Geo-Jerks?

January 20, 2002

I know that this topic is touched on in a number of other threads, but not directly broached, so here goes:

Do you have a geocacher or group of geocachers in your area that are so annoying, so obnoxious and so pompous that you just can't stand them?

Everytime you find or place a cache, these folks comment in a snide or negative way? Or they have to do it bigger, better and cooler than you could possibly, even if you put a great deal of work into both your hunting and hiding techniques? I'm talking about the type of person who, if invited to their homes, would force you to sit and watch the slide show of their most recent geocaching trip to the Bahamas (all with nothing but pictures of themselves going to and doing all of the coolest things)?

These same people don't email you directly if they have a very specific problem with the cache, but instead post derogatory comments in the cache logs? And they love to put photos of themselves right at the cache hiding spot in the log?

Yes, I have nothing to do but complain (right... ). We have a group like that in our area. They are obviously more experienced geocachers than I am but they seem to have the tact of a sledgehammer. I find their condescending comments annoying to the point of wanting to delete the majority of what they post.

Ex: This weekend they found a cache that we placed over a month ago. It has been found by others. I put a lot of thought into the place and the objects in the cache. In their log they comment about the difficulty of the find, claimed our GPS (which isn't as expensive as theirs) must be "way off", commented on the poor quality of the items withing the cache and that the only redeeming quality of the cache was the gorgeous views from it.

Let me add that their signature cache items to place are tiny plastic compasses, little toy paratroopers and play money and that is usually all that is in the cache.

Then, they visited a cache recently placed that we had found. They posted rude comments about something nice I had said in the logbook. I thought that this was unnecessary and it seems as though they are baiting us. These folks don't live here, but they drive here just to geocache.

Am I just too sensitive? Is it cabin fever? I tempted to start leaving mousetraps in caches I place with their names on them... ARGH!

------------------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

http://www.geogadgets.com

http://www.beautywithattitude.com

http://www.w6hy.org

[This message has been edited by RedwoodRed (edited 20 January 2002).]

January 20, 2002

from any personal attacks, I went through and read a large number of the logs that these particular folks have written for the caches they've visited.

I noted that they have a peculiar habit of posting very spoiling photos, and I agree that some of their comments in their logs could be worded more tactfully, if not in private e-mail. Also, it seems that they have an incorrect notion of the accuracy of GPS recievers.

Regardless, I don't think they are targeting you, Red, nor are they hurting Geocaching as a whole. It just seems to be "their way."

What can you do? Post about it in the forums so we can all find some amusement by reading quotes such as, "We are the first finders of Dramamine Drive. Did you contact the manufacturers and obtain permission to use their motion sickness drug name in this Geocache?" I know I enjoyed it.

I only wish more people participated in the forums so that maybe we could hear their perspective, and hopefully they could become more enlightened and sensitive.

Oh well,

Jamie

January 20, 2002

I suspect that you are from the East Coast and they are from the left coast. Some people from the left coast are too full of them self?s and the people from elsewhere may have a different view on Life. Do not take it too personally, and let there blood pressure go up, not yours.

January 20, 2002

I'm with Jamie here. I don't think it's personal, just seems to be the way they are.

Dont sweat it.

Some people just never even realize they're acting like jerks.

[This message has been edited by Mopar (edited 20 January 2002).]

January 20, 2002

You forgot to add "This is Complaint #1 for XXXXyers". I don't find the comments so bad, but the pix. Some of them are direct pictures of where it is hidden.

January 20, 2002

Red,

I hate to say it, but "jerk" is in the eye of the beholder. Most people don't deliberately try to be jerks, they are just living their lives differently from the way you (or I) do. It probably never occurred to them that you've taken offense.

My definition of "jerk" is someone who smokes in restaurants, talks on cell phones in public, and cuts in line when traffic is backed up. I'm sure people think I'm a jerk and chances are, someone thinks you are too.

You seem like a nice person and you are obviously passionate about what you do. Go on about your life, don't let the bas***ds get you down, and don't apologize for living your life the way you feel is correct.

As for the pictures, if you are the cache owner, you can delete the photos.

Peace.

-E

------------------

N35°32.981 W98°34.631

[This message has been edited by TresOkies (edited 20 January 2002).]

January 20, 2002

Think of it this way Red.

There are 3 kinds of people in the world.

You, me and the others. As I tell my kids when they look in the mirror only worry about the image not somebody's elses refelctions.

Why do people like to sit in the front of the bus. Sit in the back of the church and be the center of attention. I imagine that group you are talking about has a large bruise on their left shoulder caused by self inflicted pats of praise caused by their own right hands.

If your user name implys that you have red hair, I can understand I still have mine and the tempermant that is associated with this hue. Enjoy life, look the other way, have a beer and forget those jerks.

------------------

JoseCanUSea

January 20, 2002

I think for the most part you are right on. Some don't realize that once they were the newbies and their caches didn't need to pass the panel of finders to be called coool caches. Just because some may have been at it longer or think everything they do is the only way doesn't mean their standard is the one to be measured up to. Have fun and enjoy the game and the many really nice people who participate in this forum and geocaching in general.

sidewinder

January 20, 2002

Guess we're lucky around here. Our most experienced geocachers have been very supportive and encouraging towards "newbies". Having some get togethers always helps to bring the geocachers together. Maybe set one up in your area? Might help to change the tone of things.

January 20, 2002

You should have addressed this privately. It's disingenuous to think by not using names the people you're complaining of are staying anonymous. This amounts to a public attack on very active members of the geocaching community. It would be fair if they were participating in this thread to have the chance to explain their views.

January 20, 2002

To get them to stop posting pictures of the cache hiding spot, start posting pictures of theirs!!

January 20, 2002

hide a cache, and for them to bother to say anything about this, is, again lame

3.the fact that they say that the only redeeming thing is the nice view/location, makes me think they might be geocaching for different reasons than alot of us, for alot of us, it _is_ all about location. cache could just be a logbook. granted some people are in it for the fun of finding something, but i think vry few are in it for "quality" items in a cache. true, people can put silly/dumb things in a cache, but, whatever, its all subjective.

again, these are all issues that have been debated ad nauseum, but they are really being silly posting things like these...

c/n

January 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Clay:
To get them to stop posting pictures of the cache hiding spot, start posting pictures of theirs!!

I don't believe that would work. Just reinforcement for what they must see as the way to post their finds. I would delete what they posted that was too reveiling or rude and tell them why, if it was one of my caches. Thank goodness for Geoforums where we can get feedback and sometimes vent. This group prolly never visits this part of Geocaching so may never get a clue to what is bothering other geocachers. If they even care.[ ]

------------------

"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender". Vince Lombarde

January 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Clay:
To get them to stop posting pictures of the cache hiding spot, start posting pictures of theirs!!

I don't believe that would work. Just reinforcement for what they must see as the way to post their finds. I would delete what they posted that was too reveiling or rude and tell them why, if it was one of my caches. Thank goodness for Geoforums where we can get feedback and sometimes vent. This group prolly never visits this part of Geocaching so may never get a clue to what is bothering other geocachers. If they even care.[ ]

------------------

"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender". Vince Lombarde

January 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Lazyboy:
Guess we're lucky around here. Our most experienced geocachers have been very supportive and encouraging towards "newbies". Having some get togethers always helps to bring the geocachers together. Maybe set one up in your area? Might help to change the tone of things.

Funny you should mention that, Lazyboy. I was looking for caches along the Oregon coast to visit and kept seeing your caches, though not in the area I was looking for. You must live near Ashland/Medford, huh? Tonto emailed me not too long ago and invited us to some of your winter gettogethers in the Valley. Would you email us and let us know when and where you meet? Heck, we'd drive to Ashland just for the sushi... geocaching during the trip would be icing on the, er, rice cake!

I would love to have a group meeting of geocachers. But these folks don't live nearby, so I doubt that they would come.

And yes, I was wrong to assume that no one would figure out to whom I was referring... I suppose that by not emailing them with questions regarding their comments in the cache logs that I was being just as much of a "jerk". I won't blame my redhair for it... intelligence and common sense should win out over my baser instincts.

------------------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

http://www.geogadgets.com

http://www.beautywithattitude.com

http://www.w6hy.org

January 20, 2002

After reading their cache reports and your's, I can't really see a problem. I think you must just be over-reacting. I also know I wouldn't want to be refered to as a "Geo-Jerk" on this forum. Sorry.

January 20, 2002

To me it just seems like the pair of cachers in question are just really really excited about the sport and get a little carried away. If I were them and I stumbled across this thread, it'd seriously make me wonder if I even wanted to bother playing anymore. I'd really recommend deleting the first post in this thread (thus killing the entire thread) before they see it, and then politely asking them by email to remove the pictures that give away the cache locations.

January 20, 2002

To me it just seems like the pair of cachers in question are just really really excited about the sport and get a little carried away. If I were them and I stumbled across this thread, it'd seriously make me wonder if I even wanted to bother playing anymore. I'd really recommend deleting the first post in this thread (thus killing the entire thread) before they see it, and then politely asking them by email to remove the pictures that give away the cache locations.

January 21, 2002

I wouldn't remove, alter, apologize or anything about this thread. Sometimes people just don't know when they are being obnoxious. Frankly, the threads here are archives of the sport in which we all partake. It includes the technical and whimsical, the frustrating and the emotional. If one can't sound off here, then there is really no other 'out'. Sometimes people need to get stuff off their chest, and I don't think Red was anything more than just venting a frustration.

This is a sport which like any other sport incorporates rules, competition, ethics, and sportsmanship. When the sportsmanship angle of the sport begins to suffer, the other components begin to fester until someday there'll be 200,000 ammo cans, tupperware containers and ziplock bags littering the world.

Maintain the integrity of the sport, and that will maintain the interest of the majority of those participating.

------------------

VentureForth out to the wild, wet forest...

January 21, 2002

Assuming that you are talking about YOUR caches, RedwoodRed, there is a simple solution: any log entry that you find offensive, just DELETE IT. And send the offending cacher a private message TELLING him that you did it and why. And inviting him to relog his find sans the offensive parts.

And if the bum posts another nasty entry, delete it, too. Without further comment.

Ranting and raving gets boring in a hurry, when no one can see or hear you.

------------------

Interested in Geocaching in the state of Georgia? Visit the Georgia Geocachers Association at http://www.ggaonline.org

January 21, 2002

ing that time I've had chances to talk to people from all over the country (6 years customer service answering phones). I've discovered that jerks come in all different flavors. I've talked to some particularily obnoxious people with east coast accents, but I'll not make the mistake of labeling all of the people on the east coast on the basis of the actions of a few prime time jerks. Perhaps you should try the same.

January 21, 2002

Occasionally I have had negative posts and unwanted pictures pop up on some of my cache pages. Some may disagree with my method, but IMO, that is exactly why Jeremy placed the "delete" button there. My tactic is to simply delete anything I don't want on my cache page. I have had "Geo-Jerks" log my caches, and I didn't like their log. I deleted it. I didn't like the degree to which a picture revealed MY cache, so I deleted that, too.

I placed the caches, I put them together, I hiked out and left it, and I maintain them. They belong to me, box, trinkets, and cache page, and I reserve the right to edit, delete, or archive for any reason or no reason whatsoever. If someone doesn't like it, then don't hunt my caches.

I should say that it has been months since have felt the need to do this, and it has been very rare that I have done it at all. Cache owners should not feel guilty for making their cache what they want it to be.

I placed a virtual cache a little while ago. It was the coords of a very nice Anasazi Indian ruin in SE Utah. Soon thereafter I archived it. I decided that while all the cachers I have MET have seemed ethical, decent people (to me) I knew that I could not assure that ALL cachers are, and in fact, I KNOW that not all cachers are good people. I knew that I would feel terrible if I somehow led one of these jerks to such an outstanding national treasure and it were vandalized, so I removed the information.

------------------

BunkerDave

N 40° 7.081, W 111° 38.851

January 21, 2002

I'm always afraid I'll come off as a "Geo-jerk". So, I follow these forum topics closely... My intentions are good, but sometimes I tease people, and they think I'm being mean...

Anyways, the Bay Area geo-cachers are some of the nicest bunch... and one of the things that really helped me appreciate each of their different personalities was attending a local geocaching picnic.

So, maybe if you ever get the chance, attend a get-together where you can meet these people face-to-face. Maybe it will give you more insight into their personalities than is possible through reading logs.

/Alienpuppy

January 21, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by bunkerdave:
I placed a virtual cache a little while ago. It was the coords of a very nice Anasazi Indian ruin in SE Utah. Soon thereafter I archived it. I decided that while all the cachers I have MET have seemed ethical, decent people (to me) I knew that I could not assure that ALL cachers are, and in fact, I KNOW that not all cachers are good people. I knew that I would feel terrible if I somehow led one of these jerks to such an outstanding national treasure and it were vandalized, so I removed the information.

For some reason I noticed when you posted that one. Now it will probably be awhile before I can cache hunt in Utah. But this one struck my interest. But unfortunately I understand your concerns and agree that it wasn't worth the risk to leave it active. Oh well.

[This message has been edited by ALacy (edited 21 January 2002).]

January 21, 2002

I think that typically the same ideology prevails with most who are familiar with this same area. I hiked on Saturday with a fellow who knows where hundreds of sites are in the area, and he has photos of many of these on his website. (www.geocities.com/goofalong)

What he does NOT have are GPS coordinates and maps and directions to the sites themselves. He did show me his maps, however, and I was astounded at the quantity of sites he has catalogued on his personal maps. He gives good directions on getting into the canyons, and tells where the trails are, and various other helps, but as far as finding the sites, you are on your own. There are some whom I would trust enought to give the coords for the sites that I have, but not many. The problem is that while you may trust the ones you tell, what about the ones THEY tell? You can see the problem. The BLM has taken it a step further, and have begun removing from maps all references to all but the most frequently visited ruins. These are not "bad" sites, but they are not even close to being the best. However, the really good sites typically require some pretty good hikes, except for the one I listed, which was easy to get to where you could see it, but getting to the ruin itself was another story.

Anyway, I did post a cache that gives directions to the general area. Perhaps you will come across someone down there and they will let you in on their "secrets." On the other hand, and I can attest to this personally, it is LOTS more fun to find them on your own.

------------------

BunkerDave

N 40° 7.081, W 111° 38.851

January 21, 2002

Don't worry Red! Just try not to step in the Bul*sh*t! If people don't like the caches, frankly, screw em! The cache natzis are on the prowl. Keep having fun. After all, I believe that is the point of this geocaching thing. Although some may forget?

January 22, 2002

ak has a tendancy to take my side because if I'm mad, he gets mad and so on, and I needed to tell someone not so connected to me emotionally. I was too upset at the time to email the people I was upset with. If I have made others *too* aware of their manner of posting, I apologize. I have never seen these people post to the forums (doesn't mean that they don't READ them), but if they start to, in this thread, I'll know that someone contacted them. I hope that doesn't happen, because I'm trying to think of a way to do so in a very civilized and congenial manner.

But I won't delete it. I won't change it. I would change the name if I could. But it isn't an option open to me. I won't ignore that these things happen, just because they happened to me/us and I feel like talking about it.

scooterj commented that they might read the thread and stop geocaching. Well, what if I got so disgusted with the antics of other cachers, didn't vent, and I quit? Or my whole family did? I tell everyone I know about this sport. I am constantly trying to promote it to those who I think would find it enjoyable. That doesn't make me right, but it makes me viable as a geocaching proponent.

I love geocaching. I know not all geocachers are alike. That is the fun part. But geocaching can be done in a dignified manner and still be fun. I thank everyone who responded, whether pro or con. I needed the devil's advocates. Keeps me level.

No, I'm not right, but I'm not quiting, and if this thread teaches anyone to be a better geocacher, or more considerate, then may be I'll feel better.

Thanks for allowing my venting.

------------------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

http://www.geogadgets.com

http://www.beautywithattitude.com

http://www.w6hy.org

January 22, 2002

"Don't even get me started!" (with a NYC accent, please)

All the good rants have already been laid down, but here's mine anyway...

I've found 45 caches so far, and I just hid my 21st yesterday. Most them are ammobox caches, and cost me $20-30 each to create. I've also got some letterbox hybrids that run around $10-15, depending on the rubberstamp. I've only got one virtual cache. I once had several virtual caches, but I got too many criticisms in the logs and by email. Greedy players complained about the lack of a cache box, or worse, implied that I was cheap, or lazy, or both. Imagine! And this coming from guys who haven't hid any caches at all, or maybe only two or three!

Okay, so I got over it. Now I don't take any criticism of my caches seriously unless:

1. they're polite (abslolutely required)

2. they're based in fact

3. they're not criticising me in a log

4. they're correcting GPS coordinates

5. they're a player I know & respect

6. they're trying to correct GPS coords

7. they've hid some really good caches!

There's NO excuse for being rude and inconsiderate over a silly GPS game. There's no way anyone who has spent time and money to create a geocache should have to read harsh criticisms or endure sarcasm, especially in a public log report on their own cache page.

I don't like censorship, but people who can't be polite and helpful don't deserve the benefit of your patience. DO give players the benefit of the doubt in their log reports, but delete the logs that you think were not written with the best intentions. The other players won't miss reading nasty logs. In fact, they'll be relieved to see that you deleted them in the interest of supporting good manners in this sport.

And...thick skin goes a long way. When some geojerk writes a picky log, just sit back and have a good laugh. Other players will read it, and laugh with you!

Anton

[This message has been edited by Anton (edited 22 January 2002).]

January 22, 2002

YES Anton! I couldn't agree more! Cheers to you!

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