Cache Description "Condition Icons"

[DisQuoi]

This topic is based on a thread that started because cursorcusser said he wishes that people would state whether dogs were allowed or not at any given cache so as not to waste a trip.

 

Scooterj has used existing (and some customized) park symbols to designate conditions at his caches. Check out a couple of his caches here and here. He's offered the use of these symbols at this web address.

 

I'm interested in knowing if there would be support for making these or similar symbols a standard part of a cache description (built-in to the web-site). They could be optional, of course.

 

Would you support the implementation of "condition icons" as a standard component to new cache descriptions?

 

(Below are Scooterj's icons for reference)

 

[Jeremy]

After finishing the advanced search feature, palmable data and extension of the log description field, I'll be adding attributes for cache pages (that are voluntary).

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+MissJenn]

Isn't it really cool when a community of people share information like this? Wow!

 

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You must be present to win.

[+Criminal]

I was just thinking of asking about an icon (or icons) for bike friendly or non-bike friendly caches. Maybe one for a "night friendly" cache too?

[Geo Quest]

I heartily endorse said proposition.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

[+Team Hoijong]

I think it will be a very good idea..

 

Don't mather how far you get from home, you will always get back there to get out again

[+mtn-man]

I am glad he would not mind if some of us borrowed some of them until Jeremy gets time to add them in...

 

Thanks for the info DisQuoi, that is really cool.

 

I support the Georgia Geocachers Association, or the GGA!

 

[This message was edited by mtn-man on June 02, 2002 at 06:18 AM.]

[+st_richardson]

I really like the pop up descriptions he has with them.

[+mrcpu]

Once Jeremy adds this in I HOPE he makes sure that they are searchable! This would greatly help people looking for handicap friendly caches.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

[+ClayJar]

quote:

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Originally posted by mrcpu:

Once Jeremy adds this in I HOPE he makes sure that they are searchable! This would greatly help people looking for handicap friendly caches.

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...or ClayJar's favorite, the "you've *got* to be kidding" caches.

[GeoStars]

It'd be nice if we could conduct a search based on difficulty rating too.

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

[sc]

I suppose a jogger-stroller and a bike are about the same... but people with very small kids might like to know if it is a back-pack or stroller terain.

[+Nikan]

Add my voice to this chorus of adulation. Fantastic!

[+Ozarktroutbum]

Is this REALLY neccesary?? What happened to the sense of adventure and the thrill of the unknown? What about the Boy Scout Motto of "Always Be Prepared!" If you have special requirements, DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK! Why should you expect the placer to do it for you? They already spent time and bucks to place the cache, now you want emoticons telling you what to expect when you get there? Stick to 1/1's and you shouldnt have to worry about strollers, long pants, public restrooms and refreshments. Don't the star ratings pretty much cover it? Geez, we are working hard to sanitize this to the point where we might as well stay home doing stupid locationless caches and sending each other trinkets via UPS. Next thing you know someone will be wanting to rate "cache kharma" or some other nonsense.

 

Get real folks, you can't have EVERYTHING handed to you.

 

Do I have to draw you a map?????

[+Harrald]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ozarktroutbum: <>

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Wow!!

 

What a pleasant person. It's not really that big a deal is it?

 

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As always, the above statements are just MHO.

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[+georgeandmary]

quote:

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Originally posted by Harrald:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ozarktroutbum: <>

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Wow!!

 

What a pleasant person. It's not really that big a deal is it?

 

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As always, the above statements are just MHO.

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How sanitized do we want this? Part of the game is figuring out what you need to find the cache. I just did my first underwater cache this weekend. I way over prepared. I figured I needed a boat, snorkel, goggles, extra clothes, dry sack for the gps... When I got there I found out that it was only waist deep. It was 100 ft off shore but only waist deep. Now how much fun would it have been if the hider just told me that.

 

Shouldn't the effort be made on the seekers side and not so much on the hiders side?

 

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+ClayJar]

My what a big mouth you have, Ozarktroutbum.

 

Seriously, though, you've got it *quite* wrong, here. The "cache attributes" are not just so you can look at a cache and tell whether you can hunt it with a nearly broken ankle. More importantly, can you tell me any other way of doing a search for hydrocaches within 150 miles of Bacon County? (I'll take that as a no, which is only logical, since there currently is no way to do that search.)

 

Having cache attributes is going to make my life a *whole* lot easier. (Do you know how many caches there are between Texas and Georgia? I've spent *days* looking for good hydrocaches.) Oh, and as for your question about whether stars are enough, I say, "Well, of course not!" for the reason stated above.

[+Jamie Z]

I gotta say, OTB has made me reconsider my original thought about the icons. I thought they were pretty cool... but now I wonder how much I really want to know.

 

Most caches are pretty easy anyway.

 

I'm not opposed to the icons... but I don't know how much I'll rely on them.

 

Jamie

 

(That reminds me.. I still have my cache-in-planning in planning. Now that it's summer and I have time, I ought to get my butt finishing it.)

[DisQuoi]

Ozarktroutbum, sorry if I ruined your day over an idea. I think you're a bit too involved if your blood pressure rises while reading a message board.

 

Actually, anyone familiar with this sport realizes that there are several classes of caches. Certainly some of them are high adventure challenges for those who carry Power Bars in their pocket (like you, I'm sure). Clearly the builder of these caches can decide how much to reveal or leave up to the cacher to discover. For these caches, condition icons obviously don't apply ... which is why they would be optional. (George, I'm guessing that your waist-high-in-water cache was in this category). Noone's looking to sanitize your fun on these.

 

Then there is a [much more common] class of caches that are designed for and used by families with several children/dogs/monthers-in-law. Generally the people who search for these caches are making a family outing of it. They're not looking for a Mission Impossible. For the love of all that's holy, these are in parks with playgrounds and paved trails. ... and bathroom. If you had a 3-year-old with you, you'd understand. I think the icons would apply mostly to this class of cache/cacher.

 

I have hidden both types of caches. While I could include alot of hints and suggestions for some of them, I see the value in leaving some unexpected conditions to the seeker. (Although, if one was available, I might slap a "no kids" icon up there). Or, if it's remote and I know that dogs aren't allowed in a park, why not just tell the cach-seeker ahead of time to leave his dog alone. You won't find that information on a map. In one of my caches, he won't know what part of the county the cache is in until he gets there. It also require's a boat. It's no secret, I say so in the description. I did so because the seeker would have no way of knowing until he got there. In fact, replacing the whole boat part of the description with a hydrocache icon would probably make the preparation even more difficult. Here's a link if you're interested.

 

Even if it's a 1/1 cache, we could eliminate verbose descriptions of playground-caches with icons. And if it were searchable, those who favor hydro-caches would focus on what they love. We could add an icon that says "No Conditions Revealed" for those who love surprises 100 miles from home.

 

With hundreds[?] of new caches being placed every month, the icons can help organize the database such that those wanting a snack-bar-cache don't have to search through scores of waist-high-in-water-caches and you can ignore those that "say too much". It's a win-win.

[scooterj]

Wow, I didn't intend to start World War VII. I originally started using these icons just to let people know whether or not they could bring their dog, whether someone in a wheelchair could make the trip, and to emphasize that a couple of my caches were in places with entrance fees and that a couple had very limited hours of accessibility.

[+ClayJar]

quote:

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Originally posted by scooterj:

Wow, I didn't intend to start World War VII.

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Actually, this is World War VIII. We decided that World War VI ("login to view cache coordinates") was really two separate wars -- World War VI, which covered people who loot caches, and World War VII, which covered people who cache but don't log online. I guess the memo must have gotten caught up in committee or something, but I'll check into it.

[+st_richardson]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

After finishing the advanced search feature, palmable data and extension of the log description field, I'll be adding attributes for cache pages (that are voluntary).

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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Wow This site keeps getting better & better!

The quality of the geocaching site and forum really make the sport work!

[+mrcpu]

quote:

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Originally posted by st_richardson:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

After finishing the advanced search feature, palmable data and extension of the log description field, I'll be adding attributes for cache pages (that are voluntary).

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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__Wow This site keeps getting better & better! __

The quality of the geocaching site and forum really make the sport work!

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I agree!

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

[+Ozarktroutbum]

Use a few all caps words and add some extra punctuation... Works for me!!!!!

 

So now, I'm an un-pleasant, big-mouthed, power bar eating, adventure seeking, geocache junkie with a ruined day? COOL! Two months ago I was just an overweight sofa spud with hemmeroids. I would like to take this oppourtunity to thank Jeremy and geocaching.com for changing my life.

As for my previous although somewhat un-popular statements. I still maintain that most of the information people need is available IF they are willing to look for it. If you are willing to drive 100+ miles for a cache, then you should be willing to try a search engine for the area where you are heading.

Searching for particular cache types? Why not just add a text search feature for the descriptions and kill several birds with one stone. That way you could search caches with ANY theme, birds, trains, dogs, water or whatever. The emoticons ARE really cool looking but is there going to be one for every situation? "I'll take that as a no" too.

There is no doubt that this site keeps getting better, and I can live with a few more emoticons cluttering up my screen. But, like they say, You can't please all the people all the time.

 

Do I have to draw you a map?????

[DisQuoi]

In my opinion, something like the condition icons at the top of this thread would not add to the complexity of geocaching.com.

 

First and foremost, the cache type (virtual, multi, event, traditional) should be eliminated from the current level and placed in the cache description along with the other proposed conditions. If you think about it, the cache-type icons were a base level implementation of what I am proposing. As the number of caches grew from hundreds to thousands it made sense to provide a high-level view of different cache types. Now that the number of caches is growing from thousands to tens of thousands, it makes sense to provide further high-level overview.

 

If the search function allowed for filters based on the condition icons, people could finally get those playground-caches or virtual-caches off of their search results. If cursorcusser wants to keep caches where he can't bring his dog, give him the ability to keep those out of his search results. If clayjar loves hydro-caches, don't make him search the forums, just let him search for caches where the owner has selected to include that icon.

 

I agree with you that there should be a word search ability for themes (birds, trains as you say). These are not conditions. Paved trails where your son who is in a wheelchair is a condition. Approached requiring special equipment (boat, ice climbing gear) is a condition. Civil War, Mission Impossible, Porsches, and "Harry Potter" caches are "themes". I don't propose a Harry Potter icon. If you think this would benefit people, make a suggestion for a searchable theme field where people could include "bird" or "train" in the cache description. (By the way, the abilty to search entire cache descriptions would provide terrible results.)

 

I hadn't thought of this until now but I might even suggest that the difficulty levels be abandoned and replaced with difficulty icons (or no difficulty at all). As an example, Scooterj's icons include about ten icons that provide you with an idea of what to expect regarding terrain (wheelchair, walking, hiking, hiking up grade, climbing steep grade, climbing vertically, marsh, etc.) This would address the problem of the wide, arbitrary difficulty scoring that people complain about.

 

Does anyone in this forum do process reengineering for a living? Don't be afraid of change. If this website continues to be developed incrementally, it'll look like Frankenstein. Occasionally you have to step back and look at the big picture. What worked a year ago may not work in six months at the rate that this sport is growing.

 

By the way, Jeremy is doing a great job at this. I would like to take this oppourtunity to thank every one of the forty residents of Maryland, Virginia and Washington DC who have taken the time and money to create wonderful caches for my enjoyment. Thank you for changing my life.

[+ClayJar]

quote:

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Originally posted by DisQuoi:

I hadn't thought of this until now but I might even suggest that the difficulty levels be abandoned and replaced with difficulty icons (or no difficulty at all). As an example, Scooterj's icons include about ten icons that provide you with an idea of what to expect regarding terrain (wheelchair, walking, hiking, hiking up grade, climbing steep grade, climbing vertically, marsh, etc.) This would address the problem of the wide, arbitrary difficulty scoring that people complain about.

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Hmmm... interesting idea. I think I'm in favor of keeping the star ratings for now, but if the cache attributes work as well as their potential suggests, I'd certainly be open to revisiting the possible deprecation of star ratings at some point.

 

One thing that may make deprecating star ratings much more difficult is the *vast* number of caches that already exist. It would likely be very hard to change *all* the caches to having attributes instead of star ratings. With that in mind, however, might I suggest a possible solution to that problem?

 

Basically, if we take the star ratings and create attribute icons based on them, then all the existing caches will have at least attributes for their terrain and difficulty. If, then, at some point in the future we decide to do away with star ratings for new caches, we simply have to remove the star selectors from the new cache report page (and from the edit page, except for caches which already have star ratings). Existing caches would retain their star ratings as cache attributes, unless the hider edited the cache page to remove the stars and add attributes, but future caches would be based solely on attributes.

 

Anyway, as I said, I am not *at this point* advocating doing away with the star ratings, but as you can hopefully see from this suggestion, it *is* indeed a feasible possibility for future discussion.

[+Pepper]

Wow, alot said here. Icons no icons I just go have fun find my cache, log, and repeat.

Have a good day ya'll gotta go hunt before the sun go down.

 

Team SuperGenius

Pepper

 

Horizontals where it's at!

[DisQuoi]

quote:

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Originally posted by SuperGenius:

Wow, alot said here. Icons no icons I just go have fun find my cache, log, and repeat. Have a good day ya'll gotta go hunt before the sun go down.

 

Team SuperGenius

Pepper

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I'm sure there were people focusing on having fun while Jeremy thought of ways to improve geocaching from the original method of posting coordinates on message boards.

 

Geocaching.com is a great way for you to collect coordinates for a weekend of cache hunting. Aren't you glad someone forewent a chance to have fun in the field to make it possible for you?

[+The Leprechauns]

quote:

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Does anyone in this forum do process reengineering for a living? Don't be afraid of change.

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I DO do process reengineering for a living. Which goes a long way towards explaining why I need to walk in the woods hunting for Happy Meal Toys in order to keep my sanity.