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Canadian Geocoins?

#1 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 14 January 2002 - 02:00 PM

Has anyone seen the Geocoins that Mount10bike has? I managed to grab one out of a local cache a few weeks ago and I was really impressed with the quality. If you haven't seen one, take a look at this: http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=1782.

So... Why am I telling you all this? Well, I contacted Jeremy and the company that minted the coins for Mount10bike and I could get some made for around $10 CDN a piece. Instead of the Mountain bike stuff, I'd get Canada written at the top and a red Maple leaf in the center.

So... The question is: How many people would be interested in getting one? Or two? I'm not nessarily looking for a firm commitment but I'd like a realistic number before I dish out a pile of money.

Any comments?
Gilles

#2 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 14 January 2002 - 04:29 PM

hello thibaug,
Wow. A geocahcing coin for Canada. I think its a great idea. I also think its a good idea to make provincial coins. Make a set. The Geocache symbol on one side and a provincial symbol on the other with the Canada geocach coin as a centre piece. These could be made in limited quanties and numbered. Pre-ordering sets with a down payment would be required. As well, personal geocache coins could also be done similar to this first one, Call for designs from Geocachers, have a contest for the Canadian coin and each of the provinces. The design winner would get a set free for their design/province, same for the Canada coin.

I have seen some cheap collectors coins that have tarnished or the coating peels off in a couple years. I think the geocache coins need to be a little sturdier if people are going to place them in caches and use as travel bugs around the world.

This would also open up the possibilities of people having their own geocache coins made... say a set of ten or twelve numbered coins... with their name for a set price. (12 for the 12 months of the year) There are a number of ideas to make up sets.

#3 Guest_blackjak_*

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Posted 14 January 2002 - 10:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by thibaug:
So... The question is: How many people would be interested in getting one? Or two? I'm not nessarily looking for a firm commitment but I'd like a realistic number before I dish out a pile of money.

Any comments?
Gilles



I would take a few provincial ones! If in fact we are going provincial. I like that idea, it could make it more of a collectable piece then. Having a design contest might also make for a nice looking coin.
Alex.

#4 Guest_blackjak_*

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Posted 14 January 2002 - 10:10 PM

1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:
Originally posted by thibaug:
So... The question is: How many people would be interested in getting one? Or two? I'm not nessarily looking for a firm commitment but I'd like a realistic number before I dish out a pile of money.

Any comments?
Gilles



I would take a few provincial ones! If in fact we are going provincial. I like that idea, it could make it more of a collectable piece then. Having a design contest might also make for a nice looking coin.
Alex.

#5 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 14 January 2002 - 11:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blackjak:
I would take a few provincial ones!
Alex.



It's a great idea guys, and I had actually considered it, but the minimum you can get of the same design is 100 coins and that'll cost you $500 USD. And that's only because I'd be re-using one side of Mount10bike's dies. And then there will be a fee to make them Travel bugs (for Jeremy's time to set them up and to help with server costs). The other aspect is that they have to be Travel Bugs with a number because we're using the Geocaching logo... Although we might be able to work something out for paying Jeremy a commission. I'm not sure...

So... Based on the response for the Canadian coins, and if they sell well, etc. I would possibly consider doing some more later, but I don't have that kind of money unless people paid upfront, and that's a whole other issue. For all the provinces, you're talking about over $7000 USD initial cash outlay! And then all the issues of dealing with the various designs, orders, shipping, customs, etc... I'm not doing this to make any money, just to get something a little different for Canadians, and that would be way more work than I can currently handle. Unless someone would like to volunteer? (Preferably someone with a large bank account!) Posted Image

So... I like the idea, but I think it would still be nice to at least have a Canadian version...

Any one interested in a Canadian version?

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 15 January 2002).]

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 15 January 2002).]

#6 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 14 January 2002 - 11:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blackjak:
I would take a few provincial ones!
Alex.



It's a great idea guys, and I had actually considered it, but the minimum you can get of the same design is 100 coins and that'll cost you $500 USD. And that's only because I'd be re-using one side of Mount10bike's dies. And then there will be a fee to make them Travel bugs (for Jeremy's time to set them up and to help with server costs). The other aspect is that they have to be Travel Bugs with a number because we're using the Geocaching logo... Although we might be able to work something out for paying Jeremy a commission. I'm not sure...

So... Based on the response for the Canadian coins, and if they sell well, etc. I would possibly consider doing some more later, but I don't have that kind of money unless people paid upfront, and that's a whole other issue. For all the provinces, you're talking about over $7000 USD initial cash outlay! And then all the issues of dealing with the various designs, orders, shipping, customs, etc... I'm not doing this to make any money, just to get something a little different for Canadians, and that would be way more work than I can currently handle. Unless someone would like to volunteer? (Preferably someone with a large bank account!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So... I like the idea, but I think it would still be nice to at least have a Canadian version...

Any one interested in a Canadian version?

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 15 January 2002).]

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 15 January 2002).]

#7 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 15 January 2002 - 10:42 AM

What? !

We don't make coins in Canada?

#8 Guest_300mag_*

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Posted 15 January 2002 - 11:01 AM

Hi thibaug
This is pretty cool but also pretty expensive.There is a place i know near my work where they do all sorts of medals even military.I am pretty sure they can come up with something like this .In canadian $$$$
I'll give it a check when i pass by.

#9 Guest_mrgigabyte_*

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Posted 15 January 2002 - 11:06 AM

quote:
We don't make coins in Canada?


How about this firm located in London...

http://strathcraft.com/

...Click on the "Medals" link.



[This message has been edited by mrgigabyte (edited 26 February 2002).]

#10 Guest_300mag_*

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Posted 15 January 2002 - 11:54 AM

Tks mrgigabite looks like a nice outfit up there in London Ontario.

#11 Guest_adleus_*

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Posted 15 January 2002 - 01:54 PM

I would like one of these coins! Sounds like a great idea. Good thinking!

#12 Guest_Sliver_*

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 01:35 AM

Sounds like a good idea. The coins look great !

#13 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 11:42 AM

just noticed lots of people are hyped up on geocards too -- there are a number of great designs.

So.... which would you like? ...coins or laminated cards

Which would be cheaper?

any other ideas while we're kicking this around ... kick...kick...kick

......mugs, t-shirts, ball caps, engraved silver cups, gold GPS satelite trophies, embroidered badges, silk screened boxer shorts... for men and ladies .. of course.


[This message has been edited by P38manCdn (edited 16 January 2002).]

#14 Guest_Sliver_*

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 01:04 PM

The card and the coin are both good ideas.
I personally like the coin idea better. Another coffee mug :rolleyes oh all right then Posted Image

1 vote coin Posted Image

#15 Guest_Sliver_*

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 01:04 PM

The card and the coin are both good ideas.
I personally like the coin idea better. Another coffee mug :rolleyes oh all right then /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1 vote coin /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

#16 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 03:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
What? !

We don't make coins in Canada?



Well, it looks like we do. Posted Image I contacted the guys at StrathCraft to get an idea of the price. It looks like we could save about $1-2 per coin (I don't know what Jeremy is going to charge yet) by having them made up here. From what I can tell, the coin would be pretty similar in size, color, etc. My only question was the quality, and they're going to send me a sample of a similar coin. I'll post a picture of it when I get it.

Does that price sound much better, or is that still too much?

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 17 January 2002).]

#17 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 03:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
What? !

We don't make coins in Canada?



Well, it looks like we do. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I contacted the guys at StrathCraft to get an idea of the price. It looks like we could save about $1-2 per coin (I don't know what Jeremy is going to charge yet) by having them made up here. From what I can tell, the coin would be pretty similar in size, color, etc. My only question was the quality, and they're going to send me a sample of a similar coin. I'll post a picture of it when I get it.

Does that price sound much better, or is that still too much?

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 17 January 2002).]

#18 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 11:47 AM

$2 per coin made here sounds ok to me.

I was also thinking of geopins. And I saw those 2 inch pin-on buttons that someone had made for their caches.

Lots of ideas....

now if someone would stash a cache full of fancy-top-of-the-line GPS units.........YES !!! LOL

[This message has been edited by P38manCdn (edited 17 January 2002).]

#19 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 12:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
$2 per coin made here sounds ok to me.



No, no, I said saving $1 or $2. The price would be $7-8 per coin.

Keep in mind that along with being very cool, it's also a travel bug which are already selling for $10 Canadian!

#20 Guest_Clay_*

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 02:06 AM

If you guys are going to get these in caches, I think I'll wait a while before finding some of the ON. caches until some show up in a few!!! Bring them back, make them international.

#21 Guest_adleus_*

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 02:38 PM

Coin for sure! Vote #2

#22 Guest_lemur_*

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Posted 20 January 2002 - 03:09 AM

Cards or coins sound great...Let me know details and I'm in for 50$ worth...cdn

#23 Guest_blackjak_*

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Posted 20 January 2002 - 02:50 PM

Yea, I'll commit to $50 bucks worth as well, provided I can see the design etc..

Alex.

#24 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 06:19 AM

If the coins are going to be used as travel bugs... do they need a hole in the design for some sort of travel tag?

Also, should we hold a design contest for the coins?

And for those interested in other forms of geo-stuff -- cards, pins, buttons, etc what are the numbers who want these items?

#25 Guest_Sliver_*

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 06:55 AM

I would be interested in some of the coins..
$50.00 worth I would figure, depending on the cost of the coin..... Maybe more maybe less..
Please let me know

Thanks

#26 Guest_Sliver_*

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 06:56 AM

maybe some cooins with holes, and some without ??? what do you think ?

#27 Guest_mrgigabyte_*

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 07:36 AM

quote:
If the coins are going to be used as travel bugs... do they need a hole in the design for some sort of travel tag?


No hole would be necessary since the coin IS the Travel Bug. If you look at Mount10Bikes coins, you will see a unique ID number on each one. Jeremy may set it up so that these will be recognized as Travel Bugs. Of course, there will be a fee payable to Jeremy involved, as this is detracting sales of his Bugs.



Here is a useful thread on signature items that others have made.

#28 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 12:31 PM

Just wondering why we would have to pay Americans for a Canadian made coin?

I thought this whole process was so we wouldn't have to pay currency exchange and American prices.

Now you're saying we'll have to pay royalties for making a Canadian designed coin?

[This message has been edited by P38manCdn (edited 21 January 2002).]

#29 Guest_mrgigabyte_*

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 01:16 PM

quote:
Now you're saying we'll have to pay royalties for making a Canadian designed coin?


If you are referring to my previous reference to paying a fee to Jeremy, then you are correct...sort of. Travel Bugs, and their ability to be tracked is maintained by the Groundspeak Travel Bugs web site. Hiders and finders just enter the TB number and get full access to the TB's history.

Jeremy created TB's and the mechanism to track them. To pay for that development, he sells TB's through his Groundspeak store. If we create our our bug (ID labeled coins), we need to compensate Jeremy for his allowing our coins to be used as Travel Bugs. Otherwise, there is no way to track their movements.

#30 Guest_outforthehunt_*

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 12:28 AM

Thibaug here is another place in Canada that makes pins. They make our olympic pins.
www.pinpeople.com.

#31 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 12:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mrgigabyte:
we need to compensate Jeremy for his allowing our coins to be used as Travel Bugs. Otherwise, there is no way to track their movements.



Here's what Jeremy said: "I could certainly arrange a batch of numbers and activation codes as long as a small fee was added to the cost to maintain everything site side."

It doesn't sound like it would be much. I think he's looking more to get paid for the extra stuff he'd have to do and not necessarily for lost sales. I sent him another email about this but still haven't heard back.

#32 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 12:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by outforthehunt:
Thibaug here is another place in Canada that makes pins. They make our olympic pins.
www.pinpeople.com.



I'll send them an email too. Thanks!

#33 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 05:40 AM

Ok. I understand now about the fee to Jeremy. Just wondering if those not wanting to have a travel bug, but to have something destinctive for their own cache would like the coin anyway? And on that same theme, would laminated trading cards, lapel pins, and pin-on-buttons do the same thing for the personal novelty item for your cache?

Would we need some sort of Canadian geocache logo design? Or do we have to use the Amercian one?

Of course people can make up their own "cache coins/cards/pins/buttons" as they please... as many already have. There are some outstanding items out there and its clear some didn't stick to the geocaching logo.

I'm just trying to include all those who think they want something, but are not sure what, so I've tried to think of some things that might be interesting and not cost too much (tunnel vision/too fucussed). There are many marketing companies that specialize in promotional items such as pens, buttons, trophies, and other things. I just felt it might be nice to include others who might like some other form of item besides coins.... and it could/would/may get around being obligated to someone for a design and/or royalties or "other fees".

#34 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 06:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
Ok. I understand now about the fee to Jeremy. Just wondering if those not wanting to have a travel bug, but to have something distinctive for their own cache would like the coin anyway? And on that same theme, would laminated trading cards, lapel pins, and pin-on-buttons do the same thing for the personal novelty item for your cache?



Would you leave an $8 item in your caches?

quote:

Would we need some sort of Canadian geocache logo design? Or do we have to use the American one?



I don't imagine there are any restrictions on this. Is the term Geocaching copyrighted?

quote:

I'm just trying to include all those who think they want something, but are not sure what, so I've tried to think of some things that might be interesting and not cost too much (tunnel vision/too focussed). There are many marketing companies that specialize in promotional items such as pens, buttons, trophies, and other things. I just felt it might be nice to include others who might like some other form of item besides coins.... and it could/would/may get around being obligated to someone for a design and/or royalties or "other fees".



Well, I've considered a lot of different aspects and the collectable concept was always there. But since this is out of pocket money for me, I figured that if someone was looking for a travel bugs and for $10 they could choose either the regular one or for the same price (or less), they could have a nicer looking Canadian version, that they would choose the Canadian version. It might take a while, but at least I don't end up with 80 coins! That's the main reason I've been pushing the coins...

The other aspect is the Geocaching logo: Jeremy has stated many times that people are free to do anything they want with the logo as long as it's not for commercial purposes. If I make travel bugs and he gets a fee then I'm Ok. If the coins become collectables or key chains then this turns into a commercial use. I've sent him a number of emails about this but I haven't received any response at all.

I got a reply back from the coin place and they can add a key chain attachment for $0.35 per coin. I had originally ruled this out because I was trying to limit the cost since that seemed to be one of the main issues. So, I guess what I could do is get the key chains put on and then people can use it as a travel bug, a collectable or a key chain. (This is assuming I hear back from Jeremy and what his fee might be.)

So, would people pay $8 for a key chain?

#35 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 22 January 2002 - 12:28 PM

Gee..... if I turn around and look here -- the price will be up another buck -- LOL.

Ok. I understand. Its tough getting a commitment from people for something they can't actually see. Getting them to invest in something still on the drawing board is even tougher.

I guess we should keep a running total of who wants what... coins, with or without key chain attatchment, cards, pins, buttons, and anything else someone might think would be nice. Those stating an interest in an item should be responsible for digging up at least two companys and quotes for limited quantities.

I wonder if we should have any Canadian design ideas drawn up by some of the art specialist who geocache?

This seems to be coming together, through discussions, and the more positive things we have in print here, the more I think people will tend to get onboard.

As to $8-$10 items in your cache -- well I've seen Cd's, Swiss army jackknifes, Disney video, and other items over $8. You may not want to have 5-6 of them in your cache at one time, but occasionally you can drop by, check on your cache, and drop in another coin, pin, button, etc. Once every other month would be plenty and you'd cover a year that way with your supply of coins, pins, buttons, cards.

#36 Guest_Clay_*

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Posted 23 January 2002 - 01:34 AM

question was asked, "I don't imagin there are any restrictions on this. Is the term Geocaching copyrighted?

I think I remember a thread several months ago about using the Geocaching logo and Jeremy had no problems with it. You may want to try sifting through the archived threads.

#37 Guest_Ttepee_*

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Posted 23 January 2002 - 05:57 AM

Hope you don't mind an American butting in here but I wanted to suggest you talk to Moun10bike. I seem to recall him recently mentioning that he's not using his coins as travel bugs anymore because they seem to drift off anyways. Another thing to keep in mind for travel bugs is that not everyone knows how to log them and at this point seem to have a high tendancy to go MIA. If I were you I would definitely go for the hole in the coin so that you can attach some sort of laminated instruction card if you are going to use them as travel bugs. Just sharing my thoughts.

#38 Guest_300mag_*

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Posted 23 January 2002 - 11:12 AM

Thanks for your comments ttepee. I guess this would be a good souvenir.I know I would like to get one.Imagine collecting all geocoins.The idea of geocoins like travel bug is good but i'd like better collecting them.

#39 Guest_mrgigabyte_*

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Posted 25 January 2002 - 04:16 AM

Mount10Bike and Just a Short Walk, just posted an alternative to coins in this thread.

http://forums.groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000693.html

Here is the page he was referring to. Perhaps we can find a Canadian mint that bangs out driving range tokens etc.

http://www.hoffmanmint.com/tokens.html

#40 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 01:56 AM

Got a quote from a metal die and stamping company in BC that does all kinds of tokens and medallions.....

http://www.pressedmetal.net/medallions_page2.

The shiny brass one is roughtly what I was think of, but without the little dots around the edge.

The set up for a 1.5 inch diameter token for the die stamp is approx $150 per side depending on the design. Then its $4.60 per token for an order of 10-25 ...and $4.40 per token from 26-50 in number. These prices will change slightly depending on the simplicity of the design.

I asked about numbering them and thats big bucks... another $150 on the order and more as you increase the number of tokens ordered.

Also... this place here in Ontario makes plastic tokens and other similar products....

http://www.dwbcanada.com/tokens.html

These may be cheaper per token but I'm sure the die stamp setup will be roughly similar.. . around $150 per side. I'll have to check with them next week, they were closed Friday evening.


[This message has been edited by P38manCdn (edited 26 January 2002).]

[This message has been edited by P38manCdn (edited 26 January 2002).]

#41 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 02:22 AM

ited by thibaug (edited 26 January 2002).]

#42 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 02:22 AM

http://strathcraft.com/.

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
Ok. I understand. Its tough getting a commitment from people for something they can't actually see. Getting them to invest in something still on the drawing board is even tougher.



All I'm really looking for a this point is a serious "yeah, I'd take a few".

quote:

I wonder if we should have any Canadian design ideas drawn up by some of the art specialist who geocache?



Any volunteers? I kind of like the current Geocaching logo.

quote:

As to $8-$10 items in your cache -- well I've seen Cd's, Swiss army jackknifes, Disney video, and other items over $8. You may not want to have 5-6 of them in your cache at one time, but occasionally you can drop by, check on your cache, and drop in another coin, pin, button, etc. Once every other month would be plenty and you'd cover a year that way with your supply of coins, pins, buttons, cards.



I agree. I regularly buy some Geocaching keychains for caches I visit. I pretty much know that the first person who visits the cache will take it. I was just wondering if other people felt the same.

Still no reply from Jeremy....

[This message has been edited by thibaug (edited 26 January 2002).]

#43 Guest_mrgigabyte_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 12:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
Got a quote from a metal die and stamping company in BC...http://www.pressedmetal.net/medallions_page2.



This company is about 5 minutes from here. I could go and get some samples if we thought we wanted to use them. Based on their web site, they are the first medal/token maker I have seen that actually cares about their web presence. All the other sites look like the lathe operator built the site instead of their graphic artist. That may not mean much to you, but that is generally indicative of the way companies do business.



I think that I do want the ability to track my token. I may want to leave a log "Left Canadian Geocoin number 1234 in cache" etc. I may even get around to building a web app to track any coins I left.

Also, we will know who originally had what coins. A year from now we may find one in a cache and want to know where it originated. This way we could do it without any web app at all. (assuming we track who got what range of numbers when they ordered them)

To do so certainly would require the number stamped on the token. If we get enough struck, that should minimize the cost somewhat. As such, my prototype shows an example with 4 digits factory stamped.

Comments?

#44 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 12:13 PM

The idea of numbering the tokens is not so much for travel bugs but for collectors. If you get to be first to a cache there is token #1. And a month later someone else will find #2 in the cache. Obviously, the tokens would be incentives for people to rush out to new caches or check back on ones they've already done and pick up token #2 or #3.

The token could have a Canadian logo on one side and a provincial logo on the other. Lots of ideas, I'm sure.

#45 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 12:26 PM

I think I've come up with an idea to overcome the risk of commitment and giving money to others for a possible order.

Once a group of us agrees to a specific design and manufacturer, then we'd give a list of prospective buyers to the manufacturer. Members of the group would have 30 days to pay their share. When all those on the list give their share of the total cost to the manufacturer, then the order can be processed and manufacturing begin. If anyone backs out, then we can look for a replacement or divide that share between the remaining members of the group.

[This message has been edited by P38manCdn (edited 26 January 2002).]

#46 Guest_Clay_*

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Posted 26 January 2002 - 01:16 PM

OK, time to start planning a trip across the bridge to do some caches. That coin looks great. I like how you worked the maple leaf into it.

#47 Guest_thibaug_*

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Posted 27 January 2002 - 02:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by P38manCdn:
[B]Got a quote from a metal die and stamping company in BC that does all kinds of tokens and medallions.....

http://www.pressedmetal.net/medallions_page2.



It's an interesting alternative, but doesn't this end up around $9 per coin with no color?

#48 Guest_P38manCdn_*

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Posted 27 January 2002 - 08:42 AM

Well it depends on how many people we get to split the die setup costs and if people want colour or polished brass. There may be other alternatives as well... i.e. coloured plastic tokens. I think people are just getting serious about it now. Its gone beyond the "gee, thats a great idea stage". We now have quotes from two different companies. More are bound to be posted.

#49 Guest_mazda626_*

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Posted 29 January 2002 - 02:37 AM

mrgigabyte

Your design looks great and the prices are very reasonable. I'm wondering though if they have a sellection of "stock" dies such as provincial crests which could be used to avoid tooling costs for one side of the coin.

This could reduce the costs further and create a series of coins to collect.

Having said that I would still be interested in your design as proposed for 20 coins.

Mike

#50 Guest_lemur_*

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Posted 29 January 2002 - 02:28 PM

put me down for $50 worth...I'll pay shipping on top....where do I send money order?

Rob

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