What Ever Happened To "earth Caches"

2k · September 22, 2004

I know a few months ago there was discussion on "Earth Caches" in National Parks. Have any been placed?

September 22, 2004

Ummm... I used the search tool and couldn't find any reference to what an "earth cache" is. Perhaps someone can illuminate me, since I don't recall any such discussion.

2.1k · September 22, 2004

Try searching for "Earthcache" (one word). Also make sure you include the GC.com Website Forum in the search, because that's where most of the discussion was.

As to the original question, I have no idea. Seemed like a good idea, but I'm guessing things like weekend throttling and server installations took priority.

2k · September 22, 2004

Care to share the readers digest version?

5.3k · September 22, 2004

What is an Earthcache? Edited September 22, 2004 by Stunod

21.9k · September 22, 2004

The concept was mentioned early on in the development process as an example of something for which Jeremy wanted to give advance notice to developers of third-party software applications. Adding a new cache type would affect programs like GSAK, Cachemate, Watcher, etc.

As such, there are no Earthcaches listed yet, although a number are "in the works." I understand that the protocols for listing the Earthcaches are still being worked out.

2k · September 22, 2004

Thanks omelet boy.

24.7k · September 22, 2004

Having seen some background information on them it will be interesting to see how they pan out.

They have the potential to solve some problems, and they also have the potential to do great harm to traditional caches as has been pointed out as the primary reason virtuals are so hard to approve.

The fun factor sounds like it might be on a par with virtuals. Hard to say until you have done a few.

Edited September 22, 2004 by Renegade Knight

2.1k · September 22, 2004

As such, there are no Earthcaches listed yet, although a number are "in the works." I understand that the protocols for listing the Earthcaches are still being worked out.

There are 2 "earthcaches" listed in Australia (and the HQ of the group handling Earthcache approvals is also listed in Boulder, CO). They're currently listed as "virtuals" though (the HQ has a traditional there). The actual "Earthcache" specific cache-type is not established yet though.

Here are the 3 listings:

Earthcache search results

September 22, 2004

Oh, this is gonna be fun--what a totally good idea!

September 30, 2004

Hi All

Earthcahes are alive and well. I developed two in Australia which have proved to be popular. We have more in the pipelines and have been negotiating with the National Park Service to have some set up with them Already we have three developed with the NPS and awaiting final approval.

The Geological Society of America has developed guidelines as well as an pre-approval process to ensure that these form of virtual caches meet a good education standard (see www'earthcache.org) I realise that some virtual caches are just not 'up to standard' but I hope that all the earthcache variety will all be worth visiting. Soon I hope you will see them listed as a unique cache type.

I really appreciate the support Jeremy and the Groundspeak people, and the geocaching community have given to this educational spin-off of what is a great activity.

Oh, by the way, I live in Australia, and work and play in the USA....so earthcaching will be truely international!

Cheers to all

geoaware (Gary)

2.3k · September 30, 2004

To me, an Earthcache should not be a Virtual, but a cache that is completely "earth-friendly"....look, it could happen-as long as it is made of natural materials...

Think of a cache that is made from a stick, drilled out, maybe hinged in half, with a logsheet rolled up inside, and placed away from the rain....all natural, biodegradable components...sure, it might require some extra maintenance, but it is made of stick and paper...how could the National Parks say no?

Now, don't tell me it would be a mushy mess after a week...not if you PLACE IT CORRECTLY, out of the elements, or in a way that the rain will not get to the logsheet...

2.1k · September 30, 2004

Hi,

How can I place an Earthcache?

nfa

September 30, 2004

Go to www.earthcache.org - that is the Geological Society of America's page with guidelines and an online form for submittal.

Cheers

geoaware

October 1, 2004

I think educational caches are a great idea. . .

Soooo . . . . .

Are HistoryCaches next? That educate you with regard to history, i.e. civil war, civil rights, etc.?

Bartster

October 2, 2004

To me, an Earthcache should not be a Virtual, but a cache that is completely "earth-friendly"....look, it could happen-as long as it is made of natural materials...

Think of a cache that is made from a stick, drilled out, maybe hinged in half, with a logsheet rolled up inside, and placed away from the rain....all natural, biodegradable components...sure, it might require some extra maintenance, but it is made of stick and paper...how could the National Parks say no?

I think this is off topic but it is a good subject for a thread in it's own right.

One of mine.

And another.

Both now archived. But that is because of the nature of them. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.

Anyhow, if this is too off topic then I apologize in advance of any complaint.

2.3k · October 6, 2004

Am I the only one who finds the requirements for an Earthcache confusing?

Is anyone in the process of trying to set one of these up yet?

Are there any up and running?

Who do you contact first if you wanted to set one up? I see the online form but is that for the whole country or should i contact someone local first??

October 6, 2004

We have 1 or 2 pending near Atlanta Georgia.

They are in a park that has foliage/etc that is not found anywhere else in Georgia.

I didn't submit them, but if they get approved, I'll post a link to them up here.

Kenneth

2.3k · October 6, 2004

Can you tell me who did post them? I'd like to email them about their experience.

October 12, 2004

I have posted three Earthcaches.

They all have to follow the guildesa found at www.earthcache.org

Gary

February 10, 2005

One of these "earthcaches" just showed up in Minnesota. I have a few questions. I'll try not to troll. I'm honestly curious:

* Paklid apparently set this up. He's a good cacher, and I have a lot of respect for him. Why doesn't he get credit for this hide, instead of a guy from ACT, AU and CO, USA?

* Why did this get approved in a Minnesota State Park, which does not allow caches in their park? Our current approver for Minnesota, mtn-man, from my understanding, would not have approved it (mtn-man, correct me if I'm wrong). I am active with the Minnesota Geocaching Association, and we are clear to individuals that caches should not be placed in Minnesota State Parks. Policies may be soon changing with the Minnesota State Parks and it would not be a good situation if there were already caches in the parks when the policy changed - especially if the Minnesota DNR wanted to keep track of which caches were in their parks, and notably if there was a specific quota as to how many caches could be in a certian park. It is not advantageous to have existing virtuals there when there could be actual caches.

* Is Groundspeak going to allow other third parties to approve specialty virtuals, while the rest of us are unable to post virtuals? Just curious where Groundspeak's path on this is. I know it's hard to make money on virtuals, but it's good marketing to have "caches" approved by represenatives from federal park systems... but what's next?

* Lastly, the part that probably irks me the wrong way the most, is on the log pages for these virtuals it says, "An Earthcache is an educational form of a virtual cache." I find the comment quite disrespectful to all of the cachers that have spent a lot of time and effort creating very educational, informative and rewarding virtuals. I'd like a response to this.

I personally do not do many virtuals myself, but when I do, I would say that 90% of them are just as educational or more educational than the few Earthcaches I looked at.

I'm not looking to rile anyone up, I'm just interested on Groundspeak's take on my above bulleted 3 questions and 1 comment.

Thanks,

-Aaron

February 11, 2005

So I went out and did this cache this evening, and I talked with Paklid on the phone for a short bit as well. I figure that if I'm going to be talking about these, I have to do one myself.

For reference, the cache is:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...af-082b9614c1b5

I will reply to myself on the 4 bullet points above:

* Paklid did the research for this cache, Paklid went out and found the waypoints, Paklid intends to maintain this cache, Paklid got permission from the people responsible for the park to put this here, Paklid put the cache together, and geoaware and Jeremy approved it. So this should be Paklid's cache, not geoaware's.

Geocaching.com is a geocache listing service. This is Paklid's work and effort, and it should not be credited to geoaware. It is not geoaware's cache. The content of this cache is the responsibility of Paklid. His efforts should not be now out of his control and controlled by geoaware. It is inappropriate to have it in any other person's name. Switch it to Paklid.

Lastly, as icing on this cake, Paklid can't even fix some minor issues with the cache because of this.

* As I said above, Paklid did get permission, so the part about Minnesota State Parks is a mute issue right now.

* I still do not understand why Groundspeak is having a third party approve these earth virtuals. Why doesn't Groundspeak just adopt www.earthcache.com's guidelines? In addition, this third party isn't doing "approval," right now. It's "taking," not "approving." They've taken everyone else's hard work on making these earth virtuals and making it the property and responsibility of geoaware. This is unjustified.

* Please clean up the language that implies that these earth virtuals are "educational," while it implies that others are not. Yes, it doesn't implicitly say that regular virtuals are not educational, but it is strongly implied. It's rude. Fix it.

Lastly, I have a very high amount of respect for Paklid. He made a great virtual multi, and I hope this cache stays around for a long time. It's a great hike and a great tour of two very different parts of this park, and it's a great geological history lesson. I hope readers understand my concerns with the currently flawed process on these virtuals and accept my efforts in these posts in trying to speak for what I feel is just.

-Aaron

February 11, 2005

www.earthcache.org

1.4k · February 11, 2005

I wonder how much the "modest grant" is that the GSA pays the 'selected' geocachers to work on "pre-approved" projects.

I also wonder how much the sponsors (Groundspeak is a sponsor) pay to be listed as a sponsor. I know it's none of my business, but I would think if the GSA wanted to list the coordinates to waterfalls or other 'neat' locations they could do so without soliciting funds from corporate sponsors. Of course since the NPS has signed on as a Partner it's politically correct to do so.

The only two commercial sponsors, according to the Earthcache web site are Subaru and Groundspeak.

I like geocaching.com/Groundspeak and I understand how this can lead to cache approvals in certain 'forbidden' areas, but I just can't get excited about Earthcaches, especially after seeing how Niagra Falls has been approved as a virtual Earthcache.

There are no FAQs on geocaching.com about Earthcaches, there should be. Apparently a lot of people are getting upset when they find out they don't own the cache they worked on and submitted and they can't even edit it.

Once again, I really wish I could understand the whole Earthcache concept. It just seems to me that these 'neat' locations could be made part of an offset or multi-cache.

9.1k · February 11, 2005

Fine, then. Go ahead and make a multicache out of the same spot. If you do some digging (oops, wrong choice of words there), you'll see some earth caches are located right near regular geocaches.

1.4k · February 11, 2005

Fine, then. Go ahead and make a multicache out of the same spot. If you do some digging (oops, wrong choice of words there), you'll see some earth caches are located right near regular geocaches.

So.... you agree that in a lot of instances there's really no need for an Earthcache because a traditional or offset would suffice?

9.1k · February 11, 2005

No. Where do you see me saying that?

Earthcaches and geocaches are two different things. I intend to enjoy both.

1.4k · February 11, 2005

If Earthcaches are going to be listed on geocaching.com then they should be real geocaches. With the moratorium on locationless caches and crackdown on virtuals there should be the same scrutiny applied to Earthcaches.... apparently this isn't the case. I just think that this should be clearly listed on the geocaching.com web site. Earthcaches aren't geocaches and it's obvious from the earthcache.org web site that a few people will be compensated in the form of cash (not cache) to submit them. I guess geocaching has gone from an amateur status to professional

February 11, 2005

I came here to nose around a bit, and am happy to see one of our board members has already posted. I'll be watching this thread, because I'm very interested in the answers to s4xton's questions.

FWIW, I think this is a very bad idea, and very bad policy.

1.6k · February 11, 2005

I realize that some people will visit a virtual and not really pay that much attention to what they find, just get the answers and move on. The same can be said for earthcaches. We go, we get the photo or information we need to log and off we go to the next cache.

We posted the Niagara Falls Earthcache. Tens of thousands of people will pass through the co ordinates we listed for it. They'll stand at the railing and watch the water go over the falls and they'll take their pictures and buy their souvenirs and then they'll get in their cars and go home. Nothing wrong with that, we've done it too.

The purpose of earthcaches is to take you to interesting and unique geological locations. If you really 'look' at the Niagara Gorge (which has a number of 'real' caches in it) you'll see a true record of millions of years of history. Why does the course of the river make a 90 degree turn? What causes the whirlpool? Why are there so many large rocks at the base of the American Falls but not at the base of the Canadian ones?

Just because it happens to be a 'tourist attraction' doesn't mean it's not 'educational'. The Grand Canyon's just a 'big hole in the ground' to some, and speaks volumes about geology to others. How educational it will be really depends on the individual.

Wulf

February 11, 2005

I'm glad there is discussion, but I laid out some serious points to talk about, and none of them have been responded to.

* The person who does the work to create the cache should be the owner of the cache, not a third party.

* How does park approval work?

* Why is earthcache.org, which does not appear to be a non-profit, getting it's database filled up with quality work by volunteers for free? These earth virtuals are the property of the people that developed them, not earthcache.org. Why is this "approval" process different?

* Fix the language that implies that earth virtuals are "educational," while it implies that others are not.

-Aaron

Edited February 11, 2005 by s4xton

1.4k · February 11, 2005

* The person who does the work to create the cache should be the owner of the cache, not a third party.

* How does park approval work?

* Why is earthcache.org, which does not appear to be a non-profit, getting it's database filled up with quality work by volunteers for free? These earth virtuals are the property of the people that developed them, not earthcache.org. Why is this "approval" process different?

* Fix the language that implies that earth virtuals are "educational," while it implies that others are not.

* Yes the person creating a cache should be the owner.

* Who knows...

* Very good question

* I learn something new everytime I go geocaching, so you are correct. Caches other than Earthcaches are educational.

9.1k · February 11, 2005

I would like to know whether the same people behind Earthcache.org are also connected to Earthcaching.com, which appears to be a one-page website that says the following:

Geocaching used to be fun and exciting, but the proliferation of ill-thought-out caches has turned much of geocaching into geotrashing. EarthCaching captures the spirit of the hunt and replaces the destructive act of finding a box of trinkets with the instructive act of learning and appreciating something new about our magnificent Earth. So think outside the box and come EarthCaching!

I have some major problems with the above statement and it would comfort me to hear that this domain name is in no way connected with Earthcache.org.

1.4k · February 11, 2005

I have some major problems with the above statement and it would comfort me to hear that this domain name is in no way connected with Earthcache.org.

Here's the info for earthcaching.com:

Administration Manager GPO Box 5051 Sydney, New South Wales 2001 Australia Registered through: Cheap-DomainNames.com Domain Name: EARTHCACHING.COM Created on: 16-Aug-04 Expires on: 16-Aug-06 Last Updated on: 16-Aug-04 Administrative Contact: Manager, Administration admin@earthcaching.com GPO Box 5051 Sydney, New South Wales 2001 Australia 61298765432 Technical Contact: Manager, Administration admin@earthcaching.com GPO Box 5051 Sydney, New South Wales 2001 Australia 61298765432 Domain servers in listed order: NS1.MODERNNOISE.COM NS2.MODERNNOISE.COM

Oddly enough, the person responsible for the Earthcaches here at gc.com lives in Australia, don't they?

2.1k · February 11, 2005

I have some major problems with the above statement and it would comfort me to hear that this domain name (earthcaching.com) is in no way connected with Earthcache.org.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...dpost&p=1235224

Your forum memory is weak, young one.

Earthcaching.com is owned by someone in Sydney, Australia.

Earthcaching.org is run by the Geological Society of America in Colorado.

The two have nothing to do with each other.

As for other points made in the recent posts in this thread, I believe the answers are going to be found by contacting Gary (the GSA contact for EarthCaches) or contact@Groundspeak.com . I'm sure geoaware has to be the contact point for these caches since part of this work is done in coordination with the NPS. If a hider doesn't like the fact that they don't get some sort of "credit" on the by-line...they don't have to hide an Earthcache.

The approval process is different because what's being hidden requires an extra level of utility...namely that it has to be geologically interesting. That as well as the NPS placement in some cases requires an extra step. The GSA is interested in introducing geology to geocachers.

The language that says that they are educational doesn't dismiss other caches as being non-educational. If you're reading that from their webpage, you're assuming too much.

9.1k · February 11, 2005

I have some major problems with the above statement and it would comfort me to hear that this domain name (earthcaching.com) is in no way connected with Earthcache.org.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...dpost&p=1235224

Your forum memory is weak, young one.

Earthcaching.com is owned by someone in Sydney, Australia.

Earthcaching.org is run by the Geological Society of America in Colorado.

The two have nothing to do with each other.

As for other points made in the recent posts in this thread, I believe the answers are going to be found by contacting Gary (the GSA contact for EarthCaches) or contact@Groundspeak.com . I'm sure geoaware has to be the contact point for these caches since part of this work is done in coordination with the NPS. If a hider doesn't like the fact that they don't get some sort of "credit" on the by-line...they don't have to hide an Earthcache.

The approval process is different because what's being hidden requires an extra level of utility...namely that it has to be geologically interesting. That as well as the NPS placement in some cases requires an extra step. The GSA is interested in introducing geology to geocachers.

The language that says that they are educational doesn't dismiss other caches as being non-educational. If you're reading that from their webpage, you're assuming too much.

Your investigative skills are apparently on an even lower level than my forum reading skills. I knew full well that the GSA representative for Earthcaching is a resident of Australia, and that Earthcaching.com has its "internet home" in Australia. That was enough to at least pose a respectful, honest, legitimate question. Absent that evidence, I would likely not have posted.

6.4k · February 11, 2005

Actually, his memory is good, since geoaware, who is the contact for the Geological Society of America in Colorado, actually lives in Australia according to his profile.

HOWEVER.....

A little more digging turns up more interesting info:

02/11/05 09:41:47 whois geocaching.com.au

.au is a domain of Australia

(international dialing code 61)

Searches for .au can be run at http://www.aunic.net/cgi-bin/whois.aunic

whois -h whois.aunic.net geocaching.com.au ...

Domain Name: geocaching.com.au

Last Modified: 21-Sep-2003 03:02:44 UTC

Registrar ID: R00007-AR

Registrar Name: Bottle Domains

Status: OK

Registrant: Corporate Hoore

Registrant ID: OTHER 092 516 115

Registrant ROID: C1225108-AR

Registrant Contact Name: Head Hoore

Registrant Email: admin@hoore.com

Tech ID: C1225108-AR

Tech Name: Head Hoore

Tech Email: admin@hoore.com

Name Server: ns1.modernnoise.com

Name Server: ns2.modernnoise.com

So, the contact for geocaching.com.au is "Head Hoore" and he is also the admin for hoore.com

Domain Name: HOORE.COM

Reseller..............: bottle domains

Created on............: 17 Feb 2000 00:00:00 EST

Expires on............: 17 Feb 2005 00:00:00 EST

Record last updated on: 5 Feb 2004 00:00:00 EST

Status................: ACTIVE

Owner, Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:

Corporate Hoore Pty Ltd

Head Hoore (ID00098504)

GPO Box 5051

Sydney, NSW 2001

AU

Phone: +61.0294451030

Email: admin@hoore.com

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.MODERNNOISE.COM

NS2.MODERNNOISE.COM

For those who miss the connection, earthcaching.com uses the same PO box as the owner of geocaching.com.au

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Since Ideology ALSO shares many of those same connections, you might want to ask him about the earthcaching website.

Edited February 11, 2005 by Mopar

1.4k · February 11, 2005

I just want to be "compensated" for hiding a Earthcache like the earthcache.org web page discusses

February 11, 2005

As for other points made in the recent posts in this thread, I believe the answers are going to be found by contacting Gary (the GSA contact for EarthCaches) or contact@Groundspeak.com.

They can't publicly respond to this? I'm not the only one that needs the answers.

I'm sure geoaware has to be the contact point for these caches since part of this work is done in coordination with the NPS.

The Earth virtual I did last night had nothing to do with the NPS. It was a Minnesota State Park, which officially bans geocaches. Paklid, a local cacher and hider, got permission to put this virtual there, not geoaware.

If a hider doesn't like the fact that they don't get some sort of "credit" on the by-line...they don't have to hide an Earthcache.

This should be made clear. It's not clear that this third party is developing it's own database of locations at the expense of other people's work. On Geocaching.com, the cache information is the property of the cache hider. On earthcache it's not. This has not been clear and should be made clear. It's not about "credit," it's about ownership, responsibility, respect and being ethical. Paklid, in the cache I did, did all the work. It's his intellectual property. It's not the property of earthcache.org.

Secondly, if someone wants to post a virtual, Groundspeak has forced it's members to go through Earthcache.

The approval process is different because what's being hidden requires an extra level of utility...namely that it has to be geologically interesting. That as well as the NPS placement in some cases requires an extra step. The GSA is interested in introducing geology to geocachers.

This is all understood. Why doesn't geocaching.com simply adopt this approval process instead of giving it to a third party?

The language that says that they are educational doesn't dismiss other caches as being non-educational. If you're reading that from their webpage, you're assuming too much.

This is simply not true. Read this:

An Earthcache is an educational form of a virtual cache. The reward for these caches is learning more about the planet on which we live - its landscapes, its geology or the minerals and fossils that are found there.

This implies that other virtual caches are not in educational form. Yes, I understand that other virtuals are just as or more educational than these, but the language directly implies, to someone who's not familiar, that a normal virtual are not educational. I'm not "assuming," I'm just explaining to you why one needs to be careful about language.

-Aaron

2.1k · February 11, 2005

I knew full well that the GSA representative for Earthcaching is a resident of Australia...

Alright, I'll waste some more time...

geoaware (Gary) has this in his profile:

I hunt for caches with my two young daughters, FJ (9yrs) and JK (6yrs) who love to find the treasure!

That doesn't really align well with the earthcaching.com page of:

...replaces the destructive act of finding a box of trinkets...

Unless he's using his kids as cover-up! AND he's even gone so far as to hide a multi and a traditional box of trinkets! The wily bastard!

Beyond that, other than contacting Gary and asking him if he's out to ruin geocaching.com by using a picture of Earth and a black background to commercially overrun the abuse that is Geocaching....I guess we'll never know!

February 11, 2005

So, the contact for geocaching.com.au is "Head Hoore" and he is also the admin for hoore.com

Go to http://hoore.com/

"Other people's ideas at a discount."

Makes perfect sense to me!

-Aaron

1.4k · February 11, 2005

Maybe if TPTB would enlighten us a bit more about Earthcaches it might remove some of the suspicion.

2.1k · February 11, 2005

This is simply not true. Read this:

An Earthcache is an educational form of a virtual cache. The reward for these caches is learning more about the planet on which we live - its landscapes, its geology or the minerals and fossils that are found there.

This implies that other virtual caches are not in educational form. Yes, I understand that other virtuals are just as or more educational than these, but the language directly implies, to someone who's not familiar, that a normal virtual are not educational. I'm not "assuming," I'm just explaining to you why one needs to be careful about language.

No *you* are reading too far into it. Here's another example:

John is a boy.

Dan is a boy.

John is a good boy.

Now, according to you, since I explicitly state that John is a good boy...that must mean implicitly that Dan (and potentially every other boy in the world) is not good!

They state that Earthcaches are *an* educational form of virtual caches. They do not state that any other form of virtual is not educational. They don't even imply it. They just clarify that this form is educational.

Also, just so we're clear...the owner of geocaching.com.au probably equals the owner of earthcaching.com which still hasn't had any other link to earthcache.org except that the contact person for earthcache.org is located in the same state in Australia (along with 6.6 million other people; nearly 1/3 of all of Australia's population). Right?

6.4k · February 11, 2005

Also, just so we're clear...the owner of geocaching.com.au probably equals the owner of earthcaching.com which still hasn't had any other link to earthcache.org except that the contact person for earthcache.org is located in the same state in Australia (along with 6.6 million other people; nearly 1/3 of all of Australia's population). Right?

Correct.

I was actually trying to distance GeoAware from the earthcaching.com site by showing he doesn't appear to be the person behind it.

2.1k · February 11, 2005

Also, just so we're clear...the owner of geocaching.com.au probably equals the owner of earthcaching.com which still hasn't had any other link to earthcache.org except that the contact person for earthcache.org is located in the same state in Australia (along with 6.6 million other people; nearly 1/3 of all of Australia's population). Right?

Correct.

I was actually trying to distance GeoAware from the earthcaching.com site by showing he doesn't appear to be the person behind it.

Ok, good, agreed.

February 11, 2005

Okay. I understand juggler's opinion. Let's put that aside and go back on topic. I'll even drop 2 of my concerns just so we can stay focused. Then I found I can combine two of my points into one. Now, I have one statement that should be responded to, not 3 questions and 1 concern. We can come to the bits about language and approval process later:

* The person who does the work to create the cache should be the owner of the cache, not a third party. Earthcache.org is getting it's database filled up with quality work by volunteers for free. These earth virtuals should be the intellectual property of the people that developed them, not earthcache.org. It is not clear to people hiding these earth virtuals that their intellectual property will be taken by earthcache.org and not remain their own, unlike other geocaches. Earthcache.org is not a cache listing service like geocaching.com is. What is happening is that individuals are thinking they are listing a new cache. They get directed to a third party, which takes ownership of the new cache, and then that third party lists it on geocaching.com.

Although it is interesting all the connections that you can make between this site, geocaching.com.au and a consulting company in Sydney, the real meat of this discussion should be about ownership, responsibility, respect and ethics.

-Aaron

February 11, 2005

bump bump bump

VERY odd that there is no reply. Everyone out 'caching?

2.1k · February 11, 2005

The latest Earthcache approvals that I have seen, saxton, all say "by XYZ Cacher (via Earthcache Master)" or something similar.

I think prior entries showing geoaware as the owner were simply oversights in how the submission was being handled in the current procedure (since geoaware was submitting the info to Groundspeak after looking over the entry...so to GC.com, it looks like geoaware is the owner).

Problem solved?

February 11, 2005

You're incorrect. Read above. They're intentionally doing it. I e-mailed contact@Groundspeak as well and they have not responded.

-Aaron

1.6k · February 11, 2005

* The person who does the work to create the cache should be the owner of the cache, not a third party. Earthcache.org is getting it's database filled up with quality work by volunteers for free. These earth virtuals should be the intellectual property of the people that developed them, not earthcache.org. It is not clear to people hiding these earth virtuals that their intellectual property will be taken by earthcache.org and not remain their own, unlike other geocaches. Earthcache.org is not a cache listing service like geocaching.com is. What is happening is that individuals are thinking they are listing a new cache. They get directed to a third party, which takes ownership of the new cache, and then that third party lists it on geocaching.com.

Although it is interesting all the connections that you can make between this site, geocaching.com.au and a consulting company in Sydney, the real meat of this discussion should be about ownership, responsibility, respect and ethics.

-Aaron

I could be wrong, but I recall from a discussion I had with another Earthcache placer was that there has been some talk along the lines transfering 'ownership' of these caches to the persons who placed them. I'm not overly upset about not 'owning' our cache, but I would like the ability to edit content if necessary.

As for your question about getting permission from the land managers, I would think that since nothing is physically placed, and the land is open to the public, that permission would be somewhat implied. As for private land, they do require you to get permission just like any other type of cache.

As for Geoaware being in Australia....He's from Colorado, he just current lives in Australia.

Wulf

What Ever Happened To "earth Caches"

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