When You (don't) Find A Cache In Trouble...

1.9k · November 29, 2004

If you find a cache that is severely damaged(beyond repair), OR missing, what do you think is appropriate?

1) Post a SBA log?

2) Ignore it and hope the owner checks on it?

3) Email the cache owner and just let other cachers continue to seek the missing cache untill the owner receives their email and disables the cache.

4) Post a DNF

In my book posting the SBA log is appropriate in this situation. The owner gets notified. They can respond on the page with a note that says "hey, I'll fix it." if they want to do so. It alerts other cachers of the problem so they don't wast their time looking for a MIA cache.

A SBA log is NOT A death axe on a cache. Just a serious warning about the condition of the cache or lack there of.

What do you think?

5.3k · November 29, 2004

I think SBA sounds too harsh and some cache owners are offended by it. Others are scared to use it because it shoulds too critical. I think it was Markwell who recently suggested renaming it "Cache Needs Attention" or something similar.

Edited November 29, 2004 by Stunod

1.9k · November 29, 2004

I think SBA sounds too harsh and some cache owners are offended by it.

Gee, I didn't realize that. :lol:

Well it seems the correct course of action to me even if it is slightly harsh until there is a better solution. I do think though that the Needs Attention idea wold be good.

November 29, 2004

I usually log a DNF or a note to warn the owner that there is some kind of problem with the cache. If the cache has more than 3 DNFs or notes in a row about the problem I will log SBA. That is how I play the game. A DNF/note allows the owner to get out there and fix it while a SBA sends a notice to the approvers that the cache needs archived. If all the cache needs is maintenance, telling someone to archive it is kinda mean.

My opinion though.

-Jennifer

1.9k · November 29, 2004

If all the cache needs is maintenance, telling someone to archive it is kinda mean.

I'm not talking maintance. More like a whole redo because the cache is GONE or totally destroyed.

8.4k · November 29, 2004

How do YOU know it's missing? :lol: That is for the owner to determine after a few consecutive no finds.

If I don't find a cache then I post a DNF. I make NO assumptions unless it's a cache with several DNF's.

If it's damaged, or otherwise trashed, I usually come prepared to do repairs, replace a wet log book and such. I mark it as found sometimes (but not always) letting it be known that I made some repairs and move on......

I ONLY post an SBA log on caches that I have found already or have someone in the party that can verify it's gone from a previous find......

1.9k · November 29, 2004

I ONLY post an SBA log on caches that I have found already or have someone in the party that can verify it's gone from a previous find......

That is how I do it. Only if I or another with me has found it and can 100% be certain of where it WAS and it just hasn't been moved.

1.3k · November 29, 2004

If you find a cache that is severely damaged(beyond repair), OR missing, what do you think is appropriate?

1) Post a SBA log?

2) Ignore it and hope the owner checks on it?

3) Email the cache owner and just let other cachers continue to seek the missing cache untill the owner receives their email and disables the cache.

4) Post a DNF

In my book posting the SBA log is appropriate in this situation. The owner gets notified. They can respond on the page with a note that says "hey, I'll fix it." if they want to do so. It alerts other cachers of the problem so they don't wast their time looking for a MIA cache.

A SBA log is NOT A death axe on a cache. Just a serious warning about the condition of the cache or lack there of.

What do you think?

If I find the cache and it's damaged, I post a find and tell the condition of the cache in the log. If I can repair the damage, I do so. If not (damaged container, for example) I do not - but like I said I put this in the find log.

If the I don't find the cache, I post a DNF. It's not missing just because you didn't find it.

If the cache is trashed and it's obvious the owner hasn't been on the website in a long time, then I'd post a SBA.

I rarely use that log, and from what I've seen most geocachers rarely use it. I'd be pissed if somebody posted that on one of my caches when they could have just as easily posted a find, dnf, or note. Just because it's messed up or even missing doesn't mean it should be archived.

The contents of a log are just as important as the type. You don't have to post a SBA to get your point across, and I agree it definetly seems harsh to many. It would to me. SBA, to me, means that the cache needs to be removed and unlisted. It doesn't mean the cache needs maintainence. I'm fairly sure that's how most of the folks in my area view the log as well.

I've heard there's a new "needs maintainence" log in the works. I hope that's not just a rumor.

southdeltan

November 29, 2004

If all the cache needs is maintenance, telling someone to archive it is kinda mean.

I'm not talking maintance. More like a whole redo because the cache is GONE or totally destroyed.

New container is maintenance. If my cache is gone and I only have to replace it fully, why archive it when I can just replace it. Send me a note or DNF and I would check and maintain. While some folks don't, most will. But if the area itself is not the problem and (like under construction or now private or has no trespassing signs posted now) then a note/DNF is all it should need. If it continues to collect them and passes three (my magic number) then a SBA is what I would post.

-Jennifer

8.4k · November 29, 2004

I ONLY post an SBA log on caches that I have found already or have someone in the party that can verify it's gone from a previous find......

That is how I do it. Only if I or another with me has found it and can 100% be certain of where it WAS and it just hasn't been moved.

Hmmmmm, I don't know what to say to help you restore local harmony then.

I usually take the path of least resistance in these cases avoiding behaviors that haven't worked in the past for my own piece of mind. Maybe there's more to the story......

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Using that log is not something I get joy in doing. It just seems to be the only way with some cachers to get their attention about a missing/destroyed cache.

I am all for helping with maintenance, but sometimes it just isn't possible.

1.3k · November 29, 2004

Using that log is not something I get joy in doing. It just seems to be the only way with some cachers to get their attention about a missing/destroyed cache.

I am all for helping with maintenance, but sometimes it just isn't possible.

Why do I get the feeling that this is a local problam that should be handled on a regional board here at GC.com or a private regional forum?

sd

1.9k · November 29, 2004

I usually take the path of least resistance in these cases avoiding behaviors that haven't worked in the past for my own piece of mind.

Maybe I'll just ignore caches with a problem and let others deal with it in the future. Maybe don't post DNF's SBA's or Notes anymore, only post "Found It, #x of xx for the day great cache." while ignoring that the logbook was soaked, the box was cracked and all the mctoys were scattered around the area as if the cache had been raided by a preschooler who doesn't pickup toys.

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Why do I get the feeling that this is a local problam that should be handled on a regional board here at GC.com or a private regional forum?

I wanted to get a feel for how the REST of the caching community handles this sort of problem. I never mentioned a specific problem, person or situation because it is NOT meat to be about a specific problem.

8.4k · November 29, 2004

I usually take the path of least resistance in these cases avoiding behaviors that haven't worked in the past for my own piece of mind.

Maybe I'll just ignore caches with a problem and let others deal with it in the future. Maybe don't post DNF's SBA's or Notes anymore, only post "Found It, #x of xx for the day great cache." while ignoring that the logbook was soaked, the box was cracked and all the mctoys were scattered around the area as if the cache had been raided by a preschooler who doesn't pickup toys.

Did I actually say that much???

You know that your perceived problems are with certain cachers and not ALL caches.

For the sake of your OWN sanity and maybe theirs too; Dude, IGNOR them. Them and THEIR caches not ALL caches, but you already knew what I meant.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Hmmmmmmmmm. :lol:

Edited November 29, 2004 by Snoogans

38.2k · November 29, 2004

A SBA log is NOT A death axe on a cache. Just a serious warning about the condition of the cache or lack there of.

What do you think?

You're correct to a point. I think however that an active cache owner would appreciate a log (DNF, or Found It) mentioning the condition that needs attention and be given a chance to correct it before a SBA is logged. The owner will see your log and hopefully take action. Its only after they refuse to take action (i.e. abandoned the cache) that I would consider logging a SBA. I only use the SBA option if I feel that the cache really needs to be archived.

1.3k · November 29, 2004

Why do I get the feeling that this is a local problam that should be handled on a regional board here at GC.com or a private regional forum?

I wanted to get a feel for how the REST of the caching community handles this sort of problem. I never mentioned a specific problem, person or situation because it is NOT meat to be about a specific problem.

Fair enough, you didn't. I saw some references in another thread - then this thread, and your comment about "some geocachers" kinda struck me as odd.

---

However, people are responding.

From the few messages I've seen, SBA seems to be the last resort option.

Just because the logbook is soaked doesn't mean the cache needs to be archived. Hell, the container COULD actually be missing - it can be replaced.

If somebody posted an SBA log to one of my caches that just needs maintanence, I'd take offense at it. If you need to tell me I need to do maintainence, post a find if you found it, a dnf if you didn't find it - or a note if you can't deal with it.

If there's actually a reason the cache needs to be archived (private property signs, construction, somebody told you to get out, etc) that's another thing.

Post a log, give people time to repair it. Not everybody can rush out.

southdeltan

1.9k · November 29, 2004

I usually take the path of least resistance in these cases avoiding behaviors that haven't worked in the past for my own piece of mind.

Maybe I'll just ignore caches with a problem and let others deal with it in the future. Maybe don't post DNF's SBA's or Notes anymore, only post "Found It, #x of xx for the day great cache." while ignoring that the logbook was soaked, the box was cracked and all the mctoys were scattered around the area as if the cache had been raided by a preschooler who doesn't pickup toys.

Did I actually say that much???

You know that your percieved problems are with certain cachers and not ALL caches.

For the sake of your OWN sanity and maybe theirs too. Dude, IGNOR them. Them and THEIR caches not ALL caches, but you already knew what I meant.

Yeah I know what you mean, but maybe my solution is the PC thing to do

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

pretty funny huh

November 29, 2004

I would be MAD if you posted a SBA on my cache and it was the first log to show a problem. Log a dnf or a note and give them time to fix it.

If it violates the rules then log a SBA, but it might be a courtesy to notify the owner first.

Would you like a warning on speeding first or just a big fat ticket?

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Would you like a warning on speeding first or just a big fat ticket?

I generally figure if you are speeding that you deserve that ticket.

Sometimes contacting the owner is not the answer, for any number of reasons which I am not going into because I think you can think of them yourself.

November 29, 2004

Can't think of ANY reasons not to contact the owner unless you are afraid of them finding out who wanted to SBA their cache.

And you didn't answer "would you like a warning or a big fat ticket"!

November 29, 2004

BTW I like your new avatar.

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Can't think of ANY reasons not to contact the owner unless you are afraid of them finding out who wanted to SBA their cache.

And you didn't answer "would you like a warning or a big fat ticket"!

I would like a warning, BUT would EXPECT to get a "big fat ticket"

and since you can't think of any reasons here is one, a cache owner has ignored emails about problems with caches, MAYBE not because they ignore them but maybe they have an over aggressive spam filter and never get you message, or some other reason that is totally plausible for why they don't respond. Also when you post a SBA log it has you name on it, so that doesn't work as a theory.

November 29, 2004

Ok so you would like a warning!

It seems like you gave a warning but because either they ignored the warning or set their spam filter warnings too high then a more agressive step may be needed like an SBA.

In this case I would say SBA.

btw I have never done a sba or had on on my caches so I didn't know that your name is attached to it. thanks for that bit of info.

6.5k · November 29, 2004

If all the cache needs is maintenance, telling someone to archive it is kinda mean.

I'm not talking maintance. More like a whole redo because the cache is GONE or totally destroyed.

I would be hessiate to assume a cache is gone because I couldn't find it :lol:

8.4k · November 29, 2004

I generally figure if you are speeding that you deserve that ticket.

Hey,

IMO (nothing humble about it) Speed limits are suggestions unless the fuzz are around. That doesn't make me a bad person.

Just another reason not to impose your standards on another person:

Self appointed fuzz account for many victims in freeway shootings. It happens every day. Self appointed fuzz says to himself "HEY! That's the last so & so who passes ME on the shoulder!" and takes the law into his OWN hands getting lead poisoning for his trouble.

Take the same situation and self appointed fuzz holds up a heart attack victim from the next exit where they were going to seek help, but hey, self appointed fuzz has piece of mind. :lol:

So I blow your doors off doing 85 in a 60 mph zone...... What's it to ya?....

I recently had a guy try to kill me on Hwy 90. (2 lane hwy.) All I did was try to pass him. He was the second car ahead of me and refused to let me in, so I passed the next 2 cars ahead of him easily getting back on the safe side of the road before the double yellow line. That wasn't good enough for him. This guy decided to get behind me and glue his bumper to my rear for 25 miles scaring the holy heck outta me because I tried several times to get him to pass me by going onto the shoulder. I had my gun on the seat and if this guy had wrecked me and come after me he was going to get a few holes in his shirt for self defense. (FYI- I would have been No Billed too.)

This does equate to geocaching if you think about it as a parable. There's always MORE to the story. You only heard MY side.

Edited November 29, 2004 by Snoogans

November 29, 2004

Quote:

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Quote:

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I'll pass that along.

1.1k · November 29, 2004

If I find a damaged cache or can't find the container at all I post a DNF. I think that's the appropriate thing to do. I have posted SBA logs twice. Once when returning to a cache that I had previously found to retrieve a travel bug. Due to storm damage several no tresspassing signs were posted in the area so I felt this needed to be brought to the attention of the cache owner and local approvers immediately. The second time was after I spent 45 minutes or so explaining Geocaching to the College Park, GA police officers and they allowed me to move the cache to a new location instead of removing it completely. In my SBA post I stated that the cache didn't need to be archived but did require immediate attention because the cache had been moved and the coordinates needed to be updated on the cache page.

Personally I don't see SBA logs as any big deal. I think they are appropriate when the cache in question needs immediate attention.

1.2k · November 29, 2004

Wow...so much to comment on!

I posted a DNF and a SBA on a cache while on vacation last week.

The cache was a micro that should have been easy to find. The difficulty was a 1-star, and the hint was specific to the containers exact location.

After my group couldn't find it, I logged a DNF. There was 2 prior DNFs (logged as notes) on the same cache.

The cache had not been found in several attempts over 5 weeks. The onwer had not logged a cache in 2 years, and had not logged in to gc.com in months.

I sent an email to the owner, and posted a SBA. The local reviewer disabled the cache the same day, and posted a note on the cache:

__________________________________________

November 24 by Moun10Bike (2461 found)

This cache appears to be missing. I'm temporarily disabling it to give the owner the opportunity to check on the cache and, if necessary, repair it. Cache owner, if you feel that you will not be able to repair this in a timely manner (within a month), then please archive it or contact me through the site. If I do not receive a response or no log is made to indicate that maintenance has been done, then we will unfortunately need to archive this listing.

Thank you,

Moun10Bike

Geocaching.com admin.

_____________________________________________

A far as concerns over laws being "suggestions" and ignoring them when the police ain't around...I'll hold my tongue.

Lets just say "Ethics is how you act when no one is looking".

Ed

November 29, 2004

If I find a damaged cache container, I make it a point to nofity the owner of the condition of the cache. If I can make a simple repair to the cache, then I will do it and let the owner know.

I've gone to a couple of caches where I had to replace all of the items into plastic baggies.

In regards to a missing or lost cache, how do you really know it's missing or lost, maybe you DNF it, so I would post a DNF, then if there are several DNF's then the owner should be notified that the cache maybe missing.

November 29, 2004

I'm a new to geocaching, so am not up on the lingo.

What is a SBA log? And why is it considered heavy-handed punishment?

HWyatt, :lol:

working on a steep learning curve

6.5k · November 29, 2004

If you find a cache that is severely damaged(beyond repair), OR missing, what do you think is appropriate?

1) Post a SBA log?

2) Ignore it and hope the owner checks on it?

3) Email the cache owner and just let other cachers continue to seek the missing cache untill the owner receives their email and disables the cache.

4) Post a DNF

There is no one blanket answer to a blanket question; as apparent from the earlier replies to this OP.

If the cache has been found recently, or just hasn't been found in a while and I can't find it-#4, and maybe #3.

If there have been several DNF's posted prior to mine then definitely #4, and #3.

If I find evidence of a damaged cache that I can fix, ( you mean you cache without replacement containers, log sheets, and swag in your pack or car)

I will repair it to the best of my ability, log the find and #3.

If I cannot repair it then I didn't find it so again-#4 and #3.

I would never pull a #2, and oly in the most extreme situations #1-perhaps if I found scant artifacts of a long ago damaged/destroyed cache and it was apparant the the cache owner hasn't been active for a long time-six months at the minimum.

Ralann-you claim this is a generic question with no relevance to a local situation, yet as SD pointed out one of your posts does refer to "other cachers" and this issues did arise in another thread. There is no problem with starting a new thread to address an issue that may have been a digression from another thread, or even a better way of restating something started in a locked thread.

I recently did that myself, and with the blessing of the approver who locked my thread. The new thread is much improved and has generated some very interesting replies.

But don't act innocent and think that the regualrs in here have a short term memory disorder. :lol:

20.7k · November 29, 2004

I'm a new to geocaching, so am not up on the lingo.

What is a SBA log? And why is it considered heavy-handed punishment?

HWyatt,

working on a steep learning curve

SBA is short for 'Should Be Archived'. This type of log flags the cache for review by an approver for archival.

I agree that this log type should not be used for caches that simply need maintenance. Some of the best caches I've found are those that the owners have dropped off the map, but the community has adopted the cache.

Also, caches archived in this manner have a tendency to turn into geolitter. I've removed two caches that were abandoned for over a year due to the owner losing interest and the caches getting archived.

2.1k · November 29, 2004

Well, figured I might was well chime in.

My personal view, is that unless you have compelling evidence to the contrary, a DNF is just that, a DNF. I have posted, I *think* two SBA logs. In one case I found a patch of dead grass at the given coordinates, the exact shape of the described cache container, further the owner had been absent for some time.

Another one, I posted a DNF log, and tried to contact the owner. Got no reply from the owner, and I conferred with another cacher who had found the cache. I was looking in the right place, but no cache was there. I then posted a SBA.

As far as a damaged cache goes, I'll post it as found, but include details as to the state of the cache.

As pre-requisites to a SBA log I would say:

1. There has to be a VERY high degree of confidence that the cache is not at the posted coordinates.

2. The cache owner must for whatever reason be unreachable.

If the cache is simply damaged, there is always the oportunity for someone to else to repair it.

If the cache is simply missing, the owner may well choose to replace it.

If I find a cache to be missing that I have found before, and the owner is available for maintenance, I just post a note to the log.

Just my 2 cents.

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Ralann-you claim this is a generic question with no relevance to a local situation, yet as SD pointed out one of your posts does refer to "other cachers" and this issues did arise in another thread.

<snip>

But don't act innocent and think that the regualrs in here have a short term memory disorder.

Actually it is a generic question with real world happenings.

I didn't claim that this didn't happen, just that this wasn't what the thread was about. The thread is about the topic in general, NOT my situation. I wanted to keep things peaceful by not making it into a specific situation, but rather a discussion of the topic in general.

3.1k · November 29, 2004

Wouldn't it be really simple, especially with a micro, to just replace the container and/or add a logsheet inside of it?

I know a local cacher who appears to take delight in hitting that SBA button instead of taking a moment of their time to replace the film canister and logsheet. Imagine that, you drive across town to check on a cache that you've already found and then click SBA instead of acting like the rest of the cachers in the area by replacing the logsheet or container.

For some cachers that SBA button is their little power trip.

1.9k · November 29, 2004

Wouldn't it be really simple, especially with a micro, to just replace the container and/or add a logsheet inside of it?

Not if you don't have one of the correct size.

For some cachers that SBA button is their little power trip.

I really doubt that anybody is that way.

6.4k · November 29, 2004

As pre-requisites to a SBA log I would say:
1. There has to be a VERY high degree of confidence that the cache is not at the posted coordinates.

2. The cache owner must for whatever reason be unreachable.

If the cache is simply damaged, there is always the oportunity for someone to else to repair it.

If the cache is simply missing, the owner may well choose to replace it.

If I find a cache to be missing that I have found before, and the owner is available for maintenance, I just post a note to the log.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with this 110%, but I would add:

3. If you are POSITIVE that the cache should not be there, hit the SBA. I don't mean it shouldn't be there because you don't like it. I mean because there are brand new no trespassing signs, or the bomb squad blew it up while the cops were handcuffing you, or the cache looks like 3 sticks of dynamite taped to a RR bridge in a National Park.

Wouldn't it be really simple, especially with a micro, to just replace the container and/or add a logsheet inside of it?

Maybe it's simple, and maybe it's nice, but it's still the cache owner's responsibility. There is no way a cache owner should ever EXPECT cache finders to maintain the cache for them. It's great when it happens, and I'm always thankful when people do it for me, and I always try to return the favor, but I would never count on someone else maintaining my caches for me, or get angry that they didn't.

Edited November 29, 2004 by Mopar

1.3k · November 29, 2004

I mean because there are brand new no trespassing signs, or the bomb squad blew it up while the cops were handcuffing you, or the cache looks like 3 sticks of dynamite taped to a RR bridge in a National Park.

rofl!!! :lol:

Wouldn't it be really simple, especially with a micro, to just replace the container and/or add a logsheet inside of it?

Maybe it's simple, and maybe it's nice, but it's still the cache owner's responsibility. There is no way a cache owner should ever EXPECT cache finders to maintain the cache for them. It's great when it happens, and I'm always thankful when people do it for me, and I always try to return the favor, but I would never count on someone else maintaining my caches for me, or get angry that they didn't.

I agree with Mopar. I wouldn't expect them to replace the container but I'd be happy if they would.

I WOULD expect them to give me time to replace the container. Just because it went missing doesn't mean I should archive the cache. Post a DNF or a Note, explain the situation and give me time. If I haven't fixed it after a reasonable amount of time (and this can vary, but I figure it's definetly less than 3 months unless something extraordinary has happened), then hit the SBA log.

sd

November 29, 2004

of the very few times I have found something that needs maintenance, I posted a find or dnf and emailed them.

3.1k · November 29, 2004

I agree with you guys. I would never expect someone to replace my container for me. I just get irritated with geeks using the SBA button when it would have been very easy to go out there and replace it, since they went out there to see if it were still around or not.

I mean this particular person drove across town after the cache got a single no find on it. They could have taken the time to bring a film canister with them, they knew it was a film canister. Or maybe they could have sent me an email letting me know.

But my expectations for some people have been too high. I'll expect way less in the future :lol:

This town is about 70 miles away from me. I have caching friends who've taken care of my caches in the past over there. I take care of their caches in my area. But the self appointed geocop loves to click that SBA button and I got pissed at him.

Still we don't prequalify cachers before they get a profile, so anyone can click those buttons.

7.2k · November 29, 2004

If you can't find it, post a DNF.

If you are the last in a long string of DNF's, post an SBA.

If you are a previous finder who checks on a cache and can't find it, post an SBA.

If you find the cache with serious maintenance issues and you are unable to repair it, post an SBA.

If you find a cache and it is unrepairable, post an SBA.

I always thought "Should Be Archived" meant "Should Be Archived," not "I want this cache archived right not." Basically, if it can't stand as a viable cache, well, it should be archived.

Owners, don't get all huffy that someone is informing you your cache has some serious issues. Just get out there and fix the thing. Then it will be "Shouldn't Be Archived."

1.9k · November 29, 2004

I mean this particular person drove across town after the cache got a single no find on it. They could have taken the time to bring a film canister with them, they knew it was a film canister.

Maybe the cacher in question lived near the cache and was just passing by and thought they would do a quick check. What do you do it you don't use a film camera? where do you get film canisters?

7.2k · November 29, 2004

where do you get film canisters?

Wal-Mart photo processing kiosk. Take all you want. Empties, of course.

Just make sure you ask first so the clerks know what you are doing. They even hand me a bag to carry more. It saves them from having to do it.

1.3k · November 29, 2004

I mean this particular person drove across town after the cache got a single no find on it. They could have taken the time to bring a film canister with them, they knew it was a film canister.

Maybe the cacher in question lived near the cache and was just passing by and thought they would do a quick check. What do you do it you don't use a film camera? where do you get film canisters?

Anywhere that film is developed? Most places are glad to give them away (even though they're supposed to recycle them).

sd

1.3k · November 29, 2004

Owners, don't get all huffy that someone is informing you your cache has some serious issues. Just get out there and fix the thing. Then it will be "Shouldn't Be Archived."

"Should be archived" means just that - it doesn't mean the cache needs maintanence - it means you need to remove the cache and de-list the cache.

If the cache needs maintainence, include that in your find or your dnf - or post a note. There's no reason to alert all of the approvers that a cache needs maintanence. As a cache hider, I'd appreciate the courtesy of somebody giving me a chance to repair the cache - not suggesting that I archive it.

HOPEFULLY, the "needs maintainence" log type isn't just a rumor and then this issue goes away.

southdeltan

1.5k · November 29, 2004

The Ladybug Kids post a DNF and follow up with an e-mail note to the owner with a description (sometimes with photos) of where we looked. Just two weeks ago, our note to the a cache owner confirmed a cache had been plundered and the owner inactivated the cache until he could replace it. I think the more information that can be shared with the owner, the better.

On the other hand, we've e-mailed cache owners about wet log books, etc., and several months later cachers are still logging that they found a wet log book. :lol:

Edited November 29, 2004 by Ladybug Kids

7.2k · November 29, 2004

"Should be archived" means just that - it doesn't mean the cache needs maintanence - it means you need to remove the cache and de-list the cache.

You are most certainly correct. If a cache is pretty much destroyed--container turned to mulch, log shreaded, trinkets chewed--I guess you could argue that's a "maintenance issue." Me, I'd say that's a no longer viable cache.

Besides, the log is only for the status of the cache at that point in time. It doesn't always mean the cache should be retired and no other cache put in it's place, does it? Nope.

Second, not everyone reads the logs before hunting a cache. A lot of time you only need to scan the caches log icons to get an idea of if it's worth hunting maintenance-wise. A lot of DNFs or a lot notes raises a red flag. A smilie pretty much says it good to go. So, if you find a cache and post a smilie, but the cache is in serious need of maintenance--like replacing--what does the smilie tell the person who only scans the log types?

Third, posting a note, shooting off an email and waiting for a response, well, means you have to wait. You have to monitor that cache. In the meantime, while you are waiting, other folks have the pleasure of hunting a cache that needs replacing. Is that fair to those other folks? I'd say not.

While just like replacing a container, it would be nice if another cacher monitors the status of your cache, I don't think you should expect them to. An SBA relieves them of that "duty."

So, by posting an SBA you alert the owner the cache has serious <---(note) maintenance issues, alerts potential finders of maintenance issues (so they can avoid what might be less than pleasurable experience), and you don't have to wait around monitoring someone else's cache.

Besides, I don't know of any reviewers who are so quick on the archive trigger to pull it over a maintenance issue until the owner has time to respond.

Plus, it's not as if they can't unarchive it if if passes muster.

HOPEFULLY, the "needs maintainence" log type isn't just a rumor and then this issue goes away.

Ditto. But, I'd still hold that known destroyed caches would warrant an SBA. Besides, you did trash it out, right?

What? You gonna make the owner go in and CITO it?

November 29, 2004

. A lot of DNFs or a lot notes raises a red flag. A smilie pretty much says it good to go. So, if you find a cache and post a smilie, but the cache is in serious need of maintenance--like replacing--what does the smilie tell the person who only scans the log types?

well it says there is something there to find. Does it matter what condition the cache is in. good condition or not it rates a smilie. and likely a temporary problem.

When You (don't) Find A Cache In Trouble...

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