Basic members logging Premium Caches

[+Tempo 0]

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

[+Cardinal Red]

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

 

This is not a bug. It is a fairly well known site feature. And there is certainly more than one way to accomplish it. It's not necessary to log from both accounts back to back, or even be on the same computer. But your way works.

[+Bing-GTX]

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

I have to agree that this is not a bug. I (a basic member) have gone caching with my son (a premium member) on several occasions when we have found premium member caches (several of which I found before he did, but that is beside the point). If the site did not allow me to log the cache I would be extremely disappointed and would consider that to be a serious flaw. There is no reason, because the terms and conditions do not prevent it, that I should not be able to log a Premium cache that I found while caching with a premium member.

When you log out of your premium account and log into his basic account regardless of whether you are on the same computer or not, the web site cannot tell that it is you who logged in using his credentials (a poor security practice in my opinion, I might add). The fact that you were recently logged in using your own credentials has no bearing on your ability to log the cache using his account. As far as it is concerned he is the one typing on the keyboard. Since he was there he should do his own logging, there is no need for you to do it for him. The only advantage in your doing this in this manner is that he does not need to look up the cache himself in order to log it. Since premium caches show up in cache lists it is not difficult to find the names and GC codes for them, there is even a "log it" link for them in the list and on the cache page that is displayed if a basic member clicks on the cache name. At one time, although that is apparently broken now, basic members could even see them on the map at certain zoom levels.

[ClanCobbler]

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

I have to agree that this is not a bug. I (a basic member) have gone caching with my son (a premium member) on several occasions when we have found premium member caches (several of which I found before he did, but that is beside the point). If the site did not allow me to log the cache I would be extremely disappointed and would consider that to be a serious flaw. There is no reason, because the terms and conditions do not prevent it, that I should not be able to log a Premium cache that I found while caching with a premium member.

When you log out of your premium account and log into his basic account regardless of whether you are on the same computer or not, the web site cannot tell that it is you who logged in using his credentials (a poor security practice in my opinion, I might add). The fact that you were recently logged in using your own credentials has no bearing on your ability to log the cache using his account. As far as it is concerned he is the one typing on the keyboard. Since he was there he should do his own logging, there is no need for you to do it for him. The only advantage in your doing this in this manner is that he does not need to look up the cache himself in order to log it. Since premium caches show up in cache lists it is not difficult to find the names and GC codes for them, there is even a "log it" link for them in the list and on the cache page that is displayed if a basic member clicks on the cache name. At one time, although that is apparently broken now, basic members could even see them on the map at certain zoom levels.

 

We are also Basic Members but have been known to join up with Premium Member cachers and our experience of being able to log caches has been very patchy. At the moment the Premium caches don't appear on any map with any browser at any resolution, so the option of right clicking on the icon to log the cache has gone. I was not aware of the "log it" link and cannot see one either on the list or cache page, so yes it does seem to be broken. Currently we have two Premium caches to log and a TB from a Premium cache that we cannot fully log because of lack of access, so will appear as "grabbed" when we place it in another cache.

 

When creating caches it is useful to have an idea of the density of other caches in the intended location (we also check Opencaching and Terracaching for this) and also to avoid the irritation of setting it all up to then have it rejected because it is too close to another cache.

 

One final issue is that three times in our caching life we have come across a Premium cache by accident, most recently earlier this year when we were out for a walk with friends and not even caching. At that time we could make an good guess at the cache name from the zoomed-out map and then contact the owner by clicking on the link instead of having to guess the cache name from a list of nearby caches (there was no ID in or on the cache) and then search the names. Next time it would be easier just to leave the Premium cache sitting out in the open to be muggled.

[jholly]

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

I have to agree that this is not a bug. I (a basic member) have gone caching with my son (a premium member) on several occasions when we have found premium member caches (several of which I found before he did, but that is beside the point). If the site did not allow me to log the cache I would be extremely disappointed and would consider that to be a serious flaw. There is no reason, because the terms and conditions do not prevent it, that I should not be able to log a Premium cache that I found while caching with a premium member.

When you log out of your premium account and log into his basic account regardless of whether you are on the same computer or not, the web site cannot tell that it is you who logged in using his credentials (a poor security practice in my opinion, I might add). The fact that you were recently logged in using your own credentials has no bearing on your ability to log the cache using his account. As far as it is concerned he is the one typing on the keyboard. Since he was there he should do his own logging, there is no need for you to do it for him. The only advantage in your doing this in this manner is that he does not need to look up the cache himself in order to log it. Since premium caches show up in cache lists it is not difficult to find the names and GC codes for them, there is even a "log it" link for them in the list and on the cache page that is displayed if a basic member clicks on the cache name. At one time, although that is apparently broken now, basic members could even see them on the map at certain zoom levels.

 

We are also Basic Members but have been known to join up with Premium Member cachers and our experience of being able to log caches has been very patchy. At the moment the Premium caches don't appear on any map with any browser at any resolution, so the option of right clicking on the icon to log the cache has gone. I was not aware of the "log it" link and cannot see one either on the list or cache page, so yes it does seem to be broken. Currently we have two Premium caches to log and a TB from a Premium cache that we cannot fully log because of lack of access, so will appear as "grabbed" when we place it in another cache.

 

When creating caches it is useful to have an idea of the density of other caches in the intended location (we also check Opencaching and Terracaching for this) and also to avoid the irritation of setting it all up to then have it rejected because it is too close to another cache.

 

One final issue is that three times in our caching life we have come across a Premium cache by accident, most recently earlier this year when we were out for a walk with friends and not even caching. At that time we could make an good guess at the cache name from the zoomed-out map and then contact the owner by clicking on the link instead of having to guess the cache name from a list of nearby caches (there was no ID in or on the cache) and then search the names. Next time it would be easier just to leave the Premium cache sitting out in the open to be muggled.

There a number of ways for a basic member to log a premium member cache. The easiest probably is geocachingadmin.com. As for the one you found accidentally, if you made note of the coordinates of where you found it, or at least made a good guess with google earth, then on the seek a cache page search by coordinates using those coordinates. The PMO cache will be on that list and likely the first one on the list.

Edited September 6, 2013 by jholly

[+Bear and Ragged]

It's not a bug, it's designed in.

 

It disappeared in an update once, and was soon added back. (At Jeremy's say so!)

 

It's there so families - dad, mum, and the kids - can cache and log their finds, as individual cachers, without all of the family having to be Premium Members.

 

Now, IF Groundspeak ever get 'Family Membership' off the ground, the 'Backdoor' may well be closed. (Or certainly 'harder to find')

Edited September 6, 2013 by Bear and Ragged

[+Harry Dolphin]

The method listed by jholly works well. (Or so I am told. I've never tried it.)

What I do (as a premium member) is to open my account in MSIE, and open my caching partner's account in Google Chrome. I log the find, and copy the 'log url' into Google Chrome, to let my caching partner log his find. Works well for us.

If my caching partner were unable to log his finds on premium caches, we would not search for them. I would eliminated them from my GPX files.

[ClanCobbler]

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

I have to agree that this is not a bug. I (a basic member) have gone caching with my son (a premium member) on several occasions when we have found premium member caches (several of which I found before he did, but that is beside the point). If the site did not allow me to log the cache I would be extremely disappointed and would consider that to be a serious flaw. There is no reason, because the terms and conditions do not prevent it, that I should not be able to log a Premium cache that I found while caching with a premium member.

When you log out of your premium account and log into his basic account regardless of whether you are on the same computer or not, the web site cannot tell that it is you who logged in using his credentials (a poor security practice in my opinion, I might add). The fact that you were recently logged in using your own credentials has no bearing on your ability to log the cache using his account. As far as it is concerned he is the one typing on the keyboard. Since he was there he should do his own logging, there is no need for you to do it for him. The only advantage in your doing this in this manner is that he does not need to look up the cache himself in order to log it. Since premium caches show up in cache lists it is not difficult to find the names and GC codes for them, there is even a "log it" link for them in the list and on the cache page that is displayed if a basic member clicks on the cache name. At one time, although that is apparently broken now, basic members could even see them on the map at certain zoom levels.

 

We are also Basic Members but have been known to join up with Premium Member cachers and our experience of being able to log caches has been very patchy. At the moment the Premium caches don't appear on any map with any browser at any resolution, so the option of right clicking on the icon to log the cache has gone. I was not aware of the "log it" link and cannot see one either on the list or cache page, so yes it does seem to be broken. Currently we have two Premium caches to log and a TB from a Premium cache that we cannot fully log because of lack of access, so will appear as "grabbed" when we place it in another cache.

 

When creating caches it is useful to have an idea of the density of other caches in the intended location (we also check Opencaching and Terracaching for this) and also to avoid the irritation of setting it all up to then have it rejected because it is too close to another cache.

 

One final issue is that three times in our caching life we have come across a Premium cache by accident, most recently earlier this year when we were out for a walk with friends and not even caching. At that time we could make an good guess at the cache name from the zoomed-out map and then contact the owner by clicking on the link instead of having to guess the cache name from a list of nearby caches (there was no ID in or on the cache) and then search the names. Next time it would be easier just to leave the Premium cache sitting out in the open to be muggled.

There a number of ways for a basic member to log a premium member cache. The easiest probably is geocachingadmin.com. As for the one you found accidentally, if you made note of the coordinates of where you found it, or at least made a good guess with google earth, then on the seek a cache page search by coordinates using those coordinates. The PMO cache will be on that list and likely the first one on the list.

Thank you JHolly, I didn't know that site existed and it has now solved the basic problem. It would obviously be much more helpful if the zoomed-out map feature was enabled again, but at least your suggestion is a workable solution. Cheers

[+JMoney04]

It's not a bug, it's designed in.

 

It disappeared in an update once, and was soon added back. (At Jeremy's say so!)

 

It's there so families - dad, mum, and the kids - can cache and log their finds, as individual cachers, without all of the family having to be Premium Members.

 

Now, IF Groundspeak ever get 'Family Membership' off the ground, the 'Backdoor' may well be closed. (Or certainly 'harder to find')

 

What would happen if the CO complained about a basic member logging a premium only cache?

[jholly]

It's not a bug, it's designed in.

 

It disappeared in an update once, and was soon added back. (At Jeremy's say so!)

 

It's there so families - dad, mum, and the kids - can cache and log their finds, as individual cachers, without all of the family having to be Premium Members.

 

Now, IF Groundspeak ever get 'Family Membership' off the ground, the 'Backdoor' may well be closed. (Or certainly 'harder to find')

 

What would happen if the CO complained about a basic member logging a premium only cache?

The CO would get a black star next to his name.

[+tozainamboku]

What would happen if the CO complained about a basic member logging a premium only cache?

The CO would get a black star next to his name.

About six months ago, the owner of PMO cache deleted the found log of a non-premium member.Initially, A Groundspeak lackey restored the log, but about a month later they reversed the decision and allowed the CO to delete the log again. It seems the issue was the following description of the PMO cache feature (emphasis added)

VIP access to Premium Member Only caches.

 

Premium Member Only caches are placed and found exclusively by Geocaching Premium Members. This makes you a VIP in the caching world. Geocaching Premium Members experience geocaching at its fullest and finest, with access to thousands of additional caches on Geocaching.com. Welcome to a whole new world of exclusive caches.

TPTB said that description was unclear and they were working out a new description of what a PMO cache is and who can log a find.

 

Well, it's now six months later and they still haven't changed a thing.

 

As it stands today, the owner of a PMO can delete the found log of a basic member

[7rxc]

That is in an advertising page, promoting PMs to basic members.

 

Got anything in the guidelines (as in general rules)?

 

I don't think they enforce advertising blurbs as rules.

 

If they did, would it encourage new PM sales or annoy people royally?

 

Doug 7rxc

[+tozainamboku]

That is in an advertising page, promoting PMs to basic members.

 

Got anything in the guidelines (as in general rules)?

 

I don't think they enforce advertising blurbs as rules.

 

If they did, would it encourage new PM sales or annoy people royally?

 

Doug 7rxc

It's in the Help Center as well.

[7rxc]

That is in an advertising page, promoting PMs to basic members.

 

Got anything in the guidelines (as in general rules)?

 

I don't think they enforce advertising blurbs as rules.

 

If they did, would it encourage new PM sales or annoy people royally?

 

Doug 7rxc

It's in the Help Center as well.

Thanks! I guess that raises finding PMOCs to a D2.5 or a bit more. Now the mystery is how long if ever the promised return to the map will be... Thankfully we have very few around here, but I've got all but 1 now.

Maybe it's like the unimportant basic signature that Jeremy said was reactitvated but never seen.

 

That one was hard to bypass... NOT! At least if one wanted a sig line that bad.

 

All in one's perspective I guess... me I like puzzles and PM's fill the bill in the absence of real puzzles.

 

Doug 7rxc

Edited September 18, 2013 by 7rxc

[+Traditional Bill]

The whole point of premium member only caches is that they're only able to be found by premium members. I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game enough to give back a bit. I mean, it's relatively cheap to get a premium membership. I understand the "family" aspect (who wants to drop $ on a premium account for a kid?), but if you're a grown adult and you're into geocaching....just get a premium account. It's worth it in the long run. I will say I've had some basic members log my premium caches and it does irk me a little bit, but I'd never delete their logs. Those caches were meant exclusively for premium members, though...not basic members. So how is it fair that a basic member gets to utilize a service that others have to pay for?

[jholly]

The whole point of premium member only caches is that they're only able to be found by premium members. I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game enough to give back a bit. I mean, it's relatively cheap to get a premium membership. I understand the "family" aspect (who wants to drop $ on a premium account for a kid?), but if you're a grown adult and you're into geocaching....just get a premium account. It's worth it in the long run. I will say I've had some basic members log my premium caches and it does irk me a little bit, but I'd never delete their logs. Those caches were meant exclusively for premium members, though...not basic members. So how is it fair that a basic member gets to utilize a service that others have to pay for?

Because Jeremy said they could.

[+Panther&Pine]

The whole point of premium member only caches is that they're only able to be found by premium members. I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game enough to give back a bit. I mean, it's relatively cheap to get a premium membership. I understand the "family" aspect (who wants to drop $ on a premium account for a kid?), but if you're a grown adult and you're into geocaching....just get a premium account. It's worth it in the long run. I will say I've had some basic members log my premium caches and it does irk me a little bit, but I'd never delete their logs. Those caches were meant exclusively for premium members, though...not basic members. So how is it fair that a basic member gets to utilize a service that others have to pay for?

I don't pay for the PM caches, I pay for the PQs.

[+JMoney04]

The whole point of premium member only caches is that they're only able to be found by premium members. I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game enough to give back a bit. I mean, it's relatively cheap to get a premium membership. I understand the "family" aspect (who wants to drop $ on a premium account for a kid?), but if you're a grown adult and you're into geocaching....just get a premium account. It's worth it in the long run. I will say I've had some basic members log my premium caches and it does irk me a little bit, but I'd never delete their logs. Those caches were meant exclusively for premium members, though...not basic members. So how is it fair that a basic member gets to utilize a service that others have to pay for?

 

I agree kind of.. I cache with my 9 year old son. He has his own account. Should we both pay for premium membership or should only of us be able to log a premium cache? Maybe some sort of family membership should be created, thoughts?

[+cerberus1]

I don't pay for the PM caches, I pay for the PQs.

Agreed.

We became premium members weeks after starting for benefits other than the ability to do pmo hides.

So far, we haven't really seen any difference in hide quality...

[7rxc]

The whole point of premium member only caches is that they're only able to be found by premium members. I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game enough to give back a bit. I mean, it's relatively cheap to get a premium membership. I understand the "family" aspect (who wants to drop $ on a premium account for a kid?), but if you're a grown adult and you're into geocaching....just get a premium account. It's worth it in the long run. I will say I've had some basic members log my premium caches and it does irk me a little bit, but I'd never delete their logs. Those caches were meant exclusively for premium members, though...not basic members. So how is it fair that a basic member gets to utilize a service that others have to pay for?

 

Actually, as far as I've ever seen, they have always been fair game for anyone who could find and sign.

Only the cache page is restricted in that it can only been seen by PM's. Up to a year or so back, even the final coordinates could be downloaded directly to the GPS. (That was changed, perhaps as a result of my revealing that to someone in authority) Perhaps the fact that the logging stayed active was indicative of the state of being. They also provide all the information required to hunt PMOC's on the site. Only puzzles and some multis are mostly impossible since you can't see the problem description.

 

As for why not join? That is valid, just say that in my case, there aren't enough caches here to worry about bulk downloading of hundreds at a time, and PMOC's are extremely rare, I think there are maybe 5 or 6 locally within 100 km. Most of them I have logged 2 or 3 were FTFs. But then I don't worry about that side game either. Money is tight, and if I chose to join, I will. Meanwhile I simply put back in in other ways.

Given that caches are not in great supply I hunt what we've got. And I generally have to wait for weather, transportation and life in general, it isn't as easy as you might have it. Often it means a 12 hour day on a bus, a long hike up a mountainside and little protection from weather/wildlife. But I admit to being a bit wimpy about it and wait for things to be 'right'. Once in a while I get some company. Heck sometimes I even get to go look for someone who didn't/wouldn't/couldn't wait for that themselves.

 

The powers that be allow people to play their own way, and I'm in agreement with that. Have fun your own way!

 

Doug

[+Traditional Bill]

I don't pay for the PM caches, I pay for the PQs.

Agreed.

We became premium members weeks after starting for benefits other than the ability to do pmo hides.

So far, we haven't really seen any difference in hide quality...

 

Something that I have noticed about my own caches is that I have to do A LOT more maintenance on my non pmo caches than I do on my pmo caches. They go missing more often, and are not always put back properly. I think one of the benefits of listing a cache as premium is that inexperienced cachers won't be hunting them. With what I've learned, that generally means less maintenance and prolongs the life of a good hide. Not to say there shouldn't be anything out there for inexperienced cachers, but there are some hides that I put a ton of effort and money into to make them unique and quality hides. Those are the caches I feel should be reserved for premium members.

[+TriciaG]

I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game and experienced enough to treat caches with respect (putting them back properly, etc.). Therefore, I have no problem with non-PM's finding PMO caches.

 

*returning to the Peanut Gallery*

Edited September 23, 2013 by TriciaG

[+Traditional Bill]

The whole point of premium member only caches is that they're only able to be found by premium members. I feel that if you're into the game enough to put the effort into "backdoor logging", then you're into the game enough to give back a bit. I mean, it's relatively cheap to get a premium membership. I understand the "family" aspect (who wants to drop $ on a premium account for a kid?), but if you're a grown adult and you're into geocaching....just get a premium account. It's worth it in the long run. I will say I've had some basic members log my premium caches and it does irk me a little bit, but I'd never delete their logs. Those caches were meant exclusively for premium members, though...not basic members. So how is it fair that a basic member gets to utilize a service that others have to pay for?

 

I agree kind of.. I cache with my 9 year old son. He has his own account. Should we both pay for premium membership or should only of us be able to log a premium cache? Maybe some sort of family membership should be created, thoughts?

 

I feel like some sort of family membership should be created for that situation. I don't disagree with you on that front. I do however know a cacher that logs both of his kid's finds for them. I don't particularly understand why anyone would want to write 2-3 logs for the same cache. Then again, I don't have any children of my own so maybe it's a parent thing.

[+niraD]

I feel like some sort of family membership should be created for that situation.

That doesn't help situations where the basic members with me are not family members.

[7rxc]

I don't pay for the PM caches, I pay for the PQs.

Agreed.

We became premium members weeks after starting for benefits other than the ability to do pmo hides.

So far, we haven't really seen any difference in hide quality...

 

Something that I have noticed about my own caches is that I have to do A LOT more maintenance on my non pmo caches than I do on my pmo caches. They go missing more often, and are not always put back properly. I think one of the benefits of listing a cache as premium is that inexperienced cachers won't be hunting them. With what I've learned, that generally means less maintenance and prolongs the life of a good hide. Not to say there shouldn't be anything out there for inexperienced cachers, but there are some hides that I put a ton of effort and money into to make them unique and quality hides. Those are the caches I feel should be reserved for premium members.

 

Another thing to consider is the number of brand new cachers with PM status... will they have the experience etc. to handle your caches like long term PMs? Or about the same as new basic members. How about the many high number cachers who are way to busy logging high numbers to have time to replace, reseal or take care with 'nice' caches. I followed (that means found on same log date only) two high count Premiums one day. Not one cache box was placed back hidden (out in open) and not one lid was on properly. It was raining and all the caches were open and wet inside until my visit. All I could do was empty them out and place under the obvious cover spot as dry and maintained as possible. That happens with all levels of membership I fear. PM is only a paid status level, not a quality one. Thankfully they are few and far between here. I agree that someone who cares to work them out (as a type of puzzle) probably cares more for them than a lazy, careless PM. But each to his own view.

Blocking logging is of small concern as long as most of the traditional PMOC's can be located by someone who figures it out. I don't share the method, nor do the others apparently, but it isn't that hard or time consuming. Let the interested do so.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+cerberus1]

I don't pay for the PM caches, I pay for the PQs.

Agreed.

We became premium members weeks after starting for benefits other than the ability to do pmo hides.

So far, we haven't really seen any difference in hide quality...

 

Something that I have noticed about my own caches is that I have to do A LOT more maintenance on my non pmo caches than I do on my pmo caches. They go missing more often, and are not always put back properly. I think one of the benefits of listing a cache as premium is that inexperienced cachers won't be hunting them. With what I've learned, that generally means less maintenance and prolongs the life of a good hide. Not to say there shouldn't be anything out there for inexperienced cachers, but there are some hides that I put a ton of effort and money into to make them unique and quality hides. Those are the caches I feel should be reserved for premium members.

 

Another thing to consider is the number of brand new cachers with PM status... will they have the experience etc. to handle your caches like long term PMs? Or about the same as new basic members. How about the many high number cachers who are way to busy logging high numbers to have time to replace, reseal or take care with 'nice' caches. I followed (that means found on same log date only) two high count Premiums one day. Not one cache box was placed back hidden (out in open) and not one lid was on properly. It was raining and all the caches were open and wet inside until my visit. All I could do was empty them out and place under the obvious cover spot as dry and maintained as possible. That happens with all levels of membership I fear. PM is only a paid status level, not a quality one. Thankfully they are few and far between here. I agree that someone who cares to work them out (as a type of puzzle) probably cares more for them than a lazy, careless PM. But each to his own view.

Blocking logging is of small concern as long as most of the traditional PMOC's can be located by someone who figures it out. I don't share the method, nor do the others apparently, but it isn't that hard or time consuming. Let the interested do so.

 

Doug 7rxc

I agree.

We often see this reasoning from relatively new PMs where for some reason, they think a premium member is more knowledeable or concerned with quality.

Just look at power trails with the fake creative logs and find the majority are all long-time premium members.

We have premium members in my area who've cached longer than me and still trade trackables for swag.

You can be a premium member the first day you join.

Many don't realize all pm means is you coughed up the bucks.

[+Traditional Bill]

I don't pay for the PM caches, I pay for the PQs.

Agreed.

We became premium members weeks after starting for benefits other than the ability to do pmo hides.

So far, we haven't really seen any difference in hide quality...

 

Something that I have noticed about my own caches is that I have to do A LOT more maintenance on my non pmo caches than I do on my pmo caches. They go missing more often, and are not always put back properly. I think one of the benefits of listing a cache as premium is that inexperienced cachers won't be hunting them. With what I've learned, that generally means less maintenance and prolongs the life of a good hide. Not to say there shouldn't be anything out there for inexperienced cachers, but there are some hides that I put a ton of effort and money into to make them unique and quality hides. Those are the caches I feel should be reserved for premium members.

 

Another thing to consider is the number of brand new cachers with PM status... will they have the experience etc. to handle your caches like long term PMs? Or about the same as new basic members. How about the many high number cachers who are way to busy logging high numbers to have time to replace, reseal or take care with 'nice' caches. I followed (that means found on same log date only) two high count Premiums one day. Not one cache box was placed back hidden (out in open) and not one lid was on properly. It was raining and all the caches were open and wet inside until my visit. All I could do was empty them out and place under the obvious cover spot as dry and maintained as possible. That happens with all levels of membership I fear. PM is only a paid status level, not a quality one. Thankfully they are few and far between here. I agree that someone who cares to work them out (as a type of puzzle) probably cares more for them than a lazy, careless PM. But each to his own view.

Blocking logging is of small concern as long as most of the traditional PMOC's can be located by someone who figures it out. I don't share the method, nor do the others apparently, but it isn't that hard or time consuming. Let the interested do so.

 

Doug 7rxc

I agree.

We often see this reasoning from relatively new PMs where for some reason, they think a premium member is more knowledeable or concerned with quality.

Just look at power trails with the fake creative logs and find the majority are all long-time premium members.

We have premium members in my area who've cached longer than me and still trade trackables for swag.

You can be a premium member the first day you join.

Many don't realize all pm means is you coughed up the bucks.

 

Okay, so maybe I'm wrong. I'm just going off of the things I've noticed in the year and a half that I've been a premium member. Over that year and a half, I've done much much much less maintenance on my pmo caches. Most of the pmo caches I've found as well also seem to be in better shape. It could possibly just be my particular area, I don't know. I'm not as experienced as everybody else here, so sorry if I made an invalid point.

[7rxc]

 

Okay, so maybe I'm wrong. I'm just going off of the things I've noticed in the year and a half that I've been a premium member. Over that year and a half, I've done much much much less maintenance on my pmo caches. Most of the pmo caches I've found as well also seem to be in better shape. It could possibly just be my particular area, I don't know. I'm not as experienced as everybody else here, so sorry if I made an invalid point.

 

Not entirely, you observed your situation and experience and no one says in your case it wasn't a valid observation. We just said that nothing about PM will protect you from poor or inconsiderate PM members, or that basics are in any way worse just because they are basics only. I'm a basic who works hard to improve caching in my area of operation. I only recently placed a cache for the first time, hopefully there will be more, but time is limited, both free time and the fact that snow is getting closer at hand up here. I know my cache is slightly out of most people's travel limits... It is a serious walk to get up there... but not anywhere as tough as the caches it marks a trail divide point for. Those have only been found by me so far, and their owner has found mine. I'm trying to make it a bit safer for visitors to the area to help them avoid truly hazardous spots... nothing more. The location of that one will be far more protective than PMOC status. We had one PMOC multi that was higher quality, and wanted to be a bit more restrictive to access. First it was a multi which puts off many people, then it was a PMOC as well as being a fair walk away from parking lot. I bet the first an last were bigger constraints than the PMOC status though... I got FTF on that one as well as others... and did it as a basic. Logged it the same way. Nothing slowed me at all, but... a puzzle would have since I couldn't see the puzzle on the page. That feature is the strongest for a PMOC protection wise, but people share puzzles to... I simply treat PMOCs as puzzles with certain limits. So I'd say that location, distance and type are the bigger security aspects. A little more planning on the creation and placing end is also required. There are ways to do that in order to have better cache life and at the same time be more interesting to the finder.

 

Hope you keep being creative. I should also say that there are many good reasons for PM membership, but most will find security is not the biggest one in many cases.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+CEH2000]

Maybe there could be a feature where if you were a premium member, you could make the regular member your friend on gc.com and they could log the caches too, as long as the Premium member did?

 

That's getting a but complex there, though....

[+Walts Hunting]

Maybe there could be a feature where if you were a premium member, you could make the regular member your friend on gc.com and they could log the caches too, as long as the Premium member did?

 

That's getting a but complex there, though....

There is already a fairly well known procedure for basics to log premiums so why would this be necessary?

[+Traditional Bill]

 

Okay, so maybe I'm wrong. I'm just going off of the things I've noticed in the year and a half that I've been a premium member. Over that year and a half, I've done much much much less maintenance on my pmo caches. Most of the pmo caches I've found as well also seem to be in better shape. It could possibly just be my particular area, I don't know. I'm not as experienced as everybody else here, so sorry if I made an invalid point.

 

Not entirely, you observed your situation and experience and no one says in your case it wasn't a valid observation. We just said that nothing about PM will protect you from poor or inconsiderate PM members, or that basics are in any way worse just because they are basics only. I'm a basic who works hard to improve caching in my area of operation. I only recently placed a cache for the first time, hopefully there will be more, but time is limited, both free time and the fact that snow is getting closer at hand up here. I know my cache is slightly out of most people's travel limits... It is a serious walk to get up there... but not anywhere as tough as the caches it marks a trail divide point for. Those have only been found by me so far, and their owner has found mine. I'm trying to make it a bit safer for visitors to the area to help them avoid truly hazardous spots... nothing more. The location of that one will be far more protective than PMOC status. We had one PMOC multi that was higher quality, and wanted to be a bit more restrictive to access. First it was a multi which puts off many people, then it was a PMOC as well as being a fair walk away from parking lot. I bet the first an last were bigger constraints than the PMOC status though... I got FTF on that one as well as others... and did it as a basic. Logged it the same way. Nothing slowed me at all, but... a puzzle would have since I couldn't see the puzzle on the page. That feature is the strongest for a PMOC protection wise, but people share puzzles to... I simply treat PMOCs as puzzles with certain limits. So I'd say that location, distance and type are the bigger security aspects. A little more planning on the creation and placing end is also required. There are ways to do that in order to have better cache life and at the same time be more interesting to the finder.

 

Hope you keep being creative. I should also say that there are many good reasons for PM membership, but most will find security is not the biggest one in many cases.

 

Doug 7rxc

 

Thanks for the reassurance. Must of the cachers in my area who cache regularly are premium and responsible cachers. I haven't really cached too far outside of the mid-atlantic region, and I didn't know there were so many veteran cachers that are basic members. I just figured becoming premium was an eventual thing as you get further into the game.

 

I suppose this is one of the main reasons I started getting into the discussion forums. There's always more to learn and this thread has certainly cleared up why I've seen basic members log my pmocs. I won't be so worried about it now :-D

 

As far as being a premium member goes though, for me at least, there are far more benefits of being a pm for me than pmocs. I've adapted to having statistics, pocket queries and other benefits of being a pm.

 

Thanks for the useful information!

[7rxc]

I'll add that I intend to become PM some day, but right now it is a low priority based on numbers of local caches, lack of travel opportunities and often cash on hand... I can manage by hand. I contribute in other ways when I can.

 

And don't lump me in with 'veterans', I'm still learning the hard way.

 

Nice to chat.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+HunterandSamuel]

On 8/17/2013 at 4:55 AM, Tempo 0 said:

Im a premium member but also log for my Basic member friend. After logging a Premium cache the service goes to the 'View Geocache Log' page. If I then log out and back in as my Basic Member friend the page loads to post a log in his name. I tried it to see if it would and it posted the log and credited him the point for finding it.

Thoughts?

I was searching for a topic similar to this (a non-member geocaching with a member, found some caches,  then become a member and logging the caches as found) but this is very interesting! I became a premium member (a gift from our son) because of the cool features. I found that premium caches on the map wouldn't let me open them to get the coords.