Logging Puzzle Caches By Proxy

July 19, 2004

After reading about the great puzzle cacheM15 in the forums (and being thoroughly obsessed with it until I solved it), Lowracer brought up the option of solving the cache by proxy if we lived more than 300 miles away.

I think this is a great idea, and I've opened up one of my puzzle caches that is worthy of solving by proxy: The Bear is a Bear

So let's hear about some other tough puzzle caches we can solve by proxy. Aren't there other puzzle cache fans that have lots of good puzzle caches on their watchlists that they have solved?

38.2k · July 20, 2004

I think that defeats the point of geocaching, which is to find caches.

1.4k · July 20, 2004

Ummm, ya. Geocaching without a GPS or even trying to get to the coords. Or is it a locationless without a location? Solving the puzzle is only the first step. It's like finding the park a cache is in without actually finding the cache. But I guess some people log those too.

3.1k · July 20, 2004

I like solving puzzle caches, even if they're far away (I started a short-lived thread about it not long ago. There are a few there you might like to look at). But I'd never log them as found without finding the cache. Seems kind of like logging a water cache because you own a boat. At most, I'd post a note, bragging that I'd solved it, but I'd probably just email the owner.

As it happens I've recently been working on this puzzle cache, and I was able to go out and find it today!

7.2k · July 20, 2004

I don't understand. What is "solving by proxy?"

If you're talking about solving a puzzle and being able to log it without actually visiting the cache, then **** NO!

A puzzle is only a clue, a step in the directions that guide you the cache. In this respect, they are no different than the coords to a 1/1 traditional. A clue can be as easy as turn-by-turn directions walking you directly to the cache or they can be as hard as the most devious puzzle imaginable.

You don't get any bonus points for solving a clue. Bad idea in the extreme.

The only time you can get credit for a find is to actually visit, find, and retrieve the cache and sign the log. Limited exceptions allowed and this ain't one of 'em. There is no log-type of "solved puzzle."

2.1k · July 20, 2004

Hi,

I have a Sportrak, and it works really well (most of the time), do I have to go to the cache site, or can we just assume that I'll find it...it is a lot quicker if I just log them from home.

nfa

6.4k · July 20, 2004

Let's see, traditional cache: It's either under the pile of rocks, or it's under the pile of sticks, right? I should now be able to log about 40,000 caches "by proxy, right?

COOL!

No, wait......lemme rethink this................

I'm way behind logging the caches I actually go out and sign the log in. How am I EVER gonna find the time to log the 40,000 I found by proxy? Oh well, it's not like geocaching is about using a GPS to find something......it's about the smiley!

July 20, 2004

I can't believe you guys. Geocaching is all about the fun. Puzzle caches by proxy are like a type of locationless cache. You certianly do need to visit Australia to find Radio K.A.O.S.

I'm just offering this as an alternative for those of us unusual people that love puzzle caches. I certainly like finding out about different puzzle challenges and trying to solve them.

This is a computer game we all play. Couldn't be done without access to a computer- period. When you find a puzzle cache, you are determining the coordinates, so it is GPS related.

Doesn't anyone else like the idea?

5.3k · July 20, 2004

I can't believe you guys. Geocaching is all about the fun. Puzzle caches by proxy are like a type of locationless cache. You certianly do need to visit Australia to find Radio K.A.O.S.

I'm just offering this as an alternative for those of us unusual people that love puzzle caches. I certainly like finding out about different puzzle challenges and trying to solve them.

This is a computer game we all play. Couldn't be done without access to a computer- period. When you find a puzzle cache, you are determining the coordinates, so it is GPS related.

Doesn't anyone else like the idea?

Solve the puzzle and then email the owner to see if you are right. If you are, post a note on the cache page and pat yourself on the back. You had fun, right?

Edited July 20, 2004 by Stunod

6.4k · July 20, 2004

I can't believe you guys. Geocaching is all about the fun. Puzzle caches by proxy are like a type of locationless cache. You certianly do need to visit Australia to find Radio K.A.O.S.

I'm just offering this as an alternative for those of us unusual people that love puzzle caches. I certainly like finding out about different puzzle challenges and trying to solve them.

This is a computer game we all play. Couldn't be done without access to a computer- period. When you find a puzzle cache, you are determining the coordinates, so it is GPS related.

Doesn't anyone else like the idea?

You're comparing a cache from 2001 to one from 2004. I'm sure the KAOS cache would/could never be approved now under the current guidelines, and I doubt your cache as modified would be listed either. Looks to me you just did 2 things:

Just got your cache flagged for archiving by pointing your changes out here in the forums.
Gave TPTB one more reason to lock the cache description after it's been approved.

People were changing traditional caches to virtual after approval, and they locked that. People were moving cache locations to illegal places after approval, and they clamped down on that. Now people like you are going to make the rest of us go to an admin every time we want to change our cache description? Thanks for nuttin'!

7.2k · July 20, 2004

Doesn't anyone else like the idea?

Not me.

Did you change your cache page after it was reviewed and approved? If so, you have circumvented the review process totally. The Radio K.A.O.S. Cache was reviewed and approved a LONG time ago. The guidelines have changed and that type of cache is no longer approved. That cache is grandfathered. Your cache should stand on it's own merits and should conform to the guidelines that were in effect when it was reviewed and approved.

Changing your cache page after it is reviewed can get it archived, FYI.

9.1k · July 20, 2004

You might want to visit a website dedicated to solving puzzles... or start one yourself. Me, I'll keep hunting for ammo cans in the back country, tupperware in the parks, and micros in the cities.... regardless of whether they have puzzle components.

38.2k · July 20, 2004

I'm just offering this as an alternative for those of us unusual people that love puzzle caches. I certainly like finding out about different puzzle challenges and trying to solve them.

You have two people "looking for" the cache. One lives 100 miles away and the other lives 300 miles away. Both solve the puzzle, but you want the fellow who lives 300 miles away to be able to get a smiley just because he solved the puzzle in the comfort of his airconditioned home office. Yet the lady who solved the puzzle and lives 100 miles away has to drive there, hike out in the heat, rain, or snow. Wade through poison ivy and hordes of insects to get to the site and spend half an hour checking all the nooks and crannies for the cache so she can log the find. Just doesn't seem quite fair.

I think Stunod has it right. If you can solve the puzzle, post a note and give yourself a pat on the back (and wait for locals to e-mail you for the answer). You tested your puzzle solving skills and had fun, but it still isn't a find. Why do so many people think that you aren't having fun unless you get to log a smiley?

Gave TPTB one more reason to lock the cache description after it's been approved.

I really, really hope that isn't being considered. It would be a nightmare for cache owners.

Edited July 20, 2004 by briansnat

6.4k · July 20, 2004

I'm just offering this as an alternative for those of us unusual people that love puzzle caches. I certainly like finding out about different puzzle challenges and trying to solve them.

You have two people "looking for" the cache. One lives 100 miles away and the other lives 300 miles away. Both solve the puzzle, but you want the fellow who lives 300 miles away to be able to get a smiley just because he solved the puzzle in the comfort of his airconditioned home office. Yet the lady who solved the puzzle and lives 100 miles away has to drive there, hike out in the heat, rain, or snow. Wade through poison ivy and hordes of insects to get to the site and spend half an hour checking all the nooks and crannies for the cache so she can log the find. Just doesn't seem quite fair.

I think Stunod has it right. If you can solve the puzzle, post a note and give yourself a pat on the back (and wait for locals to e-mail you for the answer). You tested your puzzle solving skills and had fun, but it still isn't a find. Why do so many people think that you aren't having fun unless you get to log a smiley?

Yeah, but its worse then that. The person 250 miles away gets to log it "by proxy" and the person 1 town closer and only 240 miles away (480 miles round trip) may have spend 7,8,10hrs of driving for the same smiley? how lame is that?

I flew 2,500 miles, drove 100 miles each way, and then spent 6hrs hiking/rock climbing to log one virtual. I know the sense of accomplishment I got from logging that smiley would sure be cheapened if the next "finder" never left his easy chair and air-conditioned house.

Gave TPTB one more reason to lock the cache description after it's been approved.

I really, really hope that isn't being considered. It would be a nightmare for cache owners.

Me too, but if people are getting caches listed here, then changing the description to something they KNOW would never be approved; something they KNOW the site currently will not list; then locking the description and requiring the cache to be re-approved would be the next logical step to control that. Same thing that happened with editing distances and cache types. A few people ruined it for everyone. Same thing here.

2.1k · July 20, 2004

Hi Huntnlady,

Have you considered Armchair Treasure Hunting? That sounds a lot like what you are describing, as opposed to geocaching, which does not sound a lot like what you are describing.

There are about a gazillion links out there for those types of hunts, and others like them. You can also buy books of puzzles and cryptograms, and not even have to log them or even venture online, if the solution to such things is your path to joy.

There is a new puzzle/mystery cache in my area, but you will have to make the trek to Upstate NY to log a find.

Good Luck,

nfa

Edited July 20, 2004 by NFA

July 20, 2004

What about the guy who didn't solve the puzzle? His girlfriend solved the puzzle and he just tagged along with her to sign the logbook. In my book the guy in Hawaii who solved the puzzle but can't sign the log deserves the smiley more than the guy who didn't solve the puzzle.

2.1k · July 20, 2004

What about the guy who didn't solve the puzzle? His girlfriend solved the puzzle and he just tagged along with her to sign the logbook. In my book the guy in Hawaii who solved the puzzle but can't sign the log deserves the smiley more than the guy who didn't solve the puzzle.

Hi,

The guy you mentioned found the cache...that is the point of the found log post option...we all know the general locations of tens of thousands of geocaches, that doesn't mean we can log them...we have to actually find them. If I bring my son along on a cache hunt, and he finds the cache, even if my sportrak led us there, he gets to log in with his account as a (you guessed it, aren't these bolded/underlined repetitions fun?) found.

Maybe some puzzle-types should petition gc.com for a "solved, but didn't go there" option to log.

nfa

7.2k · July 20, 2004

What about the guy who didn't solve the puzzle?

So? It's not about solving puzzles. It's about finding caches. The only difference between a traditional and a puzzle cache is the fact the owner decided to put a puzzle in the way of finding it. Nothing more. Nothing less.

As it related to logging a cache, a puzzle cache like M15 is no different than a fill-in-the-blank puzzle. Finding the cache is the important thing, not knowing where it is.

July 20, 2004

I'm going to go with the group concensus here. I've already stripped out the proxy language from my listing. Was not my intent to circumvent the review process. This was an extremely challenging puzzle and the actual cache itself was almost a drive-by, my feeling was that solving the puzzle was 99.9% of finding this cache, and that those who found it by having someone else solve it for them didn't deserve the smiley at all.

I'll ask those who found by proxy to change their smiley to a note. I should also do the same for those who didn't solve the puzzle but signed the log, but I won't.

7.2k · July 20, 2004

Maybe some puzzle-types should petition gc.com for a "solved, but didn't go there" option to log.

Actually, I've been thinking about that. Wouldn't there be a need for a confirmation? What better of way knowing you solved the puzzle that finding the cache?

I think a new log-type is not needed. A note will do.

7.2k · July 20, 2004

I'm going to go with the group concensus here. I've already stripped out the proxy language from my listing. Was not my intent to circumvent the review process. This was an extremely challenging puzzle and the actual cache itself was almost a drive-by, my feeling was that solving the puzzle was 99.9% of finding this cache, and that those who found it by having someone else solve it for them didn't deserve the smiley at all.

I'll ask those who found by proxy to change their smiley to a note. I should also do the same for those who didn't solve the puzzle but signed the log, but I won't.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,

thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,

thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!

:blink:

2.1k · July 20, 2004

I know the sense of accomplishment I got from logging that smiley would sure be cheapened if the next "finder" never left his easy chair and air-conditioned house.

Really? Your internal sense of accomplishment is cheapened by the actions of others? You, of all people, have that low of a self-image?? I'm shocked.

You did all that travel and effort to log your find..and he didn't...so what does that say about you?? Nothing. If there's a way that a cache can be logged alternatively that doesn't require leaving your house, but you chose to do it the hard way...then, you chose to do it the hard way and you should be happy to have experienced your choice (just like the other person was happy to experience their's).

That having been said, I doubt the website will cotton to virtual/physical hybrids any day soon (which is what is being suggested if I understand correctly).

2.5k · July 20, 2004

What about the guy who didn't solve the puzzle? His girlfriend solved the puzzle and he just tagged along with her to sign the logbook.

How is that different from going caching in a group to any other cache? Twelve people are looking but if little Timmy's the one that found the ammo box should the rest of the group not get to log the find because of that?

July 20, 2004

I love puzzle caches. I sometimes try and solve ones that are not in my area just to figure them out. At first, the proxy idea seemed great. But after taking in the various sides of this debate, I think that finding the actual cache and logging the find in the logbook is essential. The best argument was that without that, one could just log a find on any cache because they figured if they went, they would find it.

July 20, 2004

I gotta second Silny on this one. I thought about it, and, in retrospect, it's a bad idea. I've got a whole pile of Silicon Valley, CA puzzle caches solved (40-50 by now) with the intent of visiting them up there someday. Being able to proxy it would defeat the point of making the trip in the first place.

If someone wants to log a 'note' on one of my puzzle caches saying they solved the puzzle, they're welcome to do that -- it would be neat to know someone out in another part of the country might be looking at 'em. But a find probably isn't appropriate. This is geocaching.com, not geo-puzzlesolving.com.

Dave, The Cow Spots

1.4k · July 20, 2004

This was an extremely challenging puzzle and the actual cache itself was almost a drive-by, my feeling was that solving the puzzle was 99.9% of finding this cache, and that those who found it by having someone else solve it for them didn't deserve the smiley at all.

That's kind of a bummer too. Making people work hard for a little drive-by? Just a viewpoint about that: I don't enjoy puzzles, but I'd work hard for one that lead to a fun cache hunt, but not for a little drive-by.

July 20, 2004

So long as the difficulty and terrain match up to reality, what's the problem? No one's forcing you to do it. Some people like a hard puzzle with an easy cache afterwards, some like a 5/5. You don't want to do a 5/2, don't do it.

July 20, 2004

Mopar that was really mean of you to put a should be archived note on my cache. I can't believe how spiteful you are.

I didn't mean to stir up all this controversy.

My cache is no longer by proxy because the reviewer threatened to archive it after Mopar's entry.

My find on M15 was changed to a note.

You people are way too serious, it is only a game.

BTW, I love locationless caches and am dismayed at TPTB dragging their feet on them. Locationless give cachers worldwide a chance to play, and every log is unique and from a different perspective than your regional friends.

I am locking this thread.

Logging Puzzle Caches By Proxy

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