[Admin]

For all monument recovery folks (a.k.a. Benchmarkers). I wanted to belatedly pass on this letter from the Director of the NGS, Charlie Challstrom. I hope this will become a key location for asking questions and discussing monument recovery for the NGS.

Jeremy

-----

December 7th, 2004
Charlie Challstrom,
Director, National Geodetic Survey

Dear Jeremy Irish,

It is my pleasure to encourage your establishment of a forum specifically for people interested in supporting the National Geodetic Survey’s (NGS) work. NGS is very appreciative of the work done by the many people who, on their own, search out our monuments and then submit updates to the National Spatial Reference System (NSRS) based on their findings. We recognize the importance and value of this work, and want to thank this dedicated community.

NGS looks forward to working with the Geocaching/Benchmark Hunting community to support these recovery efforts and the maintenance of the NSRS. It is our hope that this forum will be helpful in that regard and will serve as a means of communication between NGS and the Geocaching/Benchmark Hunting community.

Of course, this forum and the database of marks hosted at http://www.geocaching.com/ are not officially supported or endorsed by NGS, NOAA or the Department of Commerce. The official site for NGS information, including (but not limited to) datasheets, the NSRS and monument recovery is http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/.


Once again, thank you very much for your efforts to support NGS and the NSRS.

Sincerely,


Charlie Challstrom,
Director National Geodetic Survey

[caseyb]

Thank you Jeremy for providing us with this space.

I really hope that we here at NGS are able to form a better connection with the more involved benchmark hunters out there. We recognize that many "hunters" are just out doing it for fun, but that a number of you have a real interest in working with the NGS. It is for that reason this forum was created.

Lets make the best of it!

-Casey-

This post has been edited by caseyb: 08 February 2005 - 11:40 AM

[BilboB]

I hope this is a start of a beautiful relationship. I also hope this turns out to be useful, not useless. If I know the individuals that are going to be involved with this forum, it will definately be the former. Thanks alot.

[GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Thank you Jeremy and the NGS.
And fellow Benchmarkers
I was hoping this would happen.
It was a vision of the future to me just a few years ago,now it is the Future.

I know this will be a valuable communication forum and plan on,not only recovering all the NGS Benchmarks in My (AREA-DONE)and a few others.
And helping to maintaint them in the NGS Data base.
I have been working on photo's for the Blue Book,have not turned them in but will start soon.

I can remember to this day Benchmark Recovery #1.
And that (at that time)there were just a handfull of us(GEOCAC)Benchmarkers.
We have matured alot,and gained imeasurable knowlege.

Thanks again for everyone's support.
You do not realize the impact you have had on me and the NATION.

[Green Toad]

I thought about creating a new crossposted topic, but decided this was a better place (plus it doesn't create a new thread).

Just a note to the USGS/NOAA folks out there that are earning their civil service points by helping us "hobbyists" out. I've noticed that smilies have ended up in important discussions where they weren't intended. If you uncheck the "Enable emoticons?" box before posting your messages, then you will not have smilies corrupting your posts.

-stroh

[Surveying]

I would be great to be able to list found benchmarks out by some sort of query or search on either the Geocache page or the NGS web site. As a surveyor this would allow you to quickly see if recently found monuments would work for you verses having to search for others on the clients time and dollar.

[Black Dog Trackers]

Surveying -

On the Geocaching site, on the main Benchmark Hunting and FAQ page, click on "Other search options" near the top right to reach this page. Then click the "By Coordinates" radio button and enter coordinates of the area in which you're interested. Then you can see what benchmarks within the radius have recently been found by us 'geocachers'.

On the NGS site, you can similarly use their Radial Search page. It simply gives you all the datasheets for the search radius. To see a sorting of the datasheets by date, see the next paragraph.

If you want to get a specific report from the NGS data sorting by latest found data, you could try the technique I spelled out here in this old topic. It was written from the perspective of finding those marks that have not been recovered for a long time, but it would work almost as well to find the most recently found marks. This method would work for any collection of NGS datasheets, like either the results of the NGS radial search I just referenced above, or for a whole county that you'd download from the Yearly Archives page.

As far as I know, there is no way to make a nice report sorted by recent found date from the Geocaching site's data.

[rhelt100]

I would think that since our benchmarking work is helping out the NGS so much, that they would be willing to work with geocaching.com to get the benchmarking portion of the site up to date. The benchmarks haven't been updated in a few years if what I've read in the past is true.

[ArtMan]

rhelt100, on Dec 18 2006, 09:19 AM, said:

I would think that since our benchmarking work is helping out the NGS so much, that they would be willing to work with geocaching.com to get the benchmarking portion of the site up to date. The benchmarks haven't been updated in a few years if what I've read in the past is true.

The database at geocaching.com is now 5 years old or so, but I don't think this has anything to do with NGS, which makes its data freely available for the downloading. As is their right, Groundspeak, the company that runs the geocaching site, has chosen to pursue other activities (e.g. launching waymarking) despite frequent requests from many users for an updated benchmark database. This is one reason why serious benchmarkers will fetch a more current datasheet from the NGS website before heading out the door.

-ArtMan-

[shorbird]

ArtMan, on Dec 22 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

rhelt100, on Dec 18 2006, 09:19 AM, said:

I would think that since our benchmarking work is helping out the NGS so much, that they would be willing to work with geocaching.com to get the benchmarking portion of the site up to date. The benchmarks haven't been updated in a few years if what I've read in the past is true.

The database at geocaching.com is now 5 years old or so, but I don't think this has anything to do with NGS, which makes its data freely available for the downloading. As is their right, Groundspeak, the company that runs the geocaching site, has chosen to pursue other activities (e.g. launching waymarking) despite frequent requests from many users for an updated benchmark database. This is one reason why serious benchmarkers will fetch a more current datasheet from the NGS website before heading out the door.

-ArtMan-

Perhaps the previous poster was referring to the number of benchmarks which are out there, but not in the geocaching database. Those marks cannot be logged at geocaching.com, but if they are in the NGS database, you can still submit a report to them.

[b.saurosr]

ArtMan, on Dec 22 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

rhelt100, on Dec 18 2006, 09:19 AM, said:

I would think that since our benchmarking work is helping out the NGS so much, that they would be willing to work with geocaching.com to get the benchmarking portion of the site up to date. The benchmarks haven't been updated in a few years if what I've read in the past is true.

The database at geocaching.com is now 5 years old or so, but I don't think this has anything to do with NGS, which makes its data freely available for the downloading. As is their right, Groundspeak, the company that runs the geocaching site, has chosen to pursue other activities (e.g. launching waymarking) despite frequent requests from many users for an updated benchmark database. This is one reason why serious benchmarkers will fetch a more current datasheet from the NGS website before heading out the door.

-ArtMan-

Amen Brother!

[migeocache]

I'm fairly new to geocaching, but I love looking for benchmarks...they're usually in remote places. I have two questions:

1) Is the database at geocaching.com still 5 years old? ( I'm actually getting my benchmarks from http://www.ngs.noaa..../ds_archive.prl and displaying them using "Watcher" gpx software) That way I can find the ones closest to where I happen to be at the moment.

2) Are the finds, and "mark destroyed" reports I'm making to geocaching.com getting through to NGS?

[Wintertime]

Welcome to the forum, Mike. Are you originally from Michigan, but currently RVing in Oregon?

migeocache, on Oct 24 2008, 01:50 PM, said:

Is the database at geocaching.com still 5 years old?

No, it's now eight years old.

Quote

Are the finds, and "mark destroyed" reports I'm making to geocaching.com getting through to NGS?

Nope. Reporting the status of survey marks to the NGS is an entirely separate activity that requires a much higher degree of accuracy than posting a log on geocaching.com--especially when you want them to designate a mark destroyed. You can see further discussions about NGS reports in this forum and in the main Benchmark Hunting forum. (Mostly in the latter, since your initial questions are likely to be answerable by other benchmarkers and not require input from NGS representatives.)


Patty

This post has been edited by Wintertime: 25 October 2008 - 01:07 PM

[migeocache]

Wintertime, on Oct 25 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

Welcome to the forum, Mike. Are you originally from Michigan, but currently RVing in Oregon?

migeocache, on Oct 24 2008, 01:50 PM, said:

Is the database at geocaching.com still 5 years old?

No, it's now eight years old. :sad:

Quote

Are the finds, and "mark destroyed" reports I'm making to geocaching.com getting through to NGS?

Nope. Reporting the status of survey marks to the NGS is an entirely separate activity that requires a much higher degree of accuracy than posting a log on geocaching.com--especially when you want them to designate a mark destroyed. You can see further discussions about NGS reports in this forum and in the main Benchmark Hunting forum. (Mostly in the latter, since your initial questions are likely to be answerable by other benchmarkers and not require input from NGS representatives.)


Patty

Thanks for the response....I guess I'll have to become more involved, if my efforts are to bear any real fruit.

I'm originally from Snohomish, Washington, and we now full-time RV all over the continent....with diesel prices being what they've gotten too....we've been lurking near our children, who both live in NW Oregon. We're headed South in January. Legally, we are domiciled in Texas.

Is there an effort to update geocaching.com's data base?

[Wintertime]

migeocache, on Oct 26 2008, 12:34 AM, said:

[unneeded quoted text deleted]
Is there an effort to update geocaching.com's data base?

Not that we know of. Again, you can check for past postings about that in the other forum. This one is for questions to the NGS folks; the other one is where the general benchmark discussions happen.


Patty

[Benchmark Blasterz]

Hi! This question is for the NGS folks. Last week I was visiting the Little Rock AR capitol grounds looking for the benchmark EJ0276 which was located on the zero milestone in the E Capitol grounds. When I could not find the mark, I spoke to the Capitol Police and someone from the state historian's office. They told me that the zero milestone and its mark had been removed, either when the E grounds were renovated in 2004 or when a drunk drove up the steps into the flowerbed and damaged the grounds (depending on who you talked to).

There IS a mark within a few feet E of where the zero milestone used to be, in the E steps to the Capitol grounds. Its designation is "Little Rock Reset 2004." I have searched the actual NGS datasheets for this mark (even used the radial search feature), but a PID for this benchmark is not listed anywhere.

I have a picture, but being a newbie do not know how to upload it here.

What do I do now? Is it "found?" Thanks for any advice/insight!

LPC, one of the Benchmark Blasterz!!

[David Merrill]

Admin, on Feb 7 2005, 11:38 PM, said:

For all monument recovery folks (a.k.a. Benchmarkers). I wanted to belatedly pass on this letter from the Director of the NGS, Charlie Challstrom. I hope this will become a key location for asking questions and discussing monument recovery for the NGS.

Jeremy

-----

December 7th, 2004
Charlie Challstrom,
Director, National Geodetic Survey

Dear Jeremy Irish,

It is my pleasure to encourage your establishment of a forum specifically for people interested in supporting the National Geodetic Survey’s (NGS) work. NGS is very appreciative of the work done by the many people who, on their own, search out our monuments and then submit updates to the National Spatial Reference System (NSRS) based on their findings. We recognize the importance and value of this work, and want to thank this dedicated community.

NGS looks forward to working with the Geocaching/Benchmark Hunting community to support these recovery efforts and the maintenance of the NSRS. It is our hope that this forum will be helpful in that regard and will serve as a means of communication between NGS and the Geocaching/Benchmark Hunting community.

Of course, this forum and the database of marks hosted at http://www.geocaching.com/ are not officially supported or endorsed by NGS, NOAA or the Department of Commerce. The official site for NGS information, including (but not limited to) datasheets, the NSRS and monument recovery is http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/.


Once again, thank you very much for your efforts to support NGS and the NSRS.

Sincerely,


Charlie Challstrom,
Director National Geodetic Survey

Would this be a thread to wonder what happened to the marker on the summit of Mount Herman north of Colorado Springs, Colorado? I think it was around Easter of 2002 that somebody took a sledge hammer to it. I think I may have been up there within a day or two of the marker's removal/vandalism but what always keeps me thinking about that incident is that there are still two markers pointing to the main marker. They sit to the North and to the West - markers with arrows pointing to the main marker.

I ponder and ponder and cannot figure out what kind of vandals climb the 1.5 miles with a heavy sledge hammer and leave the two "arrow" markers only a few feet from the main marker they came to destroy?



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Wintertime]

Hi, David.

I doubt that the NGS would know why that disk was destroyed. You could try asking on the Benchmark Hunting forum, although likely no one there will know either. I don't think there are any NGS people reading this forum regularly, so that's why there's little traffic here. Sometimes they pop up on the BH forum.

I zoomed in on this page:

http://benchmarks.sc...lms.com/CO.html

and discovered that the mark has the NGS PID of KK1653. You can read the reports about it from geocachers at:

http://www.geocachin...aspx?PID=KK1653

The NGS page about it is here:

http://www.ngs.noaa....l?PidBox=KK1653

but the last report was in 1953.

Please feel free to join us over in the Benchmark Hunting forum!


Patty

This post has been edited by Wintertime: 31 January 2009 - 10:26 PM

[ronnesti]

David -

Would you be the same David Merrill that was a Surveyor fo the 1381st in the sixties at Grand Forks/Minot?

Regards,

Ron Nesti

[migeocache]

Wintertime, on Oct 26 2008, 09:40 AM, said:

migeocache, on Oct 26 2008, 12:34 AM, said:

[unneeded quoted text deleted]
Is there an effort to update geocaching.com's data base?

Not that we know of. Again, you can check for past postings about that in the other forum. This one is for questions to the NGS folks; the other one is where the general benchmark discussions happen.


Patty

[migeocache]

Do finds of NGS (and other) benchmarks that we record in geocaching.com's database....or Waymarking.com's database ever make it to the NSRS database that's mentioned in the letter?

[Manville Possum Hunters]

migeocache, on Aug 30 2010, 08:26 AM, said:

Do finds of NGS (and other) benchmarks that we record in geocaching.com's database....or Waymarking.com's database ever make it to the NSRS database that's mentioned in the letter?

I also have the same question, as I have recovered BM's listed on the Waymarking site.

[foxtrot_xray]

migeocache, on Aug 30 2010, 09:26 AM, said:

Do finds of NGS (and other) benchmarks that we record in geocaching.com's database....or Waymarking.com's database ever make it to the NSRS database that's mentioned in the letter?

The long answer - No.
The short answer - Since the NGS (division of NOAA) is a gov't entity, they don't have the time or resources to copy our recoveries and put them into their system. On top of that, many, MANY of the 'found' recoveries here are incorrect, and for the ones that ARE correct, they're unprofessional. :/

[Manville Possum Hunters]

foxtrot_xray, on Sep 29 2010, 10:32 AM, said:

migeocache, on Aug 30 2010, 09:26 AM, said:

Do finds of NGS (and other) benchmarks that we record in geocaching.com's database....or Waymarking.com's database ever make it to the NSRS database that's mentioned in the letter?

The long answer - No.
The short answer - Since the NGS (division of NOAA) is a gov't entity, they don't have the time or resources to copy our recoveries and put them into their system. On top of that, many, MANY of the 'found' recoveries here are incorrect, and for the ones that ARE correct, they're unprofessional. :/

Would you care to explain why you think that they are incorrect and unprofessional? I checked your profile and it seems that you may know what you are talking about. Give me some professional input that I may be able to use to better record unlisted benchmarks that I find, I have some that are not listed yet.

Reguards,
Manville.

[foxtrot_xray]

Manville Possum Hunters, on Sep 29 2010, 01:41 PM, said:

Would you care to explain why you think that they are incorrect and unprofessional? I checked your profile and it seems that you may know what you are talking about. Give me some professional input that I may be able to use to better record unlisted benchmarks that I find, I have some that are not listed yet.

Reguards,
Manville.

Well, while I appreciate it, I'm only a good actor when it comes to looking like I know what I'm talking about. I've been benchmark hunting for a long while now, but it's a hobby to me - others on here, specifically one from NY, they're sold their soul to the devil to have fun with it.

Check here - there was just a recent conversation in the Benchmarking forum regarding logging to the NGS. It was mostly about reporting coordinates, and you'll find many different opinions in there..