Off-topic Forum Option

November 28, 2003

This thread is not being started to take away from Geocaching.com's Discussion Forum, but is meant to give GC.com members (and others) a place to speak freely about geocaching.

The thread named My Discussion Board tucked away in the Southeast Discussion Forum identifies a discussion board where Geocaching and other topics can be discussed openly without having your topics and comments closed, deleted or modified.

I've noticed several folks requesting such a forum, and thought I'd let you all know one already exists.

If other boards have also been created for this reason, please post a link to them in this thread.

Edited November 28, 2003 by Bartster

2.1k · November 28, 2003

I personally know of another one, but I won't mention it here....I'll let someone else do that for me....

Edited November 28, 2003 by woodsters

8.4k · November 28, 2003

You were all wondering what I was going to say here huh?

LOL! IBTL!

Edited November 28, 2003 by Snoogans

1.1k · November 28, 2003

There are no plans to have an off-topic forum.

The intent of Geocaching.com and these forums is to be a waypoint for people to get together and discuss topics related to the hobby of geocaching, and its sister sports like Benchmark hunting and Travel Bugs. The ultimate goal is to get you, the participant in these forums, outdoors.

8.4k · November 28, 2003

There are no plans to have an off-topic forum.

The intent of Geocaching.com and these forums is to be a waypoint for people to get together and discuss topics related to the hobby of geocaching, and its sister sports like Benchmark hunting and Travel Bugs. The ultimate goal is to get you, the participant in these forums, outdoors.

That is a rather narrow point of view. It disregards the friendships that could only form here. How many stories are there of people visiting other people that they have met in these forums. This sport is ever growing and evolving. Friendships formed online and continued in these forums do not fit in that statement. Please reconsider your position.

Joe Public isn't here. Geocachers are here. I come here to converse with "MY" people.

1.3k · November 28, 2003

While I agree that an off topic forum would be a nice addition welcomed by many, there are no plans to have one. At least we have some nice new fast forums to discuss our sport in. A couple of weeks ago there was a no topic forum. This one is infinitely better.

1.1k · November 28, 2003

That is a rather narrow point of view. It disregards the friendships that could only form here.

That is intentional.

Friendships start by discussing similar interests. Once you create your friends you can feel free to exchange email addresses, phone numbers, and build on those friendships offline.

In addition, regional forums are made to discuss regional interests. Get together in the real world and establish your friendship there.

I've made many friends through the forums, and it didn't come about during off-topic discussions about Iraq or the hot new toy this Christmas.

November 28, 2003

To quote the subtitle under heading "General":

If you have a topic that doesn't quite fit anywhere else, post it here.

21.9k · November 28, 2003

To quote the subtitle under heading "General":

If you have a topic that doesn't quite fit anywhere else, post it here.

To quote the forum guidelines at the top left corner of the page, this "is an open forum sponsored by Groundspeak Inc. for discussing all aspects of Geocaching, Benchmark hunting, GPS Usage and Groundspeak related GPS Gaming."

So, the General Forum is for posting topics about Geocaching, Benchmark hunting, GPS Usage and Groundspeak related GPS Gaming that do not fit the themes of the other specific forums.

November 28, 2003

To quote the subtitle under heading "General":

If you have a topic that doesn't quite fit anywhere else, post it here.

To quote the forum guidelines at the top left corner of the page, this "is an open forum sponsored by Groundspeak Inc. for discussing all aspects of Geocaching, Benchmark hunting, GPS Usage and Groundspeak related GPS Gaming."

So, the General Forum is for posting topics about Geocaching, Benchmark hunting, GPS Usage and Groundspeak related GPS Gaming that do not fit the themes of the other specific forums.

May I highlight it a bit more? Hope you don't mind. ;-)

"is an open forum sponsored by Groundspeak Inc. for discussing all aspects of Geocaching, Benchmark hunting, GPS Usage and Groundspeak related GPS Gaming."

1.4k · November 28, 2003

There are no plans to have an off-topic forum.

The intent of Geocaching.com and these forums is to be a waypoint for people to get together and discuss topics related to the hobby of geocaching, and its sister sports like Benchmark hunting and Travel Bugs. The ultimate goal is to get you, the participant in these forums, outdoors.

God forbid that those that pay for the server by donating money and buying shirts and stickers and such get what they want.

Don't make a bad business decission by not listening to those that put you where you are. I may not have been there from the start, but I and the other new people ARE the future of geocaching and this website.

2.1k · November 28, 2003

I had written a couple messages here but deleted them before posting. Since Chris and Cindy kind of hit on it a little, I have a question. It says the forums are sponsored by Groundspeak. Is that an actual correct comment? If no one paid for a premium membership or bought stuff in the store, would Groundspeak still be sponsoring it? I think those that support the site, both premium and non-premium members help support the site, therefore sponsoring it with their financial contributions.

5.2k · November 28, 2003

Well if they're going to listen to the paying members, then I would like to go on record that I do not want an off-topic forum. If you don't want to talk about something geocaching related, go somewhere else.

November 28, 2003

Well for the record then, I do want an off-topic area.

1.4k · November 28, 2003

Well if they're going to listen to the paying members, then I would like to go on record that I do not want an off-topic forum. If you don't want to talk about something geocaching related, go somewhere else.

I think the word I'm looking for is "Ditto"

1.4k · November 28, 2003

What is the deal with you folks? Do you not see that the "people" want to talk about stuff that may be a little off topic? It is human nature.

I would watch what you are doing or you will be back to driving a fork lift instead of running a web page because people will find an alternative.

I am part of several boards and they all accept a little of topic discussions because thats how life is. I have never seen such a communistic Dictatorship such as what is going on here.

Just because you took someone else's idea and are profiting from it doesn't mean someone else can't do it as well.

5.2k · November 28, 2003

Go somewhere else then.

Edited November 28, 2003 by CO Admin

1.4k · November 28, 2003

Well if they're going to listen to the paying members, then I would like to go on record that I do not want an off-topic forum. If you don't want to talk about something geocaching related, go somewhere else.

That is not geocaching related.

November 28, 2003

Go somewhere else then. Because a lot of people here are tired of the s*** you post.

Am I not entitled to my opinion just as you are yours?

I have reported your post as it is not in accordance with the guidelines.

1.3k · November 28, 2003

Understanding is a three edged sword. (J Michael Stazinski)

There is alway three side to a a discussion, one side, the other side, and the truth. And the truth of any conflic is written by the victor.

Well to this there will probably be no victor. On one side we have the posters that seem to be up in arms because they believe theirs posts are being unfairly treated by the mods. On the other side the mods believe they are doing what is expected of them.

This begins to come closer and closer to what some may see as censorship. Freedom of speech is given to all of us, but it has limits. Some of the posters need to realize when they are approaching the line at which they should not cross. As well the mods should also stop and think about what they are doing.

Both sides need to sit back and chill a litle before it gets way out of control and then nobody is going to be happy.

My submition for a solution for an off topic form is to create a group with only one thread allowed. Let the posters use it for a few days to decide on a location to have an off site area to discuss what they want. Then removed all the posts and add on post that tells them where they can find this location and lock the group so no more posts can be made.

Just an idea.

8.4k · November 28, 2003

There are no plans to have an off-topic forum.

The intent of Geocaching.com and these forums is to be a waypoint for people to get together and discuss topics related to the hobby of geocaching, and its sister sports like Benchmark hunting and Travel Bugs. The ultimate goal is to get you, the participant in these forums, outdoors.

God forbid that those that pay for the server by donating money and buying shirts and stickers and such get what they want.

Don't make a bad business decission by not listening to those that put you where you are. I may not have been there from the start, but I and the other new people ARE the future of geocaching and this website.

Ever heard of an independant focus group? What do you think one of those would say about how to solve the problems here?

To summerize the current attitude:

"Hi, thanks for visiting, buy some stuff if you want, become a paying member if you want, but take your friendships and humor elswhere.......the beatings will continue until morale improves."

Am I the only one besides C&C that realizes that attitude is bad for business? Business is about pleasing customers. I am not a disgruntled user. Things could be better though. BTW- I have spent well over $500 on Groundspeak merchandise and plan to renew my membership.

My gc.com approval rating: 93%.

1.1k · November 28, 2003

Thanks for making this topic an excellent example as to why there will not be an off-topic section of the forums.

Ancedotally, queries to local geocaching get-togethers illustrate that the forums have become so combatitive that veteran geocachers steer clear of the forums. Some dominating personalities have create a negative environment for communication. This is sad, and one reason why there hasn't been an off-topic forum in the past.

1.3k · November 28, 2003

Why can't people just accept that there is not going to be an off topic, or unmoderated forum? I'm glad the mods are there to stop people from becoming abusive. I think the forums are better for it. It seems like most of the threads that are getting heavily moderated are the ones wherein people are attacking the mods.

DUH

Informative and entertaining threads continue in other areas of the forums and peope benefit from the discussions. I would like to see an off topic forum, but if it's not to be, then there's no sense getting upset or ugly about it. It isn't going to happen here, so conversations about things unrelated to caching will have to go on elsewhere. There is no problem with freedom of speech, you have the freedom to speak about whatever you want.

For instance, I moonlight as a doorman in a bar. Often customers get drunk and begin to argue. I could care less if they beat the tar out of each other, as long as they don't do it in the bar. If people want to carry on vicious arguments, great. Have fun doing it elsewhere.

1.4k · November 28, 2003

Thanks for making this topic an excellent example as to why there will not be an off-topic section of the forums.

Ancedotally, queries to local geocaching get-togethers illustrate that the forums have become so combatitive that veteran geocachers steer clear of the forums. Some dominating personalities have create a negative environment for communication. This is sad, and one reason why there hasn't been an off-topic forum in the past.

Well it's the newcomers that will keep this thing going.

3.9k · November 28, 2003

I had written a couple messages here but deleted them before posting. Since Chris and Cindy kind of hit on it a little, I have a question. It says the forums are sponsored by Groundspeak. Is that an actual correct comment? If no one paid for a premium membership or bought stuff in the store, would Groundspeak still be sponsoring it? I think those that support the site, both premium and non-premium members help support the site, therefore sponsoring it with their financial contributions.

These fourms were up and running long before a membership was offered or before the first Geocaching item was offered for sale.

If you want to base what paying members want...then I have a right to voice my opinion. I don't mind a few off topic conversations. what I do mind is a handful of individuals trying to take over the fourms. Before these people showed up, we could pretty much discuss what we wanted. If you want to complain, then complain to them for making the rest of us suffer.

El Diablo

November 28, 2003

Well it's the newcomers that will keep this thing going.

Or not going as the case may be.

2.3k · November 28, 2003

Maybe if there was an off topic area all the muckrakers will go there and leave the normal areas alone. Just a thought, and not directed at anyone in particular.

November 28, 2003

If you want to base what paying members want...then I have a right to voice my opinion. I don't mind a few off topic conversations. what I do mind is a handful of individuals trying to take over the fourms. Before these people showed up, we could pretty much discuss what we wanted. If you want to complain, then complain to them for making the rest of us suffer.

El Diablo

Paying member, also. Why can't we just "warn" them off the boards. TPTB know who they are, and have the power to cut them off if enough "reports" are turned in. Then maybe a little more tolerance will be shown...

Edit: To stay true to the original topic, here is an "other stuff" board on a local geocaching forum board.

Edited November 28, 2003 by ShaneN4Girls

November 28, 2003

Seems to me that if there were an off topic area then it would contain 'off topic' posts. It would also be a place where the mods (who are able to move stuff) could move 'off topic' items from other areas. Then, those who don't want to read the off topic threads could simply stay out of the area. Would that not suit all parties?

3.5k · November 28, 2003

I hate to think of myself as an old timer, but I guess I've been here for about 2 years, that might make me one.

This old timer remembers back when most every topic was ON topic and that was without anyone policing us.

This old timer also remembers when a newbie wrote to thank all of us for the great way they were treated. It seems they had some bad experiences on other forums and found this one very refreshing (man, I wish I could find that post).

I also remember when the idea of an off topic forum was brought up once...and again...and again...in the beginning it seemed like we didn't need one anyway.

And I remember when a long established REALLY OLD TIMER wrote to tell us "Oh yes, I avoid the forums."

I wish I could put my finger on when it all changed. No particular event or person comes to mind. Maybe it's just Newton's Second Law at work.

Rememberin' the old times,

Bret

21.9k · November 28, 2003

Bug and Snake, thanks for the suggestion, but, it would not suit me! I far prefer it if people would refrain in the first place from posting off-topic threads, and off-topic replies to existing threads. I'm a volunteer, I'm not paid to moderate the forums. I had planned to spend my Thanksgiving holiday learning how to use advanced features in Mapsource, charting out some cache routes, and hiding a new multicache. Instead, I've been stuck in front of the computer all day. I haven't even had dinner yet. I have no interest in playing traffic cop to move off-topic posts to a designated area.

Folks, there is plenty of room for jokes and give-and-take within the topics that ARE on topic. There are thousands of threads like that. I encourage everyone to continue enjoying the forums in that manner. It is a very small group of community members that has triggered this discussion.

3.9k · November 28, 2003

Maybe if there was an off topic area all the muckrakers will go there and leave the normal areas alone. Just a thought, and not directed at anyone in particular.

That's a nice thought. However their goal is to be able to discuss what they want, where they want. They believe they own these fourms. What they want to forget is that these fourms a provided by a private owner with no obligations to anyone.

This is not a publicaly held corperation with a board of directors. This website is owned by either one or a very few people that have provided us a place to discuss Geocaching. Whether you are a paying member or not, does not give you a right to direct tese fourms. There is nothing in the paying membership statement that even suggest you have that right, or any other right.

There are those who have suggested that people may move on to an alternate sight. GO!! Go Now!! Let the rest of us enjoy what we have been enjoying for years before they came along.

El Diablo

1.3k · November 28, 2003

If posters are doing it to get a rise out of people, it has worked. Why not try ignoring them. It may take a few days, but if nobody reacts they just migh get bored and go some where else. Get the mods to back off a bit and let thing runs its coarse. What is happening right now doen't seem to be working. New threads are being created as the old ones are being locked out.

November 28, 2003

This old timer also remembers when a newbie wrote to thank all of us for the great way they were treated. It seems they had some bad experiences on other forums and found this one very refreshing (man, I wish I could find that post).

snip...

I wish I could put my finger on when it all changed. No particular event or person comes to mind. Maybe it's just Newton's Second Law at work.

I was one of those thankful newbies 11 months ago. I had to leave the game/sport for a while from May till October, and when I came back, things had changed. Wish they would go back to the way they were before...

BTW, I'm still thankful for all of the more experienced cachers that have helped out along the way, and to the volunteers for the thankless time they spend at it. I understand thankless volunteering...

1.1k · November 28, 2003

Why not try ignoring them. It may take a few days, but if nobody reacts they just migh get bored and go some where else.

Unfortunately what is happening behind the scenes is there are several individuals who respond and "bump" the topics, giving them an air of popularity. It baits a post and another one pops in and jabs again. It's actually rather calculating. So even topics that really don't have much energy to them are consitantly brought up to the top of the page. Like this one.

Sometimes you can refresh the page every 15 minutes or so and watch how a pointless topic drops down and pops back up. Like volleyball.

True, if folks were on the up-and-up, ignoring a topic will make it go away. But these ankle biters like to create controversy where there is none.

Honestly, I have no idea how they spare the time. Do their employers know?

November 28, 2003

"...Enthalpy in the Groundspeak Forums"

Isn't that to do with, well.....

Definition

When the pressure of the vapour of an element in equilibrium with the liquid is 1 atmosphere, the liquid element boils. Complete conversion into vapour, requires the absorption of the the enthalpy of vaporization, %Delta;Hvap.

Keep it bubblin'! Yeah.....

November 28, 2003

Wow, this is kinda sad. Jeremy and the mods seem to be making every effort to keep this a safe open area to facilitate communication about the sport that brings us all together. What is the response? Ridicule, objection, ill will and threats. Frankly those people are the exact reason there never should be an off topic board IMHO.

I guess I just don't see why you don't go to yahoo or some other chat site and talk all you want. Last time I checked, you can even create your own chat room/message board. Talk about anything you want there. Here, talk geocaching.

If I want to take my family to a park, I expect to abide by the parks rules. I expect everyone else to as well. If they don't, someone asks them to leave. Do they have a right to break the rules? Hardly.

If you don't like this, take your business elsewhere. THAT is your right.

2.5k · November 28, 2003

Am I the only one besides C&C that realizes that attitude is bad for business? Business is about pleasing customers. I am not a disgruntled user. Things could be better though. BTW- I have spent well over $500 on Groundspeak merchandise and plan to renew my membership.

Snoogans, I'm using your quote as an example and not necessarily directing the following at you or any person in particular, so don't take this as an attack against you. It's kind of a general statement.

Having had some relationships with business owners gives me a better understanding for the term "mind your own business". Business owners are funny that way, they don't want any one telling them how to run their business, especially when they did not solicit an opinion.

While you may be correct in your opinion that what the business owner is doing is bad for business, the business owner may have a different opinion.

If what the business owner is doing is truly bad for business, this is something that they will learn, and adjust to based on business conditions. What you realize is bad for business may not be what the business owner realizes. A business owner will follow a business plan and adjust as business conditions require him to do so. Business conditions will dictate how to proceed more than unsolicited opinions.

Now, if you really want to stick your nose into another person's business and have them change, then the way to do this is by affecting their business. You might do this by taking your business elsewhere, and taking as many customers as you can with you.

As an example, since you plan to renew your membership, and business owners don't like to be told how to conduct their business, don't count on changing things with your opinion alone. While it is good to express your opinion on how a business should be run, don't expect to change the business model of anybody elses business with unsolicited opinions. This would probably not apply if the business owner actually asked for your opinion.

November 28, 2003

Why is there only one Antitrust Division?

3k · November 28, 2003

Seems to me that if there were an off topic area then it would contain 'off topic' posts. It would also be a place where the mods (who are able to move stuff) could move 'off topic' items from other areas. Then, those who don't want to read the off topic threads could simply stay out of the area. Would that not suit all parties?

The truth of the matter is that if there were an OT forum then all the BS that you see here would go there and we would be doing the same thing in a different forum. Whats the point?

Oh wait, "if there were"? Heh, there isn't, there is not going to be, what more needs to be said?

1.1k · November 28, 2003

"Hi, thanks for visiting, buy some stuff if you want, become a paying member if you want, but take your friendships and humor elswhere.......the beatings will continue until morale improves."

The above would be an unfair statement.

How about, "Hey. Try out Geocaching. Here's some info on the activity, do a search and look around. Found a cache and want to log it? Here's a free account. Have any questions? Come to the forums and ask other geocachers. It's all free. Send an email to contact@geocaching.com if you have questions. We'll try to help. Hey, if you like the game and want to help support the site, pay less than a latte per month and you'll get over 10 megs a day in caches you can import in your GPS unit and use our new maps. We also have some cool gear you can check out."

"Oh, when you're in the forums, we don't have a section to discuss the latest Jerry Springer. Sorry. Unlike most sites we'd rather see you get outdoors more."

November 28, 2003

Seems to me that if there were an off topic area then it would contain 'off topic' posts. It would also be a place where the mods (who are able to move stuff) could move 'off topic' items from other areas. Then, those who don't want to read the off topic threads could simply stay out of the area. Would that not suit all parties?

The truth of the matter is that if there were an OT forum then all the BS that you see here would go there and we would be doing the same thing in a different forum. Whats the point?

Oh wait, "if there were"? Heh, there isn't, there is not going to be, what more needs to be said?

The point? Forum users would KNOW that they were entering the 'off topic' area and could chose not to do so if they wished.

--------------------------------

I, further to the above, think that most of the posts that are seen, by many, to be objectionable are about the fact that there is not such an area. It is the sole prerogative of the owners/operators of the site to set the policy within it. But, while that policy includes the hosting of a relatively public forum, they must also expect that there will be posts that they will not like and/or agree with.

--------------------------------

A minor point that I would like to make, in addition, is that some of the posters have ben castigated for 'name calling'... Is it OK to refer to those as 'ankle biters'?

I think that phrase originated with CB radio users and means 'children'... Is this not in the same category?

November 28, 2003

Jeremy, might I suggest you have no need to respond further. Don't justify the inaccuracies and unfair comments with coherent responses. There are rules to this site. They work. If there is a problem, someone has all the right in the world to contact you directly and request a change. You in turn have every right to handle that request in any way you choose. Don't be drawn into a debate here that you cannot win. Remember, you're dealing with people that don't understand your motives in the first place.

Sincerely, thank you and all the moderators for what you have done, and continue to do for geocaching in general, and my wife and I in particular.

CacheCreatures

November 28, 2003

Sluuuuuurrrrrrrp.

November 28, 2003

Edit: To stay true to the original topic, here is an "other stuff" board on a local geocaching forum board.

Thanks Shane for the link, and trying to stay closest to topic.

1.1k · November 28, 2003

I, further to the above, think that most of the posts that are seen, by many, to be objectionable are about the fact that there is not such an area.

A fair observation for someone who wouldn't have to moderate such a forum.

But, while that policy includes the hosting of a relatively public forum, they must also expect that there will be posts that they will not like and/or agree with.

Historically speaking, you would be hard pressed to point out where we don't accept criticism of Groundspeak in these forums.

Is it OK to refer to those as 'ankle biters'?
I think that phrase originated with CB radio users and means 'children'... Is this not in the same category?

Yes. Ankle biters can double definition as children, though a more apt term would be "muckraker" or "yellow journalist". This would be an accurate statement. Those who criticise are not in the category of "ankle biter," nor would they be called a "troller." The "ankle biter" statement is for those who use innuendo or sniping to derail topics to suit them to their own agenda. Ankle biter is a good term since it illustrates how the normal pace of a forum can be interrupted by some child nibbling at the post's feet.

1.1k · November 28, 2003

Sluuuuuurrrrrrrp.

Thanks, for an apt example. It can also reference posts like this one that have no intellectual or useful addition to a topic.

This example is how RobertM calls CacheCreatures a suckup without actually saying so. Not only does it diminish the attempt at continued discussion, but can be claimed as "something else" by RobertM. It's pretty childish for an adult. It's also something we haven't had to deal with except recently.

November 28, 2003

I, further to the above, think that most of the posts that are seen, by many, to be objectionable are about the fact that there is not such an area.

A fair observation for someone who wouldn't have to moderate such a forum.

But, while that policy includes the hosting of a relatively public forum, they must also expect that there will be posts that they will not like and/or agree with.

Historically speaking, you would be hard pressed to point out where we don't accept criticism of Groundspeak in these forums.

Is it OK to refer to those as 'ankle biters'?
I think that phrase originated with CB radio users and means 'children'... Is this not in the same category?

Yes. Ankle biters can double definition as children, though a more apt term would be "muckraker" or "yellow journalist". This would be an accurate statement. Those who criticize are not in the category of "ankle biter," nor would they be called a "troller." The "ankle biter" statement is for those who use innuendo or sniping to derail topics to suit them to their own agenda. Ankle biter is a good term since it illustrates how the normal pace of a forum can be interrupted by some child nibbling at the post's feet.

point 1: I am a moderator on another forum so I well understand the problems. I also know that we are not seeing every post.

point 2: I am not suggesting that criticism is not accepted - I didn't mean to give that impression. Simply pointing out that it will happen.

point 3: Hmmmmmmm..... OK

edited for spelling..... (sigh)

Edited November 28, 2003 by bug&snake

3k · November 28, 2003

The children references are pretty funny to me in a odd sort of way.

I used to spend a LOT of time in gaming forums and a lot of what is seen here was common place over there. The difference is that most of the people on those forums were children or kids, thats not the case here.

This fact scares me.

November 28, 2003

Okay folks, I've created enough OFF TOPIC discussion for one evening. Frankly, when I created this thread, my intentions were to direct people to other places where they can talk geocaching, without having their posts edited and modified and closed. You're not going to believe this, but I created this thread shortly after I got online today, BEFORE I read that there had been much controversy in the discussion forums. And I think I made a mistake by calling this thread "off topic forum option." I should have named it "Alternate Places to discuss Geocaching." I'm sorry if my thread has elevated anyone's blood pressure today. I can see both sides of this argument.

I am a paying member, and if I really had what I wanted, I would have some more folks get into geocaching in my community and hide some more caches for me to go find. I've found all the local ones and have to drive some distance now to find any.

Regardless, I'm choosing to close this thread. No moderators or admin folks have contacted me about this. This is my own decision. Yes, I'm moderating my own thread.

I hope everyone has a wonderful rest of the Thanksgiving weekend, and I hope everyone is truly thankful for that which has been provided to them. I know I sure am.

Keep on 'caching folks!

Off-topic Forum Option

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