Leatherman Tools Are Now Banned

38.2k · December 16, 2003

I see that in the new guidelines, multi-tools are banned from geocaches. I think P-38 can openers should be banned next. What would happen if some prison road crew finds a cache with a P-38 and uses it on a guard? Or worse, what if some kid playing in a park finds one in a cache and uses it to open a can of rancid beans and gets salmonella poisoning?

Anybody have anything else to add to the list? I really hate to see these horrible items placed in caches where they can kill and maim. Nerf balls are also a problem. How many kids will choke to death on them before geocachers get the picture that they are DANGEROUS?

9.4k · December 16, 2003

Leatherman tools have been banned for quite some time. You should take a break from caching and read stuff on the site more often

9.1k · December 16, 2003

Draw a map, Brian, and some local park manager is sure to follow it.

1.8k · December 16, 2003

As I said in another thread, I think hand grenades (or as they say in Kansas 'gernades') should also be banned.

38.2k · December 16, 2003

Leatherman tools have been banned for quite some time. You should take a break from caching and read stuff on the site more often

I read the guidelines in the beginning and thought that the no alcohol, food, firearms, or drugs rule was pretty understandable and went by that. I never realized that what was allowable in caches would be flux, so I haven't been checking the guidelines every few months.

Draw a map, Brian, and some local park manager is sure to follow it.

And heaven forbid they find a pair of pliers or nail clippers.

Edited December 16, 2003 by briansnat

2.3k · December 16, 2003

Leatherman tools have been banned for quite some time. You should take a break from caching and read stuff on the site more often

I read the guidelines in the beginning and thought that the no alcohol, food, firearms, or drugs rule was pretty understandable and went by that. I never realized that what was allowable in caches would be flux, so I haven't been checking the guidelines every few months.

Draw a map, Brian, and some local park manager is sure to follow it.

And heaven forbid they find a pair of pliars or nail clippers.

The release of the new version of the guidelines was announced. You should give them a read. Several nice clarifications

December 16, 2003

I have a cache in park where it seems alot of users practise there golf swing.

I want them to ban used golf balls in caches, it seems I get them for trades there often

2.1k · December 16, 2003

If you leave a leatherman, Brian, let me know. We'll take it and won't tell on ya.

5.9k · December 16, 2003

It's for legal reasons, to protect groundbleat. Put whatever you want in the cache.

2.5k · December 16, 2003

And heaven forbid they find a pair of pliers or nail clippers.

First of the year and 3rd quarter respectively.

3.5k · December 16, 2003

What's wrong with a P-38?

Bret

3.8k · December 16, 2003

...Put whatever you want in the cache...

Ditto. But please try to use good judgement.

5.9k · December 16, 2003

...Put whatever you want in the cache...

Ditto. But please try to use good judgement.

Goes without saying.

December 16, 2003

Log Books - Paper Cuts

Pencils - Stab Wounds

McToys - Lethal if fallen on

Tupperware - Pinched fingers

Geocoins - Choking hazard

Travel Bug Tags - could be sharpened and used to slash others

Marshmallow guns - You'll shoot your eye out!!

Screw Drivers - Stab wounds

This is crazy. What will happen to tool caches...? I picked up a drill bit from a cache last week...glad I got that lethal weapon out of circulation. Better not list any items in a cache, taken or left. Just; took something, left something else. Anymore might get the cache archived.

1.3k · December 16, 2003

The release of the new version of the guidelines was announced. You should give them a read. Several nice clarifications

This is slightly off topic... but here it goes...

It was? When and where? I normally read the forums at least every other day but I don't recall seeing it. The majority of the geocachers I've met don't follow the forums on a regular basis. More than a few don't read them ever.

I don't recall seeing an anouncement on the main page of the website or in the weekly "new geocaches in your area" email.

Groundspeak/Geocaching.com really could do a BETTER job on announcing changes to the website and rules.

I'd say there is, at the VERY least, a sizeable number of geocachers who do not read any forums (including the Anouncements board).

An email to all users who get the new cache announcements would be a major improvement. It's also not very difficult to add announcements to the main page - highlighted when something comes in. It could have a link pointing to the Announcment forums... or something.

If this was included in an email - Ignore this (I'll pull the foot outta my mouth, clean my monitor and put in a new pair of disposable contacts....)

southdeltan

December 16, 2003

Chainsaw cache anyone?

3.1k · December 16, 2003

Please send me a list of all geocaches with leatherman tools in them. I will gladly trek about and remove them from the caches. All I require is gas money

December 16, 2003

If this was included in an email - Ignore this (I'll pull the foot outta my mouth, clean my monitor and put in a new pair of disposable contacts....)

southdeltan

How does that foot taste, anyway?

2.3k · December 16, 2003

The release of the new version of the guidelines was announced. You should give them a read. Several nice clarifications

This is slightly off topic... but here it goes...

It was? When and where? I normally read the forums at least every other day but I don't recall seeing it. The majority of the geocachers I've met don't follow the forums on a regular basis. More than a few don't read them ever.

I don't recall seeing an anouncement on the main page of the website or in the weekly "new geocaches in your area" email.

Groundspeak/Geocaching.com really could do a BETTER job on announcing changes to the website and rules.

I'd say there is, at the VERY least, a sizeable number of geocachers who do not read any forums (including the Anouncements board).

An email to all users who get the new cache announcements would be a major improvement. It's also not very difficult to add announcements to the main page - highlighted when something comes in. It could have a link pointing to the Announcment forums... or something.

If this was included in an email - Ignore this (I'll pull the foot outta my mouth, clean my monitor and put in a new pair of disposable contacts....)

southdeltan

While you may not recall seing it the announcement was made in the weekly e-mail that goes out. It was also announced in the forums at the same time.

So Groundspeak must have done a good job becasue they already did what you suggested.

Good Job Groundspeak!!!

1.3k · December 16, 2003

What week did that email go out?

There have been a couple of weeks that there were no new caches out so I didn't even look at them

southdeltan

2.3k · December 16, 2003

What week did that email go out?

There have been a couple of weeks that there were no new caches out so I didn't even look at them

southdeltan

If I remember correctly week of 11/05

you might look one week either way

3.9k · December 16, 2003

And heaven forbid they find a pair of pliers or nail clippers.

Nail clippers! Dear God Brian, do you know the damage a nail clipper can do. Someone could give you a... a MANICURE!

1.3k · December 16, 2003

If I remember correctly week of 11/05

you might look one week either way

Strange - I have 10/30/03 and then 11/26/03. It looks like I'm missing 3 of those emails (they should be in my trash bin, but those are missing).

Oh well - wouldn't hurt to put it on the main page too

Luckily I was wearing a brand new pair of hiking boots my wife bought me - fresh outta the box - nice and clean. Nothing like the taste of new boots.....

southdeltan

2.3k · December 16, 2003

And heaven forbid they find a pair of pliers or nail clippers.

Nail clippers! Dear God Brian, do you know the damage a nail clipper can do. Someone could give you a... a MANICURE!

Someone could hijack your geocache with them.....

December 16, 2003

I see that in the new guidelines, multi-tools are banned from geocaches.

You gotta be kidding! Yeah, what next?

As cache owners I feel we can put what we like in caches, even make Adult oriented type caches if we want. If the cache description clearly states what's what with the cache then what's the problem.

The Geocaching.com website is ONLY a cache listing site. Geocaching.com as a listing site I don't believe should be making the rules of what I can place in my cache. But maybe that's THEIR rules for getting the cache listed on THEIR site. But I don't agree with it.

Next we'll have them telling us we may only use blunt pencils because pens and sharp pencils could be considered a danger, blah blah.

I think it all comes down to Geocaching.com trying to get away from the liability issues. Some weird things seem to happen in North America! Spill coffee, will sue. ;-)

December 16, 2003

I would consider an adult oriented theme a "CITO" cache box and get my plastic bag out!!

2.6k · December 16, 2003

Subida ascendente y rebelión!

2.3k · December 16, 2003

About time!!!!!!!

3.9k · December 16, 2003

I see that in the new guidelines, multi-tools are banned from geocaches.

You gotta be kidding! Yeah, what next?

As cache owners I feel we can put what we like in caches, even make Adult oriented type caches if we want. If the cache description clearly states what's what with the cache then what's the problem.

The Geocaching.com website is ONLY a cache listing site. Geocaching.com as a listing site I don't believe should be making the rules of what I can place in my cache. But maybe that's THEIR rules for getting the cache listed on THEIR site. But I don't agree with it.

Next we'll have them telling us we may only use blunt pencils because pens and sharp pencils could be considered a danger, blah blah.

I think it all comes down to Geocaching.com trying to get away from the liability issues. Some weird things seem to happen in North America! Spill coffee, will sue. ;-)

Is it conceivable that a 13 year old kid will go geocaching with a couple of friends? And if so should that kid get his hands on a knife? Anyway who the heck cares? It doesn't effect me one way or the other whether there's a leatherman or a swiss army knife in a cache. I actually had a cache not approved because I had a swiss army knife in it. Big deal, I went and removed and all where happy. It is about the liability and why shouldn't Groundspeak be worried about that? It's also about the PR. If a chemically imbalanced 15 year old kid gets his hand on a leatherman and uses it to hack somebody up it won't be the best press for geocaching. I know that's a extreme 'what if' but why even take the chance.

Edited December 16, 2003 by JMBella

December 16, 2003

It's amazing to see some folks sense of righteousness get in the way of common sense. It's unfortunate that multi-tools with blades are not allowed but it is understandable. Liability may be an underlying reason for the guideline, but as we continue to work toward getting geocaching accepted by more land managers, let's look at how they would probably view items in caches such as beer, blades and boobs.

3.9k · December 16, 2003

let's look at how they would probably view items in caches such as beer, blades and boobs.

Woh! Hey wait! Are you telling me that BOOBS are now banned too!

9.4k · December 16, 2003

...items in caches such as beer, blades and boobs.

I have never found boobs in a cache. Usually, they're sitting on their tailgate back in the parking lot drinking beer.

EDIT: spelling

Edited December 16, 2003 by Team GPSaxophone

December 16, 2003

I think it all comes down to Geocaching.com trying to get away from the liability issues. Some weird things seem to happen in North America! Spill coffee, will sue. ;-)

If a chemically imbalanced 15 year old kid gets his hand on a leatherman and uses it to hack somebody up it won't be the best press for geocaching. I know that's a extreme 'what if' but why even take the chance.

What if a news reporter goes with a geocacher as part of a story and finds handcuffs a gag , pornography and a knife.

3.9k · December 16, 2003

What if a news reporter goes with a geocacher as part of a story and finds handcuffs a gag , pornography and a knife.

Exactly! That's why we can't put knives in caches. BTW, where the hell do YOU cache?

Edited December 16, 2003 by JMBella

December 16, 2003

It's amazing to see some folks sense of righteousness get in the way of common sense. It's unfortunate that multi-tools with blades are not allowed but it is understandable. Liability may be an underlying reason for the guideline, but as we continue to work toward getting geocaching accepted by more land managers, let's look at how they would probably view items in caches such as beer, blades and boobs.

Navdog hit the nail on the head. Several areas have had total bans on geocaching put in place by land managers or law enforcement who found knives in caches. Some reasons heard are that many areas use prisoners to clean parks, and they are afraid the cleanup crew will find a cache with a knife in it. Another one mentioned is the fact that many parks have rules that prohibit weapons in the park. Right or wrong, they consider a pen knife or multitool in the same class as a sword, hunting knife, or handgun when they define "weapon".

December 16, 2003

What if a news reporter goes with a geocacher as part of a story and finds handcuffs a gag , pornography and a knife.

Then, if the cacher wants to keep things KEWL, the next to open the box will find handcuffs, a gag , pornography, a knife and a reporter!

Edited December 16, 2003 by bug&snake

3.9k · December 16, 2003

It's amazing to see some folks sense of righteousness get in the way of common sense. It's unfortunate that multi-tools with blades are not allowed but it is understandable. Liability may be an underlying reason for the guideline, but as we continue to work toward getting geocaching accepted by more land managers, let's look at how they would probably view items in caches such as beer, blades and boobs.

Navdog hit the nail on the head. Several areas have had total bans on geocaching put in place by land managers or law enforcement who found knives in caches. Some reasons heard are that many areas use prisoners to clean parks, and they are afraid the cleanup crew will find a cache with a knife in it. Another one mentioned is the fact that many parks have rules that prohibit weapons in the park. Right or wrong, they consider a pen knife or multitool in the same class as a sword, hunting knife, or handgun when they define "weapon".

So there ya have it. Let's not find a way to turn this into a Groundspeak sucks-they're too heavy hand-I won't let them tell me how to cache topic. There rules are the reason I got a cache approved by the NPS. Yes I did. I was able to show them that the RULES say you can't bury caches, caches shouldn't have: Explosives, fireworks, ammo, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material...ect.

3.9k · December 16, 2003

What if a news reporter goes with a geocacher as part of a story and finds handcuffs a gag , pornography and a knife.

Then, if the cacher wants to keep things KEWL, the next to open the box will find handcuffs, a gag , pornography, a knife and a reporter!

Yea, but then you would have to bury the reporter and thats not allowed by Groundspeak either.

(remember the chemically imbalanced 15 year old i was talking about. Yea, that was me)

December 16, 2003

What if a news reporter goes with a geocacher as part of a story and finds handcuffs a gag , pornography and a knife.

Then, if the cacher wants to keep things KEWL, the next to open the box will find handcuffs, a gag , pornography, a knife and a reporter!

well I guess the next guy would have to do a "CIBO" so that our image will be a good one.

December 16, 2003

I'll just point out one site in NJ for Briansnat, just to make my point. There are plenty of caches currently in this park.

Park Regulations for Palisades State Park

Prohibited Articles

Possession or use of drugs, alcohol, fireworks, explosives, firearms, bows and arrows, axes, chain saws, other weapons or cutting tools, and metal detectors are prohibited.

Most other parks have similar rules on the books.

24.7k · December 16, 2003

Simplified rules.

1) Items that children prohibited to minors are prohibited from a cache.

2) Items prohibited to prisoners can not be placed in a cache.

3) Follow the local landmanger rules.

That probably covers it. Rather than have one size fits all rules it allows each locality to have it's own rules.

Geocaching.com can't police cache contents. Cache owners can't police contents. Cachers can and should. Landmanagers who take the time to ban things should also be willing to check caches.

Stick this into the caching ethics biz card. "A cacher will remove inappropriate cache items" Most of us do anyway.

2.7k · December 16, 2003

We better get some more padded tupperware containers.

Someday in the near future a former cacher who had a multi purpose tool (leatherman) in his possesion was arrested for carrying this dangerous implement without a permit from the Emerald City board of Control.

And after being arrested and convicted and sent to clean up some park. While he was doing his duty he found an ammo can.

What did he do with the ammo can, well he hit the guard over the head with a big 50 cal ammo can.

He took off and hasn't been found yet, he's a locationless cacher!

Edited December 16, 2003 by Tahosa and Sons

1.1k · December 16, 2003

WARNING!!! the following post may make you angry....Gosh, atleast I hope it ruffles someones feathers....

I don't think knives NEED to be in caches. Not a big deal, but it's simple enough. HOWEVER, I get this funny feeling whenever someone says..."Parent's aren't responsible for their children, we should make some free will restricting rule that allows parents to be less involved in their kids."

If you've got a kid old enough to geocache alone and the money to give them a GPS: If you haven't taught them what is appropriate to pick up in the woods or leave alone then it is YOUR fault. It may take a village to raise a child but it only takes one self involved nit wit of a parent to screw that child up.

Stepping down from soap box.

5.9k · December 16, 2003

WARNING!!! the following post may make you angry....Gosh, atleast I hope it ruffles someones feathers....

I don't think knives NEED to be in caches. Not a big deal, but it's simple enough. HOWEVER, I get this funny feeling whenever someone says..."Parent's aren't responsible for their children, we should make some free will restricting rule that allows parents to be less involved in their kids."

If you've got a kid old enough to geocache alone and the money to give them a GPS: If you haven't taught them what is appropriate to pick up in the woods or leave alone then it is YOUR fault. It may take a village to raise a child but it only takes one self involved nit wit of a parent to screw that child up.

Stepping down from soap box.

Knives are off topic.

This thread is about leathermans.

1.3k · December 16, 2003

Here's what I don't get about the "it may be used on a prison guard" argument - don't those road crew guys have Remington 12 gauge magnum shotguns?

Tell you what. You take the leatherman I'll take the shotgun with buckshot.

2.6k · December 16, 2003

Yeah. This thread is about leathermans tool.

December 16, 2003

Yeah. This thread is about leathermans tool.

some real good replies came to mind but--- this is a clean site and I'll just have to mod myself, and not take this further off topic.

3.9k · December 16, 2003

WARNING!!! the following post may make you angry....Gosh, at least I hope it ruffles someones feathers....

I don't think knives NEED to be in caches. Not a big deal, but it's simple enough. HOWEVER, I get this funny feeling whenever someone says..."Parent's aren't responsible for their children, we should make some free will restricting rule that allows parents to be less involved in their kids."

If you've got a kid old enough to geocache alone and the money to give them a GPS: If you haven't taught them what is appropriate to pick up in the woods or leave alone then it is YOUR fault. It may take a village to raise a child but it only takes one self involved nit wit of a parent to screw that child up.

Stepping down from soap box.

That's a really good point. And you're right the parents should absolutely be responsible for their children. Nothing bothers me more than to see a child being raised by Sponge Bob. That being said, unfortunately there are a whole crap load of fudged up parents in the world which require that rules are in place to prevent the children of those parents from getting their hands on things they shouldn't.

Edited December 16, 2003 by JMBella

2.6k · December 16, 2003

don't those road crew guys have Remington 12 gauge magnum shotguns?

No.

Inmates on park clean up crews are minimum custody. There are no weapons involved in there supervision.

You are confusing them with chain gangs. Inmates chained up would be in-practical for a cleaning a park.

24.7k · December 16, 2003

Leatherman makes a good point. The inmates I work with are minim security. If they had the inclination they have access to tools and vehicles that could do as much damage as a tank on a rampage. Besides living in Idaho all they have to do is break a window in a vehicle to grab the gun that's in the window or glovebox.

They are in minimun security because they don't have these inclinations.

Leatherman Tools Are Now Banned

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