Geocache Benchmark Discreptancy

[+Colorado Papa]

While in Hillsboro, Oregon, I downloaded benchmark datasheets from NGS to seek, one of which was DF5628, Hillsboro Reset. When I tried to log the find with geocaching.com, the PID does not exist. Doing a search on the coordinates, I came up with RD0386. Other finders did not photo the actual mark, but that of RM5. A search of NGS has RD0386 as destroyed back in 1975.

 

RD0386 STATION RECOVERY (1975)

RD0386

RD0386'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1975

RD0386'STATION DESTROYED, SEE HILLSBORO RESET.

 

DF5628'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1975 (CLN)

DF5628'THE AZIMUTH MARK, AND THE UNDERGROUND MARK WERE RECOVERED IN GOOD

DF5628'CONDITION. THE SURFACE STATION MARK, AND THE REFERENCE MARKS HAD

DF5628'BEEN DESTROYED. A NEW STATION MARK WAS PLUMBED PRECISELY OVER THE

DF5628'UNDERGROUND MARK, AND NEW REFERENCE MARKS WERE ESTABLISHED.

 

How could geocaching.com have the reverse data?

 

So how do I log my find, cheat like the others and list it as RD0386 but submit a photo of Hillsboro Reset? Oh, I also found RM2 which NGS had as Not Found by NGS themselves!

[+seventhings]

CO Papa -

 

That's a tough one!!! Looks like a database error to me - I can't see why DF5628 isn't in Geocaching.

 

It's frustrating - I've found four that are in the NGS database but are not in Geocaching, but all four of mine are explainable because they were very recently monumented.

 

I would not log the wrong mark as found.

 

will

[+GeckoGeek]

How old is the Geocaching database?

 

My thoughts are that it might take some time before a new mark is added but it will be added with the original observation date. If the paperwork takes two years to go in, it wouldn't be added until 1977.

 

In the meantime a destroyed mark could be processed in just 2 months.

 

Just a thought, but I'm sure the Geocaching copy is newer then that.

Edited August 2, 2004 by GeckoGeek

[+Colorado Papa]

RD0386                          STATION RECOVERY (1975)

RD0386

RD0386'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1975

RD0386'STATION DESTROYED, SEE HILLSBORO RESET.

 

DF5628'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1975 (CLN)

DF5628'THE AZIMUTH MARK, AND THE UNDERGROUND MARK WERE RECOVERED IN GOOD

DF5628'CONDITION.  THE SURFACE STATION MARK, AND THE REFERENCE MARKS HAD

DF5628'BEEN DESTROYED.  A NEW STATION MARK WAS PLUMBED PRECISELY OVER THE

DF5628'UNDERGROUND MARK, AND NEW REFERENCE MARKS WERE ESTABLISHED.

 

  How could geocaching.com have the reverse data?

 

So how do I log my find, cheat like the others and list it as RD0386 but submit a photo of Hillsboro Reset? 

Looks like I had better contact Deb Brown and have her sort this one out. In reviewing the photos of my trip west, I find that I DID take a picture of HILLSBORO, and it was not HILLSBORO RESET. I found it as described, in a 12-inch manhole buried under three inches of water and sand. Too bad the others didn't take the cover off and attempt to photo it.

 

Edited August 9, 2004 by Colorado Papa

[+JeremyA]

In reviewing the photos of my trip west, I find that I DID take a picture of HILLSBORO, and it was not HILLSBORO RESET.

From your photos I take the reverse to be true:

 

RD0386_MARKER: DH = HORIZONTAL CONTROL DISK

RD0386_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

RD0386_STAMPING: HILLSBORO 1962

RD0386_MARK LOGO: CGS

 

DF5628_MARKER: DH = HORIZONTAL CONTROL DISK

DF5628_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

DF5628_STAMPING: HILLSBORO 1962 1975

DF5628_MARK LOGO: NGS

 

The disk in your photo is an NGS disk stamped HILSBORO 1962 1975 so surely this is DF5628 (HILLSBORO RESET) and not RD0386 (HILLSBORO).

 

JeremyA

Edited August 9, 2004 by JeremyA

[+Colorado Papa]

The disk in your photo is an NGS disk stamped HILLSBORO 1962 1975 so surely this is DF5628 (HILLSBORO RESET) and not RD0386 (HILLSBORO).

Good observation. Now I'm back to my original post, how do I log this since RD0386 should never have been in geocaching.com database but should have included DF5628?

 

Think I'll post a note with pictures for RD0386 so others don't make these false entries that they found it.

Edited August 9, 2004 by Colorado Papa

[+Colorado Papa]

Here is the explanation about the discrepancy between RD0386 HILLSBORO and DF5628 HILLSBORO RESET.

 

The NGS entries for HILLSBORO RESET 1975 to 2003 were incorrectly posted to RD0386. In 2003 the error was discovered so the incorrect entries were transfered to DF5628 and RD0386 was then listed as destroyed.

 

Geocaching.com downloaded the information prior to NGS discovering the error, so the database continues to list RD0386 but not DF5628. Just another argument that this database needs to be kept up-to-date somehow.

[+Colorado Papa]

NGS is not out the woods with this one yet. Seems like they combined two reports for different PIDs into this one. The first part agrees with DF5628 to the bold word which I think started to be DESCRIBED. The later portion probably was the word GEODETIC and is not even related to this mark.

 

DF5628'RECOVERY NOTE BY JE CHANCE AND ASSOCIATES 1996 (KAL)

DF5628'THE STATION IS LOCATED ABOUT 7.5 MILES (12.1 KM) EAST OF FOREST GROVE,

DF5628'4.5 MILES (7.2 KM) SOUTHEAST OF NORTH PLAINS IN NORTHEAST HILLSBORO,

DF5628'ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE HILLSBORO AIRPORT. TO REACH THE STATION

DF5628'FROM THE INTERSECTION OF CORNELIUS PASS ROAD ROAD AND US HIGHWAY 26

DF5628'(EXIT 62) NORTHEAST OF HILLSBORO, PROCEED SOUTH ON CORNELIUS PASS RD

DF5628'1.0 MILES (1.6 KM) TO NORTHWEST CORNELL ROAD, TURN RIGHT AND PROCEED

DF5628'WEST ON NW CORNELL RD 2.5 MILES (4.0 KM) TO THE STATION ON THE RIGHT

DF5628'IN THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING PARKING LOT. THE STATION IS A STANDARD

DF5628'NGS HORIZONTAL CONTROL MARK DISK SET IN THE TOP OF A ROUND CONCRETE

DF5628'MONUMENT, RECESSED 10 CM BELOW THE GROUND. THE STATION IS LOCATED

DF5628'13.05 M (42.81 FT) NORTH OF A THE NORTH EDGE OF CORNELL ROAD, 5.6 M

DF5628'(18.4 FT) SOUTH OF THE SOUTHEAST LEG OF THE BEACON TOWER AND 16.75 M

DF5628'(54.95 FT) EAST OF THE CENTER OF A SQUARE DRAIN INLET. REFERENCE

DF5628'MONUMENTS RM 4 AND RM 5 WERE RECOVERED AS DESCDETIC SURVEY

DF5628'TRIANGULATION STATION DISK SET IN THE TOP OF A SQUARE CONCRETE

DF5628'MONUMENT, PROJECTING APPROXIMATELY 13 CM ABOVE THE GROUND. THE

DF5628'STATION IS LOCATED 26.2 M (86.0 FT) NORTHWEST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE

DF5628'GATE, 74.65 M (244.91 FT) EAST OF THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF A METAL

DF5628'SHED, APPROXIMATELY 60 M (196.8 FT) SOUTH OF THE SOUTHERN BASE OF A 10

DF5628'FT (3.0 M) BERM, 16.2 M (53.1 FT) WEST OF THE FENCELINE, 2.8 M (9.2

DF5628'FT) NORTHEAST OF THE WESTERN WITNESS POST AND 0.65 M (2.13 FT)

DF5628'NORTHWEST OF THE EASTERN WITNESS P) NORTH OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE

DF5628'DIRT TRACK AND 0.6 M (2.0 FT) SOUTH OF A WITNESS POST NOTE -- THE

DF5628'CALIBRATION STATION HAS NO KNOWN COORDINATES OR ELEVATION ASSIGNED TO

DF5628'IT, THOSE GIVEN ARE SCALED APPROXI41.0 M SOUTH OF A LIGHT POLE, 24.75

DF5628'M (81.20 FT) NORTHWEST OF THE SOUTHERN LIGHT POLE AND 14.55 M (47.74

DF5628'FT) NORTHEAST OF THE CENTER OF THE WESTERN PERSONNEL G OF A ROUND

DF5628'DRAIN INLET AT THE NORTHERN END OF THE OVERRUN AREA, 23.65 M (77.59

DF5628'FT) EAST OF A DRAIN INLET ON THE EDGE OF THE RUN-UP AREA, 52.6 M

DF5628'(172.6 FT) WEST OF A DRAIN INLET ON THE WESTERN EDGE OF RUNWAY 16-34

DF5628'AND 0.5 M (1.6 FT) SOUTH OF A CARSONITE WITNESS POST THE STATION IS

DF5628'DESIGNATED AS A SECONDARY AIRPORT CONTROL STATION (SACS) - OREGON ANA

DF5628'SURVEYS 1996

 

Have notified Deb. Now isn't this "research" more fun than geocaching?

[+Colorado Papa]

I take if from the descriptions and this particular reset that underground marks are not the actual PID?

Note how SCALED and ADJUSTED are reversed for each one. I presume the RESET was accurately measured for location but not for elevation like the original was?

 

DF5628'THE AZIMUTH MARK, AND THE UNDERGROUND MARK WERE RECOVERED IN GOOD

DF5628'CONDITION. THE SURFACE STATION MARK, AND THE REFERENCE MARKS HAD

DF5628'BEEN DESTROYED. A NEW STATION MARK WAS PLUMBED PRECISELY OVER THE

DF5628'UNDERGROUND MARK, AND NEW REFERENCE MARKS WERE ESTABLISHED.

 

DF5628 DESIGNATION - HILLSBORO RESET

DF5628* NAD 83(1991)- 45 31 56.69243(N) 122 56 49.02472(W) ADJUSTED

DF5628* NAVD 88 - 61. (meters) 200. (feet) SCALED

 

RD0386 DESIGNATION - HILLSBORO

RD0386* NAD 83(1986)- 45 31 57. (N) 122 56 49. (W) SCALED

RD0386* NAVD 88 - 61.237 (meters) 200.91 (feet) ADJUSTED