Russia Hates Geocaching

December 26, 2003

I was looking @ taking a trip to Moscow over New Years (until I found out how expensive the visas were) and maybe do a few caches. 2 problems, there are no caches in Russia, the reason being is because if you have a GPSr, you will be arrested. I checked the US travel advisory for Russia and GPSr's are completely banned and if you have one they will arrest you and confiscate it.

We need the geocahing UN to do something about this.

December 26, 2003

I just did a search on Russia and I saw 12 caches there. OK it is not alot but ...

I can't help you with the cost of the visa.

2.3k · December 26, 2003

I was looking @ taking a trip to Moscow over New Years (until I found out how expensive the visas were) and maybe do a few caches. 2 problems, there are no caches in Russia, the reason being is because if you have a GPSr, you will be arrested. I checked the US travel advisory for Russia and GPSr's are completely banned and if you have one they will arrest you and confiscate it.

We need the geocahing UN to do something about this.

Is there a reason listed as to WHY GPSr's are illegal there?

It is their country and their rules, so I guess why doesn't really matter.

I would certainly not risk it, wouldn't want to be stuck in a gulag somewhere cold and dark! :mad:

4.8k · December 26, 2003

Could always get one of those wristwatch GPSr thingy's and probably get it in that way. Then again, there is that "risk" factor of getting caught and ending up in a gulag. Hmmmm, maybe not.

December 26, 2003

I'd be afriad to just step foot in Russia just because of the Russian Mob let alone take a banned product there and have to deal with the government if you get caught. Knowone in their right mind would risk years in a rat infested, cold, damp prison for a stupid geocache. Does Russia have a big tourist industry anyway? Just wondering. HAve fun if you go.

December 26, 2003

We had a Russian foreign exchange student that returned to Russia last year who was majoring in geography. I wanted to send her a GPS for Christmas, so I checked with the Russian consulate, and was told it would be fine. I sent it VERY early because of previous experience with Russian mal service. It went through customs without a hitch. In fact I often get an email that says something like....Hi I am at Longitude X and Lattitude Y, look on the internet and see if you can find the tourist site that I visited today. When we go visit her next year, I plan on taking a GPS and finding a cache.

2.1k · December 26, 2003

You could always do it WaldenRun style.....

1.3k · December 26, 2003

there are no caches in Russia

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?country_id=163

the reason being is because if you have a GPSr, you will be arrested. I checked the US travel advisory for Russia and GPSr's are completely banned and if you have one they will arrest you and confiscate it.

For accurate information please view http://travel.state.gov/gps.html That page will tell you who you need to contact and why. I suspect it would be best to include a list of caches you plan on visiting to insure that your use of a GPS in those locations is approved. Note that GPS units appear to be treated exactly the same as cell phones.

Edited December 26, 2003 by bons

6.5k · December 26, 2003

No idea how many caches Russia has, but maybe someone can figure this http://www.geocaching.ru/ site out?

1.3k · December 26, 2003

No idea how many caches Russia has, but maybe someone can figure this http://www.geocaching.ru/ site out?

The babelfish decently converts Russian to English.

http://world.altavista.com/

5k · December 26, 2003

No idea how many caches Russia has, but maybe someone can figure this http://www.geocaching.ru/ site out?

Welch, I dunno if you bumped into that on your own or not, but I was shocked to see that!

This is a topic of much interest, I only wish the topic-starter hadn't been so chicken-little.

There are caches in Russia.

GEPs are not "completely banned." They are prohibited unless you possess a permit. Yes, permits are difficult to obtain, but GPSs exist in Russia. Check out the Russian geocaching site posted by Welch, or look here, the Russian page of the Degree Confluence project.

The fact that Russia required a permit is disappointing, as I am planning a Russian trip myself. It appears that right now, legal channels are not the way to go. I exchanged email with another cacher who told me that he's been taking his GPS to Russia for years and has never had a problem. He explained that if someone asks about it, he either tells them it's an "electronic map," or he justs pays them the "fine."

As for the Russian site. I've only had 1/2 a year of Russian language, but it appears to be rather legitimate.

Статьи о GPS - About GPS

Полезные советы - Helpful Hints

Программы для GPS - GPS Programs

Электронные карты - Electronic Maps

Форум - Forum (pronounced almost the same, by the way)

The forums have lots of messages, too... almost as many as navi-cache. :mad:

That's very cool. Thanks for the link, Welch.

Jamie

5k · December 26, 2003

Wow... perusing that site. How come I never knew this existed? Why don't we have a Russian forum? They are part of our community, we ought to have them here.

And check this out!

Wow. In fact it appears that there are many, many more caches there than those just listed on this site. Look at this map page, for instance. On the maps, you can click on the icons to get the cache page. The map with 32 caches is St. Petersburg, and the page with 84 caches is Moscow.

This is very cool.

Jamie

6.5k · December 26, 2003

No idea how many caches Russia has, but maybe someone can figure this http://www.geocaching.ru/ site out?

The babelfish decently converts Russian to English.

http://world.altavista.com/

Yes, I was actually looking at the site a little while ago with babelfish. The home page translates well, but you go into the forums (5000 posts!), or look at some cache pages and you start bumpting into odd phrases and words (you know typical babelfish stuff :mad: )

JamieZ, it was pointed out someplace in a thread about 'other databases', IIRC Team 360 was the one who posted a link there.

24.7k · December 26, 2003

Everyone pretty much summed up the Russia thing. They have their own geocaching site and do allow GPS's but for all intents and purposes you won't be allowed to bring one on your trip.

Goofy as it is Russia is a former communist super power. Perhaps some of the old ways still linger since the new ways are not exactly a sweeping success yet.

If your stopping back east snag my travel bug and take it with you!

Nevermind, looks like he's gone again. Never got the notice!

Edited December 26, 2003 by Renegade Knight

December 26, 2003

Going to Russia for tourism is not bad at all. The Czar's palaces are beautiful plus there are some great art museums. Plus being inside the Kremlin or the Red Square is something to hoot about. Not quite sure if the "Lenins Tomb" cache is such a good idea though, those russians can be grumpy when you mess with their national savior.

December 26, 2003

You could always do it WaldenRun style.....

WaldenRun style... I like the sound of that

December 28, 2003

Went to Moscow in March 1999 - spent 3 and a half weeks there staying with a local. I'd give more details as to why I was there but I don't want to turn this into a debate as to the merits of my particular situation. Perhaps some of you will guess why we were there - feel free to e-mail me privately if interested

Anyway, we never worried about the "mob" - who mostly assassinate one another, apparently. Against advice, we ventured out "on our own", even on the subway system, with only the most rudimentary understanding of Russian (hello, good bye, thank you, where is, and a few more) but with a good understanding of the pronunciation of the Cyrillic alphabet. Many words are very similar sounding to English but look altogether different - for example, "PECTOPAH" is pronounced "Ryes-tor-ahn", which you might be able to figure out means "restaurant".

Visa's were not particularly expensive, IIRC, but that may have changed since then (or maybe they were just swamped by all our other expeses!).

Anyway, I would heartily encourage anyone to go see Russia, including Moscow, for geocaching or general tourism. It wasn't geocaches we were seeking when we were there, though! (our trip concluded very happily!).

4.5k · December 28, 2003

I was pretty impressed by their cache pages. Here's one. I like they way they imbed the pictures so there's no need to click on the verbiage. (Is that a funciton of HTML? If so, cachers there seem to be more computer literate.) Also, they seem to write a lot. Don't know what they're saying but both the hiders and finders seem to have a lot to say. It almost appears to be a travelogue in the hide section.

The Moscow map is like Buxley's.

Overall, a nice presentation.

1.2k · December 28, 2003

Well, I think in a lot of countries in the world are not GPS allowed or they don't like them... Imagine if you, as an american, arrives on a 'holiday' trip to Iran and starts running around with your GPSr and digital camera... When the military/police stops you and ask what you do, then you starts talking about 'Yeah man, I'm from the USA and I'm here as a tourist and looking for the museum, do you know where it is?" as an easy excuse (since they probably don't know what geocaching is, is it much easier to lie)...

I think the next thing you will have to do, is to call your embassy from the police station...

Example of countries that might not like GPSr: Iran (and the most of the arabic world), Russia (and their old parts), China and so on...

1.2k · December 28, 2003

(By the way, we just hidded a cache a couple of feets away from the russian embassy in our town... GCHCAM )

December 28, 2003

For the no caches in Russia, I forgot to hit the seek button when I pulled up Russia on the list of country's. As far as you folks saying it's ok to bring one here is the exact quote from the US Department of State's website http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html

The importation and use of Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and other radio electronic devices are subject to special rules and regulations in Russia. Mapping and natural resource data collection activities associated with normal, commercial and scientific collaboration may result in seizure of the equipment and/or arrest of the user. The penalty for using a GPS device in a manner that is determined to have compromised Russia’s national security can carry a prison term of ten to twenty years. No traveler should seek to import or use GPS equipment in any manner unless it has been properly and fully documented by the traveler in accordance with the instructions of the Glavgossvyaznadzor (Main Inspectorate of Communications) and is declared in full on a customs declaration at the point of entry to the Russian Federation.

The important sentance is the second one to where even with normal use you may be arrested.

BTW, how'd you like to sit down @ a PC to find a Russian keyboard hooked up?

Edited December 28, 2003 by mogolloyd

1.2k · December 28, 2003

Of course must we respect the local rules. I can't go to the US and expect that the Swedish laws and regulations can apply in the US. In Swedish is it legal to trespass on private property, I can even camp on your property without asking for your permission. In Sweden are caches hidden inside bridges, near airports, under highway bridges, near police stations etc.. Will I be able to run around with a flashlight, GPS and other equipment near a police station without getting attention?

So, this means that every country has their own rules, laws, regulations and manor. We must respect that...

1.3k · December 28, 2003

Mapping and natural resource data collection activities associated with normal, commercial and scientific collaboration may result in seizure of the equipment and/or arrest of the user.

does not mean

if you have a GPSr, you will be arrested

We have gun control laws, they have GPS control laws. The correct thing to do is to look into those laws and find out what you need to do in order to properly carry a controlled item in that region.

Since they have a page specifically about this: (http://travel.state.gov/gps.html) It's easy to see what the requirements are and who you need to contact. And if they say no, they say no, but they might also say yes. And as I think about it, an official paper that says you're approved to go geocaching could prevent a LOT of misunderstandings by the local police. Heck, there are days I wish I had that kind of paper here.

------------------------------------------------------

I like they way they imbed the pictures so there's no need to click on the verbiage. (Is that a funciton of HTML? If so, cachers there seem to be more computer literate.)

It's a function of HTML. If there is enough demand, I can write up a short one page tutorial for using HTML to create geocaching pages. It's not very complicated and it's well worth the effort.

1.2k · December 28, 2003

We have gun control laws, they have GPS control laws. The correct thing to do is to look into those laws and find out what you need to do in order to properly carry a controlled item in that region.

I just say; Michael Moore and his "Bowlin' for Columbine"...

Is it gun control to hand out a rifle to each new costumer at a bank office?

And you americans wonder why the rest of the world sometimes think you are a little bit strange? (Wow, I think I just added 10% extra warning by my self right now...)

Edited December 28, 2003 by hedberg

1.7k · December 28, 2003

[is it gun control to hand out a rifle to each new costumer at a bank office?

Hmmm.....

This seems to be off topic and intented to "stir up trouble", don't you think?

1.2k · December 28, 2003

Well like I said earlier, each country has it own laws.. In some countries are GPS allowed, in other it isn't... According to my own opinion are the best way of getting GPS allowed in Russia not to bring a GPS and walk around with it.. If too many people don't follow the laws, it might be even stronger laws against it..

The same with everything we do within geocaching. If someone puts a new cache in a stupid place, and it gets discovered - it can spoil the geocaching as a sport for the rest of the people in that area.

I have read about that you are not allowed to have caches on public ground in some states in the US. Might that not be because of some people messed it up?

I don't think that a government or other authority just invent a law or regulation against something without a reason..

1.2k · December 28, 2003

BTW Dusty, here is a cache I think that you would like to visit: GC2E23

2.3k · December 28, 2003

And you americans wonder why the rest of the world sometimes think you are a little bit strange? (Wow, I think I just added 10% extra warning by my self right now...)

Some times WE wonder why we are so strange too!

Hope you didn't get a warning.

2.6k · December 28, 2003

Phrases like 'you Americans' or 'in Russia they think' or 'all Asian women are' etc are my pet peeve. I know, people don't necessarily generalize all the time, but that kind of words are mostly harmful in this kind of discussions.

Sure, there are several ludicrous (IMO) laws in America, Russia and other countries that affect geocaching among other activities. I don't agree with many of them, but I still wouldn't go very far thinking that the people of that certain country are 100% behind those laws.

Someone told to have fun if I go to Russia. I don't have any plans to go there in the near future, but I've had very much fun on my previous trips.

December 28, 2003

In my two weeks in Moscow just about every young person I met spoke at least a little english and all were affable and happy to get the opportunity to practice.....and every internet cafe I went to in russia had regular keyboards available.

December 28, 2003

I just say; Michael Moore and his "Bowlin' for Columbine"...
Is it gun control to hand out a rifle to each new costumer at a bank office?

Yeah, they need to quit giving guns to those costumers. Maybe then us customers could get them. Oh wait a minute, I don't want one.

December 29, 2003

Hi there! Nobody hates geocaching in Russia. Who told that?

I'm a geocacher from Russia, I'm one of 300 players registered on www.geocaching.ru, we have more than 80 caches only in Moscow region, approximately 200 around Russia. If you wish to search Russian caches, visit our web site. Those who are interested tell us if you want our site to be translated into English. Anyway, meanwhile you can leave messages in our forum.

By the way, all our caches are located in such places where you will never meet controlling bodies, don't be afraid.

December 29, 2003

Wow. In fact it appears that there are many, many more caches there than those just listed on this site...

Hi folks,

In fact, Russia doesn't hate geocaching :unsure: and there are many caches in the country, especially in Moscow and SPb regions.

The game here started in 2002 only and the major limitation is not any governmental controls over the GPS market but the fact that the income of Russian population is low and not many people are able to spend money on GPS ($170 for Garmin eTrex is a big sum of money, indeed, especially in province). Nevertheless, there are caches and there are players who enjoy the game.

Geocaching.ru is in Russian only but I guess that rules do not differ much from those in .com area. There is one rule maybe that I would like to highlight: in Russian game each cache is to be connected to some place of interest - an ancient monastery, a waterfall, a forgotten church deep in the forest, etc. So if you visit Russia you might be interested in geocaching as in some sort of sightseeing.

Concerning governmental rules. In fact, they are unclear by the moment. (BTW, by 2000 even cellular phones were formally banned here). Nowadays GPS is used widely but it is suggested to avoid any demonstration of these devices to the police and local powers at all (this is why, in particular, we also avoid creating caches in urban areas). And certainly it would be wise if you don't use GPS near military objects.

GPS receivers are sold in Moscow in several stores. Formally you need special permission from the government to use it but GPS owners tend to omit this demand

2.6k · December 29, 2003

Hey, nice to get some Russian replies in this thread! :unsure: Why is it that no more caches have been listed in Geocaching.com? It would help us Finns, many of who often visit your side of the border, and about all the caches in Finland are listed in Gc.com.

2.3k · December 29, 2003

I agree, perhaps some of the folks on geocaching.ru would be kind enough to post on gc.com as well. I know that if I went to Russia, I would find it very cool to go geocaching there, as long as it won't end up getting me in trouble...

6.5k · December 29, 2003

Yes! How dare you Russians not use 'our' system :unsure:

Disclaimer: I am joking, noone flip out

December 30, 2003

It's a function of HTML. If there is enough demand, I can write up a short one page tutorial for using HTML to create geocaching pages. It's not very complicated and it's well worth the effort.

If no one else would like to know then email me please. I do html programming but have never figured out how to use it with geocaching.

Thanks!!

December 30, 2003

Well, I think in a lot of countries in the world are not GPS allowed or they don't like them... Imagine if you, as an american, arrives on a 'holiday' trip to Iran and starts running around with your GPSr and digital camera... When the military/police stops you and ask what you do, then you starts talking about 'Yeah man, I'm from the USA and I'm here as a tourist and looking for the museum, do you know where it is?" as an easy excuse (since they probably don't know what geocaching is, is it much easier to lie)...

I think the next thing you will have to do, is to call your embassy from the police station...

Example of countries that might not like GPSr: Iran (and the most of the arabic world), Russia (and their old parts), China and so on...

Actually that's not true...

I was in the middle east for 2 and a half years and the use of GPS is not only considered wise but often crucial for survival. Once you enter the deserts or any of the empty quarters the landmarks disappear pretty fast so the GPS is your one and only lifeline. So, no, it's not as bad as what you allude to. At least not in the gulf

DirtRunner.

3.5k · December 30, 2003

Does that Russian site sell t-shirts? I can't make heads or tails of it. Must be in some other language or something.

A Russian geocaching shirt would be sweet!

Edit - found the store link. D'oh!

Edited December 30, 2003 by 9Key

December 30, 2003

I'm a geocacher from Russia, I'm one of 300 players registered

Greetings, wow, who knew that geocaching was so large worldwide. Checked out the site, really interesting to see how this works out in other languages.

I live in Canada, and there are exactly 3 places to get official Geocache gear here, so I wondered how many are there in Russia?

The answer according to Groundspeak.......zero........

Maybe we need to open a store in Moscow? Anyway, Welcome all Russian Geocachers! If you ever get to Victoria, come visit me!

December 30, 2003

Why is it that no more caches have been listed in Geocaching.com? It would help us Finns, many of who often visit your side of the border, and about all the caches in Finland are listed in Gc.com.

It's significant issue. Seems, most of us do not speak English well like Finns. ;)Anyway, I will try to translate my own caches at least and put them to .com site.

December 30, 2003

Does that Russian site sell t-shirts?

Yes, it does. Take a look on http://geocaching.ru/?pn=17

The price is about $12 but I have no idea how to make a deal

December 30, 2003

> I agree, perhaps some of the folks on geocaching.ru would be kind enough to post on gc.com as well. I know that if I went to Russia, I would find it very cool to go geocaching there, as long as it won't end up getting me in trouble...

The problem is that a) not many Russians speak/read/write English fluently, and most of caches are being described with much text. Each cache must be connected to some place of interest and is usually given a careful and detailed description.

All my caches have full-text description, like this one - a ruined country estate with an unique church (http://www.geocaching.ru/?pn=101&cid=302) or this - a canyon in Khibiny mountains (http://www.geocaching.ru/?pn=101&cid=165) or any other one... I have no idea how I manage translating all this into English. This would take so-o-ooo much time...

We're now searching for a solution... most probably will start with a webpage in English with some sort of FAQ and recommendations for our friends from abroad who are thinking about little geocaching adventures here :blink:

> I live in Canada, and there are exactly 3 places to get official Geocache gear here, so I wondered how many are there in Russia?

Russian geocachers produce T-shirts and stickers but if you mean smth like that (http://shop.Groundspeak.com/category.cfm?categoryID=5&home=t) - AFAIK there's no site in Russia which sells "official" gear.

(and thanks for your kind invitation... feel free to contact if you are planning to search some interesting cache nearby Moscow :mad:

December 30, 2003

Hello CJ!

Russian geocachers produce T-shirts and stickers but if you mean smth like that

If you wish, I would GLADLY mail you some Geocaching stickers or other gear to trade you for RUSSIAN GEOCACHING stickers or Shirts! I think that it would be great to have "Russian Geocache Gear" or stickers on my car!

Please feel free to contact me through Geocaching, and I will mail the items directly to your home. I think it would be a great trade!

Sincerly,

Pete

5k · December 30, 2003

This is a great thread, and I'm interested in the Футболки too.

I just wish this thread weren't titled "Russia Hates Geocaching."

Mogolloyd, where'd you get the image of the "Russian" keyboard? Maybe they make them like that, but I've never seen one with the characters in that layout.

Jamie

December 30, 2003

Hello CJ!

Russian geocachers produce T-shirts and stickers but if you mean smth like that

If you wish, I would GLADLY mail you some Geocaching stickers or other gear to trade you for RUSSIAN GEOCACHING stickers or Shirts! I think that it would be great to have "Russian Geocache Gear" or stickers on my car!

Please feel free to contact me through Geocaching, and I will mail the items directly to your home. I think it would be a great trade!

Sincerly,

Pete

Count me in!

Come my Russian Friends! Let us contact each other and trade some English Geocaching gear for some Russian Geocaching sweetness.

It would be totally cool if I could get my hands on some of that gear.

Thanks

DirtRunner.

2.3k · December 30, 2003

Translation can be done by Babelfish

Its not always perfect but it does a decent job...

BTW - Looking at their website, they have STATS!!!

Edited December 30, 2003 by Doc-Dean

2.6k · December 30, 2003

Aleck' date='Dec 30 2003, 09:31 AM']
Why is it that no more caches have been listed in Geocaching.com? It would help us Finns, many of who often visit your side of the border, and about all the caches in Finland are listed in Gc.com.

It's significant issue. Seems, most of us do not speak English well like Finns. ;)Anyway, I will try to translate my own caches at least and put them to .com site.

Hey Aleck! Good to hear from you again! It's nice that you'll put your Russian cache here in Gc.com too, along with your cool Finnish ones.

December 30, 2003

I just wish this thread weren't titled "Russia Hates Geocaching."

I agree with you, Jamie.

In other news, but I thought it kinda fits in here: while in russia, you maybe might run into problems when you, as a foreigner, illegally import a GPSr, in the USA you could turn up being a suspect terrorist when carrying around a Farmers' Almanac...:

Almanacs May Be Tool For Terrorists, FBI Says

So I hope none of you US geocachers is using such a farmers' almanac as a tool for geocaching :mad:

Stefan

December 30, 2003

Mogolloyd, where'd you get the image of the "Russian" keyboard? Maybe they make them like that, but I've never seen one with the characters in that layout.

It's different, indeed.

Concerning geocaching gear - plz let me think about it.

Russia Hates Geocaching

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