until at the "wrong" end of a hike that you "Thought" you just logged.

#5 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 27 August 2012 - 07:34 AM

I do most of my track editing in another program, but it looks like that in Garmin Basecamp you can use the Select tool and click/select just on the straight line portion of the downloaded track and then just delete it.

#6 User is offline   david_adam 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 31-December 07

Posted 27 August 2012 - 04:39 PM

Thanks, everyone. Saving the track immediately sounds like to way to go.

Basecamp won't let me delete the "straight line" bit. Both Delete & Erase are greyed out.

David

#7 User is offline   sussamb 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2184
  • Joined: 15-July 11

Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:42 AM

You can delete it in Basecamp, just use the 'split track' tool then delete the straight bit :)

#8 User is offline   david_adam 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 31-December 07

Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:09 PM

I'm pretty sure this is a 2.80 software "feature" as I don't recall it happening before I recently upgrading.

In addition, a friend has an Etrex 20 and he hasn't upgraded his software from when he bought it & he doesn't have this "feature" on his.

Wonder if it will go away with version 2.90?? Is there a simple mechanism to let Mr Garmin know about this?

thanks

David

#9 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:14 AM

View Postdavid_adam, on 28 August 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:


Wonder if it will go away with version 2.90?? Is there a simple mechanism to let Mr Garmin know about this?




etrexbeta@garmin.com

#10 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:38 AM

Another problem is, by the way, how tracks are being followed. If I draw a track in Mapsource/Basecamp, upload it to the device and choose to follow it, the compass arrow won't generally point in the direction of the track and the device won't count down the distance correctly. Same goes for Trackback.

Garmin - if you happen to listen - copy those routines straight off the latest eTrex H software (or just about any other older receiver) - those work splendidly!

This post has been edited by tr_s: 29 August 2012 - 02:38 AM


#11 User is offline   sussamb 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2184
  • Joined: 15-July 11

Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:15 AM

Just send it as a route instead ... then all is well. Personally I never bother to use tracks as I find routes far more flexible.

#12 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:02 AM

View Postsussamb, on 29 August 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

Just send it as a route instead ... then all is well. Personally I never bother to use tracks as I find routes far more flexible.


Sounds rather un-smooth as a workaround. The devices generate track data upon walking, so it won't work as a workaround for trackback. Moreover, uploading as a route seems to soil the waypoint listing as a waypoint is generated for each route point.

#13 User is offline   sussamb 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2184
  • Joined: 15-July 11

Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:27 AM

I guess it depends on how you use it. Sure you can't do it with trackback but that's a feature I don't use. If you have a route loaded you can also reverse that should you need to and still get distance to destination etc.

I'm not sure what you're using to generate a route but if you use Basecamp then the route 'via points' aren't listed in your waypoint list :)

#14 User is offline   MtnHermit 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1816
  • Joined: 17-January 07

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:45 PM

View Postdavid_adam, on 28 August 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure this is a 2.80 software "feature" as I don't recall it happening before I recently upgrading.

David,

I'm sure you are correct. I had the same new "feature" you describe when I upgraded my OR 450 from v4.50 to v5.80. I subsequently downgrade to v5.50 and the problem went away. Another "feature" was a gross mismatch between the track and odometer distances. The downgrade is straightforward, search here or Google.

You're probably aware that all the STM Cartesio based receivers share a common code base. So an error in the base code affects all units. Also, Garmin doesn't test code revisions, you sir are the tester!

Isn't living with the 800# gorilla a joy!?!?! :P

#15 User is offline   russelln114 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 06-August 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:06 PM

View Postlost19, on 27 August 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

you have to stop recoding your tracks. you get a line because the unit starts recording again whe you turn it on. on the main menu go to set up -tracks- and hit do not record at the end of your activity .



View Postdavid_adam, on 27 August 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Thanks, everyone. Saving the track immediately sounds like to way to go.

Basecamp won't let me delete the "straight line" bit. Both Delete & Erase are greyed out.

David


Like lost said you have to stop the track. even if you were to save the current track you still have to stop it. Go to setup then tracks then tracklog then click on (do not record)

#16 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:59 PM

View Postrusselln114, on 29 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

View Postlost19, on 27 August 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

you have to stop recoding your tracks. you get a line because the unit starts recording again whe you turn it on. on the main menu go to set up -tracks- and hit do not record at the end of your activity .



View Postdavid_adam, on 27 August 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Thanks, everyone. Saving the track immediately sounds like to way to go.

Basecamp won't let me delete the "straight line" bit. Both Delete & Erase are greyed out.

David


Like lost said you have to stop the track. even if you were to save the current track you still have to stop it. Go to setup then tracks then tracklog then click on (do not record)


NO !.....Absolutely NOT.......This (saying the operator must stop logging) is inaccurate, erroneous, wrong information ! End of conversation !

#17 User is offline   russelln114 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 06-August 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:54 PM

View Postdavid_adam, on 26 August 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

When I create a track of the route I have just walked then switch GPSR off, then turn it on again e.g. at home, it adds the current location to the existing track. There is a straight line (as the crow flies) from end of track to this point. Not really desirable if I want to save the track. Any ideas on how to prevent this. Software version 2.80

thanks

David



View PostGrasscatcher, on 29 August 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

View Postrusselln114, on 29 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

View Postlost19, on 27 August 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

you have to stop recoding your tracks. you get a line because the unit starts recording again whe you turn it on. on the main menu go to set up -tracks- and hit do not record at the end of your activity .



View Postdavid_adam, on 27 August 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Thanks, everyone. Saving the track immediately sounds like to way to go.

Basecamp won't let me delete the "straight line" bit. Both Delete & Erase are greyed out.

David


Like lost said you have to stop the track. even if you were to save the current track you still have to stop it. Go to setup then tracks then tracklog then click on (do not record)


NO !.....Absolutely NOT.......This (saying the operator must stop logging) is inaccurate, erroneous, wrong information ! End of conversation !



Sorry Grasscatcher but i had this happen to me whenever i used my legend hcx. I called garmin and they explained to me that if I just set a track then at the end of the track just turn the gps off whenever i turn the gps on the gps will track to my current position wherever i may be at the time. I'll give you an example. Last year i set a track in the woods leading to my treestand. I saved the track and turned the unit off. Whenever i got home i turned the gps on low and behold the gps tracked me to my house. Another example is once i was setting a track in the woods when all of a sudden my gps must have turned off. Buy the time i realized this i was pretty far into my trek. When i turned the unit back on the track was connected like i never had the unit off. There was a straight line for over a thousand yards leading to my current position. I know the track wasn't right because i made several turns. David I suggest you call Garmin. They will pretty much explain this the same way as i did.

This post has been edited by russelln114: 29 August 2012 - 06:01 PM


#18 User is offline   GeoTrekker26 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 633
  • Joined: 28-June 11

Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

View Postrusselln114, on 29 August 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

View Postdavid_adam, on 26 August 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

When I create a track of the route I have just walked then switch GPSR off, then turn it on again e.g. at home, it adds the current location to the existing track. There is a straight line (as the crow flies) from end of track to this point. Not really desirable if I want to save the track. Any ideas on how to prevent this. Software version 2.80

thanks

David



View PostGrasscatcher, on 29 August 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

View Postrusselln114, on 29 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

View Postlost19, on 27 August 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

you have to stop recoding your tracks. you get a line because the unit starts recording again whe you turn it on. on the main menu go to set up -tracks- and hit do not record at the end of your activity .



View Postdavid_adam, on 27 August 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Thanks, everyone. Saving the track immediately sounds like to way to go.

Basecamp won't let me delete the "straight line" bit. Both Delete & Erase are greyed out.

David


Like lost said you have to stop the track. even if you were to save the current track you still have to stop it. Go to setup then tracks then tracklog then click on (do not record)


NO !.....Absolutely NOT.......This (saying the operator must stop logging) is inaccurate, erroneous, wrong information ! End of conversation !



Sorry Grasscatcher but i had this happen to me whenever i used my legend hcx. I called garmin and they explained to me that if I just set a track then at the end of the track just turn the gps off whenever i turn the gps on the gps will track to my current position wherever i may be at the time. I'll give you an example. Last year i set a track in the woods leading to my treestand. I saved the track and turned the unit off. Whenever i got home i turned the gps on low and behold the gps tracked me to my house. Another example is once i was setting a track in the woods when all of a sudden my gps must have turned off. Buy the time i realized this i was pretty far into my trek. When i turned the unit back on the track was connected like i never had the unit off. There was a straight line for over a thousand yards leading to my current position. I know the track wasn't right because i made several turns. David I suggest you call Garmin. They will pretty much explain this the same way as i did.


I can understand that the leg to your house would get added to the active track and I can see why it should. Are you suggesting that leg will also get added to a SAVED track? If not, and I can't imagine how it would, the saved track is complete and finished so there is no need to stop logging. To backtrack, map or retrace a track the saved track would be used.

What am I missing?

#19 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:42 AM

View Postrusselln114, on 29 August 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:


Sorry Grasscatcher but i had this happen to me whenever i used my legend hcx. I called garmin and they explained to me that if I just set a track then at the end of the track just turn the gps off whenever i turn the gps on the gps will track to my current position wherever i may be at the time....



Phew! They said that? Then it's a feature change from the older series of their GPS. My eTrex, eTrex H and eTrex Legend have NEVER done this.

Now, I could buy that if it weren't for that the speed data recorded in these "straight line legs" is incorrect by a factor of about a hundred - this spoils the average speed number. There's another thread here on that.

Sorry Garmin... I don't really believe this feature change is fully intentional.

#20 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

@russelln 114,

I STILL stand behind my last previous statement 100%.

You need to understand what it is you are seeing and learn how to operate your unit.

#21 User is offline   russelln114 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 06-August 09

Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:24 PM

View PostGrasscatcher, on 30 August 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

@russelln 114,

I STILL stand behind my last previous statement 100%.

You need to understand what it is you are seeing and learn how to operate your unit.



Pretty bold Grasscatcher. No need to get your panties in a bind.If you needed attention now your getting it. We are all on here for a reason. When people on here make things personal it gets annoying to the person who started the thread. My reply started with Sorry Grasscatcher Not I'm right and your wrong. Your post shows him how to get rid of the line using basecamp. My post shows him how to get rid of the line using his gps. The way i described to Dave was the way it was explained to me. It worked so I'm letting him know.This is not a bashing forum. It's a helpful forum. One more thing Grasscatcher. What i'm seeing and learning is that you need to calm down and relax for it's not that big a deal.

This post has been edited by russelln114: 30 August 2012 - 05:14 PM


#22 User is offline   pa.hunter 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 22-November 05

Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:45 AM

I find this all very interesting. I have a Gpsmap 62s and it does the very same thing. I have been trying for weeks to get rid of that @&$&@&$ straight line and I haven't found an easy solution yet. I had my home as a waypoint at one time and I drove my car about 20 miles to another location to hike. When I turned on my gps there was a line from my house to my new location that I had to look at all day. I hope someone can come up with a solution.

#23 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 31 August 2012 - 05:24 AM

View Postpa.hunter, on 31 August 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

I find this all very interesting. I have a Gpsmap 62s and it does the very same thing. I have been trying for weeks to get rid of that @&$&@&$ straight line and I haven't found an easy solution yet. I had my home as a waypoint at one time and I drove my car about 20 miles to another location to hike. When I turned on my gps there was a line from my house to my new location that I had to look at all day. I hope someone can come up with a solution.


Does the straight line on the 62 series have an apparently correct speed recorded or is it thousands of whatever per hour?

#24 User is offline   coggins 

  • MAGC Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2522
  • Joined: 17-February 06

Posted 31 August 2012 - 05:25 AM

View Postpa.hunter, on 31 August 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

I find this all very interesting. I have a Gpsmap 62s and it does the very same thing. I have been trying for weeks to get rid of that @&$&@&$ straight line and I haven't found an easy solution yet. I hope someone can come up with a solution.
You have to turn off the tracking if you don't want that line.

#25 User is offline   MtnHermit 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1816
  • Joined: 17-January 07

Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:05 AM

View Postpa.hunter, on 31 August 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

I find this all very interesting. I have a Gpsmap 62s and it does the very same thing. I have been trying for weeks to get rid of that @&$&@&$ straight line and I haven't found an easy solution yet. I had my home as a waypoint at one time and I drove my car about 20 miles to another location to hike. When I turned on my gps there was a line from my house to my new location that I had to look at all day. I hope someone can come up with a solution.


It's in the base code, you'll have to downgrade. See this post.

#26 User is offline   pa.hunter 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 22-November 05

Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:17 AM

The speed is not correct, the tracking had been turned off,and my unit is running on 3.90 software. I need to try a few more things .

#27 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:44 AM

View Postpa.hunter, on 31 August 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

The speed is not correct, the tracking had been turned off,and my unit is running on 3.90 software. I need to try a few more things .


Okay, then it's clearly a bug recently introduced on the 62 series as well.

#28 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:00 AM

View Postrusselln114, on 30 August 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

View PostGrasscatcher, on 30 August 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

@russelln 114,

I STILL stand behind my last previous statement 100%.

You need to understand what it is you are seeing and learn how to operate your unit.



Pretty bold Grasscatcher. No need to get your panties in a bind.If you needed attention now your getting it. We are all on here for a reason. When people on here make things personal it gets annoying to the person who started the thread. My reply started with Sorry Grasscatcher Not I'm right and your wrong. Your post shows him how to get rid of the line using basecamp. My post shows him how to get rid of the line using his gps. The way i described to Dave was the way it was explained to me. It worked so I'm letting him know.This is not a bashing forum. It's a helpful forum. One more thing Grasscatcher. What i'm seeing and learning is that you need to calm down and relax for it's not that big a deal.


1. Not bold.
2. No panties in a bind.
3. Not taking anything personal
4. My post explained how to get rid of the straight line after downloading out of the GPS.(if you get the lines)(which are due to SETTINGS and OPERATOR procedures)
5. Your post was talking about the straight line that CAN be created ON the GPS and said that the only way to prevent it was to turn track logging OFF. That is NOT correct.I NEVER turn tracklogging OFF. Never have,never will, and don't have "the problem"
6. Did you notice that I said that I have a 78S, which uses the EXACT same update file as a 62S....one of the models that another poster (pa hunter) says has the "problem" ? I always keep the latest ver. software. I DON'T have the problem.....what does that tell you??? It should tell you that there are details that you're not understanding.
7. Your seeing and learning that I need to calm down is also incorrect because you should see that I'm not one of the ones with the "problem"or "bug". I'm as calm as a dog laying on its back with all four feet in the air soaking up the sun on its belly!
8. No bashing.....but you do have to be willing to THINK about what you are seeing.

Think about these words..... Archiving, tracklogging, clear current track. Note: Tracklogging Always ON.

When you turn your GPS on and it locks onto sats, it starts the breadcrumb trail. Now Think....how often are you archiving?? Daily,Weekly, when full???

I won't try to cover every possibility but follow this...
At home I turn the unit on to check batteries etc., turn it off, drive to trailhead 15 mile away.
Turn unit on again, it starts BC Tr again, and connects to first BC Tr at home with straight line because, you are still within the same archive period......and the speed calculated for that straight line is 15 miles / time between home and trailhead. It's doing exactly what it is supposed to do between those two adjacent trackpoints.
Now, if you don't want that line, when you get to the trailhead and turn your unit on, and it acquires a lock,go to track mgr., Current Track, Clear Current Track, Yes.....Line GONE
It clears current track back to the beginning of the present archive period.

The BC Tr now starts at the trailhead with no straight line attached.

Now, do your hike and when you get back or to your destination, you have several options.
Save and Name your track on the unit while still right there. (It has no straight line tail on it)
Turn unit off.
When you get home and turn unit on (and it locks on) ...BAM ! you've got the "Tail". Now... think about this....if you covered up the antenna with your hand to prevent it from locking on in a different location from the end of the hike, and downloaded the track, it would NOT have the tail.

Now, when it locks on, look at your unit......it's got the "tail". If it does, then that means that is the "current track" and that you're still in the same archive period. You ALSO have a copy of the same track (without any "tails")in Saved tracks, but you can't see it without the tail unless you "clear current track"....one is on top of the other.

The "tail" doesn't cross archive periods so you can minimize occurrences by shortening to "Daily".

You are correct in saying that it's no big deal. You can either prevent it from occurring on your unit by your choice of settings and operator actions or if you screw up and get the lines then you can just download the data and remove them on your computer......then upload any desired tracks without tails back to your unit.

Just wondering...
Now do you understand why I'm still correct in standing behind my statement that you don't have to turn logging off? and that the Garmin rep. was wrong?

#29 User is offline   russelln114 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 06-August 09

Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:35 PM

Your right Grasscatcher. You don't have to turn the track off however you said that you never turn yours off. I'm the opposite I never turn mine on unless i need it. I also save a waypoint at the start of each track. Not everyone wants it to run tracks all the time and thats the beauty of being able to turn it off. Some people have the line and some don't i guess. Those of you who have the line and want to keep the tracks on can correct this in basecamp Like grasscatcher said. Those of you who have the line and don't mind tracks being turned off can correct this on the unit itself buy first run your track then at the end of the track (etrex 20) save the track by going to menu/track manager/current track/save track. Once you name the track and push enter a message will come up saying the track has been saved Do you want to clear the current track? I hit no because if i hit yes the unit will still record a new track. Next go to menu/setup/tracks/track log. Then i hit do not record. I then go back to track manager and hit current track. Scroll down to clear current track and hit it. Then you will see a question do you want to clear the track log. Hit yes. If you want to start a new track just go to menu/setup/tracks/track log. Then i hit either record show on map or record do not show on map. This Has worked for me and like grasscatcher stated you can also correct this in basecamp. Hope both methods depending if you run tracks all the time or don't want to run tracks all the time works for others.Grasscatcher I was wrong for saying that you always have to turn the tracks off and I think you were wrong for saying that you never turn tracks off because some like tracks running all the time like you and some like tracks off all the time unless they need it like me. Sorry for the miss communication. Grasscatcher maybe you can help me with my post concerning geocaching logs on the etrex 20.

This post has been edited by russelln114: 31 August 2012 - 02:01 PM


#30 User is offline   fluorescentblack 

  • Tadpole
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 21-July 12

Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:51 PM

Folks, there was a recent update 3.20 and it seems this issue has not been corrected still logs the same way, with long, as the crow flies line. It now behaves like It still doesnt log like my old Legend HCX. :( Will test it more but it would be great if someone confirms what im seeing.

Edit:
3.20 and 3.30 still has the same behavior as reported by david_adam

This post has been edited by fluorescentblack: 21 October 2013 - 09:54 PM


#31 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:24 AM

View Postfluorescentblack, on 21 October 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Folks, there was a recent update 3.20 and it seems this issue has not been corrected still logs the same way, with long, as the crow flies line. It now behaves like It still doesnt log like my old Legend HCX. :( Will test it more but it would be great if someone confirms what im seeing.

Edit:
3.20 and 3.30 still has the same behavior as reported by david_adam


Just wondering - why did you stroke those out? It's still clearly a bug in the receiver softwares; not something that can even with friendly lenient reasoning be explained to be "by design". The implementation of logging is flat out wrong, and Garmin should fix it.

#32 User is offline   EScout 

  • Elevation: 75 feet
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2257
  • Joined: 18-August 02

Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:16 AM

View Postdavid_adam, on 26 August 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

When I create a track of the route I have just walked then switch GPSR off, then turn it on again e.g. at home, it adds the current location to the existing track. There is a straight line (as the crow flies) from end of track to this point. Not really desirable if I want to save the track. Any ideas on how to prevent this. Software version 2.80
thanks
David

There are several solutions to this. This tracking feature is not a bug. Each time you turn your GPSr off and on, there is a new segment created. Some of us use this feature strategically in our tracking.
So, you turned your GPSr off after a hike. You can save the track log at that time. Or,if you didn't, when you get home and turn it on again: In the Track Manager, choose Current Track, then under the Save Track choice, choose: Save Portion. It should be called "Save Segment" because it lists your segments and you just choose the first segment of your hike to save, and not the second segment straight line to your house.

On a multi-day hike, if you just turn the GPSr off at the end of the day, if will record each day as a segment. If you forget to turn it on immediately in the morning, you will have a straight line segment that can help you back track if you need to.

So, as some have mentioned, never turn off tracking, because you do not need to. Learn the settings on the frequency of track point recording.
There are also software solutions to modifying your track log file such as Basecamp or G7ToWin.

The Etrex 20 is my current choice for recording tracks because it is small, light, with powerful features and the battery life is great. I record about 300 miles a year of hiking and biking. Using V. 2.80

#33 User is offline   david_adam 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 31-December 07

Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostEScout, on 23 October 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

View Postdavid_adam, on 26 August 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

When I create a track of the route I have just walked then switch GPSR off, then turn it on again e.g. at home, it adds the current location to the existing track. There is a straight line (as the crow flies) from end of track to this point. Not really desirable if I want to save the track. Any ideas on how to prevent this. Software version 2.80
thanks
David

There are several solutions to this. This tracking feature is not a bug. Each time you turn your GPSr off and on, there is a new segment created. Some of us use this feature strategically in our tracking.
So, you turned your GPSr off after a hike. You can save the track log at that time. Or,if you didn't, when you get home and turn it on again: In the Track Manager, choose Current Track, then under the Save Track choice, choose: Save Portion. It should be called "Save Segment" because it lists your segments and you just choose the first segment of your hike to save, and not the second segment straight line to your house.

On a multi-day hike, if you just turn the GPSr off at the end of the day, if will record each day as a segment. If you forget to turn it on immediately in the morning, you will have a straight line segment that can help you back track if you need to.

So, as some have mentioned, never turn off tracking, because you do not need to. Learn the settings on the frequency of track point recording.
There are also software solutions to modifying your track log file such as Basecamp or G7ToWin.

The Etrex 20 is my current choice for recording tracks because it is small, light, with powerful features and the battery life is great. I record about 300 miles a year of hiking and biking. Using V. 2.80


It is interesting that this thread has been revived. There are obviously two schools of thought here - one that it is a "bug" and one that it is a "feature" with solutions.

Let me explain why I think it is a bug.
1. It didn't happen initially - can't remember the firmware version but I think it was about 2.40.
2. A friend with an Etrex 20 who doesn't do firmware updates still has 2.70 and it doesn't happen with that.
3. It never happened (& still doesn't) with my venerable Etrex Legend Hcx.
4. If I walk for a bit here in Adelaide, South Australia and then turn the unit off and fly to Auckland in New Zealand and turn it back on, it draws a straight line of several thousand kilometres length with a track speed of several thousand kilometres per hour. Can't really see that as much of a useful "feature"!

I would be interested to hear from people with other Garmin models as to whether they have the same bug/feature? What about old reliables like 60 or 62 and the newer Oregons or Montanas?
cheers
David

#34 User is offline   tr_s 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 20-October 00

Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:37 AM

Blatantly incorrectly recorded speed on the connecting stretches is why it is clearly a bug. If they fix that, then you can start a lengthy debate on whether it is a bug or a feature. I don't think i'll participate in it though :)

Regarding the 60/62 series, the bug has apparently been introduced in them as well in later firmwares, according to some reports here. Not very surprising, I'd guess the eTrex and 60/62 shares some procedural codebase.

#35 User is offline   Odourless 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 307
  • Joined: 06-October 13

Posted 09 November 2013 - 06:40 AM

View Posttr_s, on 30 August 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

View Postrusselln114, on 29 August 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:


Sorry Grasscatcher but i had this happen to me whenever i used my legend hcx. I called garmin and they explained to me that if I just set a track then at the end of the track just turn the gps off whenever i turn the gps on the gps will track to my current position wherever i may be at the time....



Phew! They said that? Then it's a feature change from the older series of their GPS. My eTrex, eTrex H and eTrex Legend have NEVER done this.

Now, I could buy that if it weren't for that the speed data recorded in these "straight line legs" is incorrect by a factor of about a hundred - this spoils the average speed number. There's another thread here on that.

Sorry Garmin... I don't really believe this feature change is fully intentional.



Yep, Etrex 20 v3.30 draws lines between power offs and ons positions and my Etrex H doesn't.

No matter how I try to get up with the Etrex 20 GUI, I just find it disjointed and rubbishy.

On the other hand the old Etex H is a design classic, easy to use, uncluttered and not needing updates ever again.

The 20 stays in the pack while the H is out with me on trek.

:P

#36 User is offline   Odourless 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 307
  • Joined: 06-October 13

Posted 09 November 2013 - 06:41 AM

The 20 stays in the pack while the H is out with me on trek.

:P

This post has been edited by PigSti: 09 November 2013 - 06:42 AM


#37 User is offline   EScout 

  • Elevation: 75 feet
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2257
  • Joined: 18-August 02

Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:50 PM

With your Etrex 20, after using it to record a (Hike)track, you can save it then, or turn the GPSr off. If you turn it on later at another location, you have the choice of including this straight line segment between the end of your hike and your current location, or not including it. Just Save the first Portion and you will have the first hike's track without the straight line segment.

Say at the second location you started another hike. When you are done, save just the second portion and it will save a track with only the second hike, and without the straight line segment.

Remember to use "Save Portion" not "Save Track." If you "Save Track" after the second hike, you will get a track log that includes the first hike, straight segment and the second hike.

Also, after turning on at the second location, your "dashboard" screen does not include the running time or the distance of the "straight line" segment, it only includes actually traveled track points. And in version 3.40 the straight line segment of the "Current Track" does not even show on the map screen.

So, there is no problem with track logging. The "straight line" is imaginary and you do not need to include it unless you want to.

It will be of benefit to learn how track logging works and what you want to log. I recommend saving each track portion as you finish your hike/bike/trip, and then "Archive" it.

I am familiar with track logging on 3 generations of Magellans going back 13 years, and with the Delorme's and prefer Garmin. (Some GPSrs will not show the "straight line" segment on the map screen, but will include it in a saved track.) This Etrex20 has the best track logging features of the several Garmins I have had since my first one I got in 1997.

This post has been edited by EScout: 11 November 2013 - 12:04 AM


#38 User is offline   sussamb 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 2184
  • Joined: 15-July 11

Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:57 PM

I'd agree with that. It's extremely flexible giving numerous options ... just up to you to decide how you want to use it :)

#39 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:32 AM

The correct way to operate your GPS is to "clear current track" before you start a hike and "save" that track log at the end of the hike. ....NO LINES!

Every Garmin model (since the end of the 60-76 series) that uses the new operating system and new file format and has archiving capability, forces the operator to pay more attention to correct operating procedures.

The Garmin "person" that said to turn it off at the end of one hike and then back on at the start of the next was giving you incorrect information. It was a "lazy operator" way to trick the GPS into starting a new file. Also, that was only on models "prior" to implementing "archiving". Even on those earlier models, the "clearing" before and "saving afterwards" was the correct operating procedure.

People that insist on trying to operate the new models in the same "uninformed" manner as their old units, don't like their results, and REALLY don't want to hear that it is due their own operating procedures and their own settings.

Re-read the first sentence in this post again. You don't have to understand all the "whys", but you won't get any of the dreaded "lines". If you want to understand all the "whys", I can provide a step by step process describing what's happening behind the scenes with each button press.

#40 User is offline   Red90 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 5203
  • Joined: 24-September 03

Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:04 AM

View Posttr_s, on 09 November 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

Blatantly incorrectly recorded speed on the connecting stretches is why it is clearly a bug. If they fix that, then you can start a lengthy debate on whether it is a bug or a feature. I don't think i'll participate in it though :)

Regarding the 60/62 series, the bug has apparently been introduced in them as well in later firmwares, according to some reports here. Not very surprising, I'd guess the eTrex and 60/62 shares some procedural codebase.

`
Speed has nothing to do with this problem. GPS speed is determined separately from position and time. The crazy speed numbers are from the unit storing data while it still has a poor fix. The solution here is to not record until the GPS fix is reasonable.

#41 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 11 November 2013 - 11:43 AM

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

View Posttr_s, on 09 November 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

Blatantly incorrectly recorded speed on the connecting stretches is why it is clearly a bug. If they fix that, then you can start a lengthy debate on whether it is a bug or a feature. I don't think i'll participate in it though :)

Regarding the 60/62 series, the bug has apparently been introduced in them as well in later firmwares, according to some reports here. Not very surprising, I'd guess the eTrex and 60/62 shares some procedural codebase.

`
Speed has nothing to do with this problem. GPS speed is determined separately from position and time. The crazy speed numbers are from the unit storing data while it still has a poor fix. The solution here is to not record until the GPS fix is reasonable.


@Red 90,
Look carefully at the time stamps on the track points at each end of the "straight line".
During initialization procedures, the new models intentionally go back to "last known" position, log THAT point location, and the "current" time (NOW) in order to "Tie" all the track log info together for whatever "Archive period" the user has specified. The "lines" don't cross from one archive period to another.

The goofy speeds come in when the unit calculates the speed from "last known" location (miles away) where unit was turned off( but the old loc is determined from internal memory AT THE NEW LOCATION) to current position logged a few seconds later. That data is "junk" but the unit is doing exactly what the user has told it to do with his "archive" settings choice (ie- tying all the data together within the period). Clearing the current track log and resetting the trip settings eliminate the junk data and you get no connecting lines.

#42 User is offline   Red90 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 5203
  • Joined: 24-September 03

Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:33 PM

I see, you are correct. It is not recording the GPS speed. It is calculating from time and position. They should be logging actual speed. This is really a problem of the unit recording track data before it has a position lock.

#43 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I see, you are correct. It is not recording the GPS speed. It is calculating from time and position. They should be logging actual speed. This is really a problem of the unit recording track data before it has a position lock.

No,that line is created after the unit locks on, it goes back in internal memory to retrieve "last known position" coordinates, in an attempt to tie the data from that point in time to the current position and time .........exactly as the user has told it to do by the unit settings.

It becomes a moot point when the User clears the current track log and resets trip settings because it elininates the "last known point" and the line. It's really just "clearing its brain" and starting with a clean slate at the beginning of a trip. Save at the end and you've got that specific trip's data (only) encapsulated in a file.

Some people say that it has nothing to do with archiving. They are wrong. It's ALL about tying info together within an archive period. Here's how you can prove it to yourself......

Set your unit to Auto Archive "Daily" ....Clear current track at the start ..go out and do a hike, at the end of the hike,intentionally don't "save" the track, just turn the unit OFF. Don't turn it back on until the next day. Next day, when turned back on....NO LINE.

Now, set your unit to Auto Archive Weekly (or When Full). Do EXACTLY the same thing , clear before,hike,turnoff for the day. Next day when you turn it on...Ta Da ! you've got the Dreaded connecting line.

Does that help explain?

Auto archive "Daily" minimizes / reduces "the problem"...Clearing track log before and saving afterwards, totally eliminates "the problem"....PERIOD.

This post has been edited by Grasscatcher: 11 November 2013 - 01:22 PM


#44 User is offline   Team CowboyPapa 

  • I'm just here to help.
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 1866
  • Joined: 26-February 07

Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

.... It is not recording the GPS speed. It is calculating from time and position. They should be logging actual speed....

Hmmm...... How can it record the GPS speed (other than by subtracting two positions and then dividing by elapsed time) if it doesn't have a rubber wheel on the ground feeding back the RPMs?

#45 User is offline   Red90 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 5203
  • Joined: 24-September 03

Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostTeam CowboyPapa, on 11 November 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

.... It is not recording the GPS speed. It is calculating from time and position. They should be logging actual speed....

Hmmm...... How can it record the GPS speed (other than by subtracting two positions and then dividing by elapsed time) if it doesn't have a rubber wheel on the ground feeding back the RPMs?

A GPS calculates speed using the doppler effect, not through change in position. Position and speed calculations are separate within the GPS.

#46 User is offline   Red90 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 5203
  • Joined: 24-September 03

Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:34 PM

View PostGrasscatcher, on 11 November 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

No,that line is created after the unit locks on, it goes back in internal memory to retrieve "last known position" coordinates, in an attempt to tie the data from that point in time to the current position and time .........exactly as the user has told it to do by the unit settings.

Sorry, but what it is doing is not correct. It is recording a track point at the old location and the current time. That never happened. It starts a new track with the power cycle. It is not continuing the old track/ There is no reason to have it start at the old location.

#47 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:54 PM

We are saying the exact same thing.
Old location with the new "turn on" time.
I'm saying the reason is to physically "Tie" the data together for the archive period, or in other words,within the archive period. If you left the unit on, it would continue to log the path traveled between the two points. If you turn it off, it does the same thing by going back in it's memory and getting the last known location to start from and then continuing. Of course it has to start with new track because it can't log points while it's off. That's why the line is "attached" at the "start" of the second track instead of at the tail end of the first.

Easy way to solve "the problem" on the Montana is to make a shortcut to "clear current track log" and "reset trip odometer" . Does both with the press of one button. On other models you have to do each separately.

#48 User is offline   Red90 

  • Premium Member
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 5203
  • Joined: 24-September 03

Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:26 PM

If the goal was to continue the track, the first point would be at the old coordinates and the old time. The second point would be at the new coordinates and current time. A simple thing to do. Using the new time and the old coordinates is crazy at that never happened and the data is thus messed up.

#49 User is offline   Team CowboyPapa 

  • I'm just here to help.
  • Group: +Premium Members
  • Posts: 1866
  • Joined: 26-February 07

Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:44 PM

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

View PostTeam CowboyPapa, on 11 November 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

.... It is not recording the GPS speed. It is calculating from time and position. They should be logging actual speed....

Hmmm...... How can it record the GPS speed (other than by subtracting two positions and then dividing by elapsed time) if it doesn't have a rubber wheel on the ground feeding back the RPMs?

A GPS calculates speed using the doppler effect, not through change in position. Position and speed calculations are separate within the GPS.

I'll accept that answer.

Thanks!

#50 User is offline   Grasscatcher 

  • Geocacher
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1043
  • Joined: 25-August 01

Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostRed90, on 11 November 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

If the goal was to continue the track, the first point would be at the old coordinates and the old time. The second point would be at the new coordinates and current time. A simple thing to do. Using the new time and the old coordinates is crazy at that never happened and the data is thus messed up.


I guess that we'll just have to agree to disagree about the data being messed up.....
It's data that would be automatically deleted / eliminated by correct operating procedures, but if the user wants to operate his unit in a way that causes, or retains bogus data then so be it.
If he wants them, then he can have them (the lines), if not, then learn how to operate the unit the way it was intended.

We definitely do not want to go back to the limited functionality of previous units like 60/76 etc.

If you operate your GPS correctly then you don't get the points or the lines anyway,so....

Share this topic:


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic