Earth Caches vs. Virtuals

[+Popcorn313]

I'm not sure exactly where this post should go, so I stuck it in this forum. Basically, my question is: why are Virtual Caches eliminated (yes, I know that the oldies were grandfathered in), but Earth Caches are still a going concern? Don't get me wrong, I think Earth Caches are a lot of fun, but not everyone cares all that much for geology; and may prefer something regarding history, for example. This sounds like a perfect fit for more Virtuals.

[+ADKer]

I'm not sure exactly where this post should go, so I stuck it in this forum. Basically, my question is: why are Virtual Caches eliminated (yes, I know that the oldies were grandfathered in), but Earth Caches are still a going concern? Don't get me wrong, I think Earth Caches are a lot of fun, but not everyone cares all that much for geology; and may prefer something regarding history, for example. This sounds like a perfect fit for more Virtuals.

 

I agree 110%. I think virtuals would be really nice to have back (moderately, of course), the only problem was that they were getting so common, because they required so little effort (sometimes), and lead to armchair finds. It would be nice to see virtuals allowed at monuments with historical significance somehow, similar to earthcaches, but I doubt that would happen.

 

My $0.02

Edited August 26, 2013 by Rinerts

[+BlueDeuce]

I'm not sure exactly where this post should go, so I stuck it in this forum. Basically, my question is: why are Virtual Caches eliminated (yes, I know that the oldies were grandfathered in), but Earth Caches are still a going concern? Don't get me wrong, I think Earth Caches are a lot of fun, but not everyone cares all that much for geology; and may prefer something regarding history, for example. This sounds like a perfect fit for more Virtuals.

 

The history of Virtuals is most likely the problem. Give your idea a new name and it might fly.

[+dprovan]

This was all before my time, but as I understand it, Virtuals had no standards, many bad ones were being planted, and they were eliminated. (There was an attempt to add standards, but it didn't work.) EarthCaches were later (?) invented as a modern Virtual but with strict standards, and one of the standards was that the subject should be geology. Limiting the subject matter allows for actual experts in the field to rule on whether the EarthCache is good enough.

 

Conceptually one could imagine HistoryCaches if the same caliber of reviewing could be put in place, although in practice making the subject history probably would offer too much leeway for abuse since one could argue that just about anything should be considered "History".

[+DonB]

This was all before my time, but as I understand it, Virtuals had no standards, many bad ones were being planted, and they were eliminated. (There was an attempt to add standards, but it didn't work.) EarthCaches were later (?) invented as a modern Virtual but with strict standards, and one of the standards was that the subject should be geology. Limiting the subject matter allows for actual experts in the field to rule on whether the EarthCache is good enough.

 

Conceptually one could imagine HistoryCaches if the same caliber of reviewing could be put in place, although in practice making the subject history probably would offer too much leeway for abuse since one could argue that just about anything should be considered "History".

TPTB claimed that too many virtuals could be done by finding the information required to log them on the internet. I don't know where that idea came from but it's not correct. I have done enough virtuals to know there is always a question that has to be answered to log the cache that would be impossible to be found online. My personal opinion is TPTB just didn't want to be bothered with them. I used to get the triple A tour books and state tourist information for the states we would be traveling through and virtuals still took me to many things that I would have never found otherwise. I agree that there were some virtuals that I could have been done by searching the internet, but that was because the CO got lazy and didn't make it hard enough.

Edited August 26, 2013 by DonB

[+BAMBOOZLE]

What I have seen written is the reviewers were in a bind regarding which to approve and which were silly.

History caches would be great.....there is an active thread re this.....Keystone has offered to review history caches if an organization ( as in earthcaches ) would partner with GC.com.

We loved virtual history caches.

[+Walts Hunting]

History could be way more difficult than EarthCaches. Since the winner usually writes it it can be subject to different interpertations. Just look at how the Texas state board has affected history books over the last few years. Some things even have different names depending on where you are from I.e. The First Battle of Bull Run, also known as First Manassas. Then there is The Civil War vs The War of Northern Aggression.

[+GEO WALKER]

What I have seen written is the reviewers were in a bind regarding which to approve and which were silly.

History caches would be great.....there is an active thread re this.....Keystone has offered to review history caches if an organization ( as in earthcaches ) would partner with GC.com.

We loved virtual history caches.

I'm noticing more and more that many geocaches on Geotrails are used to develop an awareness of local history. So perhaps tourism boards or historical societies may be of some help?

[BlueRajah]

This really has nothing to do with Earthcaching. So I am packing it up and moving it to the forum for new features and suggestions. I will leave the forwarding link so people that may be looking for the thread here know where it went.

 

<load up the station wagon kids... we are on our way>

Edited September 24, 2013 by BlueRajah

[+cerberus1]

(Yawn) - Just another "bring back..." thread.

[+niraD]

And to cut to the chase, the reason we have EarthCaches is because the Geological Society of America sponsored them, and took care of the issue with the "wow" factor by defining reasonably enforceable guidelines for EarthCaches.

 

We can have HistoryCaches as soon as there is some historical society that is able and willing to do the same thing for history-based virtual caches.

[kabrunsman]

I'm not into Geocaching, but I do really enjoy Earthcaching. I'm an NPS employee currently working to create several Earthcaches at my park, that integrate earth science and history lessons It takes a lot more work to combine the two and be able to relate how each affected the other, which is probably why we don't see as many (though not unheard of; Gettysburg has a couple very well done ones). I'm not sure how you would quantify history in such a way as to confirm that someone actually visited the site, rather than went to Wikipedia, unless asking silly questions like "which regiment was pictured on the wayside at X location," which is not the point.

[+J Grouchy]

Way I see it, folks really CAN still create virtuals at GC. All it involves is a multi or mystery cache, sending the finder to a spot to gather the proper data to use toward finding an actual physical cache for signing. I'm not really a fan of straight virtuals where you have to email the CO...I enjoy the challenge of finding the hidden objects. Being required to gather intel at a "virtual" spot (waypoint) to make the find only makes it that much more interesting for me. There are so many multicaches and mystery caches that already employ this technique.

[+tozainamboku]

I'm not into Geocaching, but I do really enjoy Earthcaching. I'm an NPS employee currently working to create several Earthcaches at my park, that integrate earth science and history lessons It takes a lot more work to combine the two and be able to relate how each affected the other, which is probably why we don't see as many (though not unheard of; Gettysburg has a couple very well done ones). I'm not sure how you would quantify history in such a way as to confirm that someone actually visited the site, rather than went to Wikipedia, unless asking silly questions like "which regiment was pictured on the wayside at X location," which is not the point.

The original idea for virtual caches was to allow a geocaching type experience at a location where a physical cache could not be placed. The key factors, which were often ignored, was that you had to find some object using the GPS coordinates and that there was a way to confirm your find (since there was no log to sign). Often the confirmation involved answering a question that supposedly you could only answer if you had found the object.

 

What happened is that people started to use virtual caches to share interesting places. These may have some historic, scientific, or cultural value. They often involved answering question about the area, and most of the time the answers could be found on the internet. This use of virtual caches was further encouraged when the "wow" rule was added, stating that a virtual caches have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets them apart from everyday subjects.

 

The Geographic Society of America proposed EarthCaches as a kind of virtual cache with earth science interest. Ultimately Groundspeak agreed to list them as a separate type and also have them emphasize the educational aspect of visiting the place instead of making it about finding some particular object. IMO, EarthCaches are even less geocaching than most virtuals.

 

Groundspeak set up the Waymarking site at the the time Virtual Caches were grandfathered. This site was supposed to provide a way to share interesting places and allow people to visit them. There were even ideas put forward to have Waymarking categories that would emphasize the educational experince of visits - much like EarthCaches. In the beginning, EarthCache.org seemed to be a big supported of Waymarking, creating an EarthCache category and accepting new EarthCaches only as waymarks instead of as geocaches. But there was a lot of pushback from people placing EarthCaches becuase they got visited less often on the new site than they would have if placed on Geocaching.com. EarthCache.org reversed their position and EarthCaches remained on Geocaching.com. One can speculate on the reasons that Groundspeak may have gone along with this decision.

 

Shortly afterwards, Groundspeak seems to have realized that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. They seem to have abandoned Waymarking to a small group who were inteterested in catalogging locations and they no longer presented it as a place for educational or even virtual geocaching experiences.

 

Recently there have been some indications that if the appropriate groups were to partner with Groundspeak in the way GSA/EarthCache.org did, that they might consider other educational cache types.