Charity Caching

[+Peaceable Rhino]

Here's the idea I shared in another thread.

 

You pick a popular location (e.g. Newport Pier, Venice Beach for Californios). Announce that on a given day at a certain block of time, you will be within 10 to 100 yards of the geocache location. Then you ask for sponsors, say $0.25 to $1.00 for every person who finds you. To demonstrate that they did, you ask that they have their picture taken with you and post it to the cache log.

 

I am thinking about organizing such an event as a benefit for a favorite charity such as Amnesty International or the Red Cross. Perhaps we could declare a weekend when several of us will do it, each of us choosing our own favorite charity. Then cachers could run around catching as many of us as they can.

 

Keystone thinks that this doesn't qualify as a Geocache or as an event. I merely ask in counterpoint whether the definition of a geocaching event could be loosened for the sake of this kind of exercise?

[+YuccaPatrol]

Maybe you can broaden your imagination to figure out a way to do it without altering the rules and guidelines.

 

For instance, you could hide a regular cache and make a small donation to your favorite cause for each cacher that signs the log in a given time period.

 

You would not be soliciting since you are making the donation yourself and if someone wanted to leave something in your cache for the charity, you can collect it when you go to check the log for signatures.

 

Although I am just one guy with an idea/opinion, some sort of win-win outcome should be possible

Edited October 7, 2004 by YuccaPatrol

[+Mopar]

I think the guidelines for event maybe need to be tightened, not loosened.

Allowing caches to solicit opens up a HUGE can of worms. First, since gc.com would be the ones hosting it, I would think there would be a perceived endorsement and responsibility, even if not a legal one. How does Jeremy make sure you actually donated the money to ABC charity? How does he ensure you (or someone else) doesn't just pocket the funds and claim the cache was stolen?

Would the reviewers need to research to see if it's even a legit charity? I must get at least 1 phone call or email a week asking me to donate to fictitious charities. Sometimes they are forwarded from friends or family members who failed to research what sounds like a good cause. Cachers are normal people. It would just be a matter of time before some cacher falls for this type of scam and decides to place a cache to unknowingly help out a scam charity.

Even worse, how do you define what is and what isn't an acceptable charity?

Amnesty International?

How about Green Peace?

How about Earth Liberation Front (ELF)?

Where (or if) do you draw the line?

[+Mopar]

Let me add this:

I'm not against people contributing to charities they feel are worthwhile. The reason for contributing should be to help out that cause, not to log a smiley on a geocache, or make sure everyone knows you contributed by logging the cache.

If you want to contribute to a cause, mail them a check. If you feel the need to include a note saying you decided to contribute to that cause because of your involvement in geocaching, go right ahead.

[+Renegade Knight]

Let me split the hair here. I agree with the rule for not listing caches that solicit. Having said that there are options to incorporate caching into fundraising activities. Locally I've volunteered to be involved in one of these activities.

 

A coupleof other comment. Asking Groundspeak first is the way to go on commercial caches. Maybe they would (or wouldn't) be willing to do something with one of those causes that is fairly univeral. This method is how we got project APE caches and Jeep TB's. My gut feeling is that Groundspeak is the way to go for a national event using their site, and your local organization is the way to go for a more local cause.

 

Idahogeocachers is starting to make a tradition of sponsoring people at christmas. It's informal and never leaves our own site but successful none the less.

[+briansnat]

Let me add this:

I'm not against people contributing to charities they feel are worthwhile. The reason for contributing should be to help out that cause, not to log a smiley on a geocache, or make sure everyone knows you contributed by logging the cache.

If you want to contribute to a cause, mail them a check. If you feel the need to include a note saying you decided to contribute to that cause because of your involvement in geocaching, go right ahead.

Thre are hundreds, if not thousands of worthy causes out there. By loosening restrictions it opens the gate for many of these kinds of caches, then where does it end?

Geocaching is meant to be a fun sport and not a vehicle for "doing good" (outside of CITO).

 

Besides what is a worthy charity for one person may not be one for another. One person may think Planned Parenthood is a wonderful cause, while another thinks they are a tool of the devil. Many think the Boy Scouts is a great organiztion while others wouldn't give them a penny. Even you mention Amnesty International and apparently think its a good cause, but a lot of people not thrilled with their politics.

 

I'm with Mopar on this. Lets keep Geocaching as a fun sport and if you want to donate to a favorite charity write them a check.

[+Keith Watson]

There is no way you can please everyone. My fist suggestion is arrange an event cache. By the rules it is a meeting of cachers not for the purpose of anything other than getting together. Post in the description that another event will be held after the meeting for those interested and provide a link to a web page not on gc.com, many free providers out there. On that page post what ever you want, gc.com has no control over it. That way you stay with in the rules of an event cache, and your other page can handle everything else.

[+briansnat]

There is no way you can please everyone. My fist suggestion is arrange an event cache. By the rules it is a meeting of cachers not for the purpose of anything other than getting together. Post in the description that another event will be held after the meeting for those interested and provide a link to a web page not on gc.com, many free providers out there. On that page post what ever you want, gc.com has no control over it. That way you stay with in the rules of an event cache, and your other page can handle everything else.

Unfortunatley the admin may delete the link if they think it amounts to a solicitation.

[+The Jester]

Besides what is a worthy charity for one person may not be one for another. One person may think Planned Parenthood is a wonderful cause, while another thinks they are a tool of the devil. Many think the Boy Scouts is a great organiztion while others wouldn't give them a penny. Even you mention Amnesty International and apparently think its a good cause, but a lot of people not thrilled with their politics.

If an event was approved dedicated to charity you don't like, then don't participate. Simple.

 

If it were listed as "my favorite charity" I'd be less likely to be involved without knowing what charity was involved.

[+fly46]

Oh, they'll delete the link, alright.

 

Personally, I like the idea, and I don't think that you have to make it a big donation to get the smiley... Crap, make it a quarter.

 

But, the site's not up to that, so we can't do it.

[Jeremy]

Keep the game light and fun. This was not meant to be an outlet for charity funding. We're not changing the policy.

[+Peaceable Rhino]

Yucca Patrol: a reasonable alternative.

 

Jester: Amen. There is no coercion here and no endorsement required from Groundspeak.com for what individuals choose to do. A model worth following could be blogathon.org.

 

Jeremy: That was hardly a light and fun answer.

 

It's sad that we can preach about picking up trash and saving the forests, but we can't mix emergency relief and the rights of prisoners of conscience everywhere (according to a universal standard, regardless of politics -- the AI organizers I know are just as incensed about Castro as they are about Pinochet) with this activity.

 

I see that the atmosphere here is too heavy-hearted for a little charity, so I will drop the issue here and now. I'll spend my time working with those who understand that fun and charity do mix. They have light hearts and eager smiles which is why I love to hang with them.

[Jeremy]

I'll spend my time working with those who understand that fun and charity do mix. They have light hearts and eager smiles which is why I love to hang with them.

I know, I know. I'm such a bad person.

[+fly46]

I'll spend my time working with those who understand that fun and charity do mix.  They have light hearts and eager smiles which is why I love to hang with them.

I know, I know. I'm such a bad person.

We may love you anyway.

 

I guess my whole issue with not allowing charity caches (not so much the event, but just a cache that would ask for, or even simply specify that, money left will go to charity) is that we allow caches in parks that require admittance fees.

We allow caches in newspaper boxes, which require 50cents to retrieve them, but we can't ask for optional money to be used for something good.

[Jeremy]

that we allow caches in parks that require admittance fees.

True. The money goes to the maintainence of the very park the cache is in. One hand washes the other.

 

We allow caches in newspaper boxes

 

We do? We shouldn't.

 

but we can't ask for optional money to be used for something good.

 

We don't know that. Why don't we just open the floodgates and let everything through? I'll have a Jeremy's Kids cache and you can put money in there for Jeremy's kids, k?

 

There are plenty of outlets for charity, but we decided long ago that geocaching was for the journey and adventure, not to raise cash or push forward someone's agenda. There's enough rulemongering going around without adding any more politics in this activity.

[+Dad and the Dynamic Duo]

Maybe you can broaden your imagination to figure out a way to do it without altering the rules and guidelines.

 

For instance, you could hide a regular cache and make a small donation to your favorite cause for each cacher that signs the log in a given time period.

 

You would not be soliciting since you are making the donation yourself and if someone wanted to leave something in your cache for the charity, you can collect it when you go to check the log for signatures.

 

Although I am just one guy with an idea/opinion, some sort of win-win outcome should be possible 

Our oldest cache that is still active may present an example of how it could be done. The response from the Geocaching community has been nothing but positive and the wildlife center has been happy to receive over $600 in 2 years.

 

An interesting side note is that this cache has not degraded one bit since it was set up in May, 2002. I don't know if it has anything to do with the contributions or not but it has been a pleasant surprise.

 

George

[+Peaceable Rhino]

I guess my whole issue with not allowing charity caches (not so much the event, but just a cache that would ask for, or even simply specify that, money left will go to charity) is that we allow caches in parks that require admittance fees.

We allow caches in newspaper boxes, which require 50cents to retrieve them, but we can't ask for optional money to be used for something good.

 

You made me change my mind, fly. Your optimism and that of other posters makes me think it is worth discussing further. It's worth our while to attempt to infect Jeremy etc. with it and ease their concerns, some of which are valid.

 

Yes, I see the same problem. Furthermore, plenty of people already politicize caches with what they leave or offer in the cache. When you leave any kind of national flag in a cache or an object with a nationalist slogan, you've politicized the cache. (I avoid leaving such objects myself.)

 

Religion also rides in caches. I've seen, for example, a New Testament with a Travel Bug attached to it. The whole purpose is to spread the faith. (It has, incidentally, disappeared according to the last report.) I don't personally object but others might glow red at the sight of it. (It does have a red cover.) To them, I would say respect the cache and the hitchhiker. Don't steal it. Don't mar it. If you don't want it, don't take it.

 

Which is in perfect keeping with the spirit of Geocaching.

 

I won't be knowingly leaving such material in other caches or removing it so other's can't have it. (I would remove physically harmful material, such as a pack of matches left in a forest cache, however. I'd call a bomb squad for a stick of dynamite. ) Before I set up any cache which deviates from the present rules, I'll make sure that the rules have changed first. Which is more than you can say for some of the objects being sent around.

 

I understand Jeremy's "endorsement" fears, but as a clearinghouse of information all Geocaching need do is post a disclaimer. Geocaching is fun and adding charity to it makes it no less fun is the point here. For many of us, the fact of a good cause gives us extra energy to cross those miles. If you don't want to help out, no one is forcing you to do it any more than anyone is forcing you to buy a GPS and geocache if you don't like the outdoors. The ethic here for the cache-creator is that he/she is up front about the cache contents.

 

If they don't want to run the event themselves, that is one thing. But refusing to post the links for charity caching as some have implied here is another kettle of fish. It's going too far.

 

The problem here is people are thinking like lawyers, perhaps without consulting one. And why make more work for yourselves policing the caches for material which is not in itself harmful? One poster asks "But where does it stop?" You can stop it for yourself anytime by not going to that cache. A review of the logs alone should tell you if such material exists in a cache. A special category for charity caches could be set up for those who don't want to take part.

 

There is one problem, however, that I think bears serious consideration: how do we make sure that the money goes to the charity? The reason why I suggested the system that I did (and Yucca's system also works) is that you can ask your sponsors to write a check directly to that charity. That might be a reasonable rule to require for such caches. It beats leaving spare change in the cache. I don't know anyone named "Red Cross". Do you?