Multiple Found It logs logging

[kartovo]

Hello,

multiple Found It-logs logging is allowed. Why?

Shouldn't it be disabled?

 

Every cache should be logged only once with Found it log, right?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Don't believe that it was ever disallowed. Why....?

[Moun10Bike]

Not a bug...moving to the feature discussions forum.

[+Panther&Pine]

Hello,

multiple Found It-logs logging is allowed. Why?

Shouldn't it be disabled?

 

Every cache should be logged only once with Found it log, right?

The locationless caches can be logged more than once.

I'd like to see a warning.

Often when you see tons of found it's the cacher uses a phone.

[+Beach_hut]

Plus there are many grandfathered caches that can be logged from multiple locations, such as the Ye Ole Survey Monuments series, that can be logged with owner's permission.

[+niraD]

As mentioned, there are exceptions to the "one log per GC code" principle, for example:

- Grandfathered traveling caches (logged multiple times as long as someone else moved it since you hid it)

- Events in a few areas (where people log the event once for each temporary event cache they found)

- Some owners allow previous finders to re-find a cache after they have changed its location

- A few other rare types of grandfathered caches

 

See also:

[sUGGESTION] Pop Up Alert For Duplicate Found Entry

[+T.D.M.22]

Some people may not care. I find a cache by myself I can log it. Then I show my GF geocaching and we find it I can log it again. Then I find it when I am with TeamXYZ.they log it and I log it a third time.

 

As mentioned Ye Ole Survey Monuments, and it's sister Brass Cap Cache-Which are the UK and (Alberta) Canada version of benchmarks-Outforthehunt will move these virtuals to a new monument/cap and you can log it again, and again.

Or it could be cachers that don't care about the logs. They just place and maintain the physical cahce.

[AZcachemeister]

Some people may not care. I find a cache by myself I can log it. Then I show my GF geocaching and we find it I can log it again. Then I find it when I am with TeamXYZ.they log it and I log it a third time.

 

 

 

Makes about as much sense as logging another find because you were wearing a different color underwear.

 

But, if that toots your horn...

[+tozainamboku]

Multiple found it logs were originally allowed because there were a few cache types for which this made sense. For example moving caches and the old locationless type. There are still some moving caches and also a few grandfathered virtuals where multiple logging makes sense (sort of a cross between a virtual and a locationless cache).

 

In addition some areas adopted the practice of using the same page for recurring events. In those cases, the event may be attended more than once.

 

Because the system allowed for multiple find logs there are some other uses that developed regionally and may not be seen as acceptable in other areas. For example allowing extra finds as a bonus for completing a challenge or for finding a temporary cache or one not listed on geocaching.com. There are also some multi-cache owners who chose to allow a find for each stage of multi-cache found.

 

I believe that Groundspeak does not view the find count as a score, and while they may see some uses of the found it log as going beyond what was originally intended, they prefer to simply allow it.

 

Most multiple logs occur because someone made a mistake or was simply unaware they could select a different log type (Write Note) if they revisited a cache to leave a travel bug or for some other reason. There may be some reason why a single account may want to use multiple find logs however. Since the find count is not a score, it seems silly to get one's knickers in a twist over this happening occasionally.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

Understand that there are some ancient reasons for logging multiple finds for the same cache. And, there may even be a few current reasons (I can't think of any). But with the advent of smartphones, the number of duplicate Found It logs has greatly increased. And it isn't readily apparent to the cacher that his phone double(or more) logged it. Perhaps it's time for a programming change.....

 

Identify all new caches as "Single Find Only". Then allow the CO to trip a switch during the cache page development stage to allow this to be bypassed with justification to the Reviewer. That way, those smartphone submittals would only show up once. The default should be "Sigle Find per cacher". Perhaps a message could be generated to the cacher whenever a duplicate log is submitted.

 

In the meantime, lets get the "delete log" page to include a comment to the cacher that explains why his Found It log has been deleted. Has been asked many time but never implemented.

[+Don_J]

Understand that there are some ancient reasons for logging multiple finds for the same cache. And, there may even be a few current reasons (I can't think of any). But with the advent of smartphones, the number of duplicate Found It logs has greatly increased. And it isn't readily apparent to the cacher that his phone double(or more) logged it. Perhaps it's time for a programming change.....

 

Identify all new caches as "Single Find Only". Then allow the CO to trip a switch during the cache page development stage to allow this to be bypassed with justification to the Reviewer. That way, those smartphone submittals would only show up once. The default should be "Sigle Find per cacher". Perhaps a message could be generated to the cacher whenever a duplicate log is submitted.

 

In the meantime, lets get the "delete log" page to include a comment to the cacher that explains why his Found It log has been deleted. Has been asked many time but never implemented.

 

Instead of spending time and effort on a programming change, why not spend it fixing the smartphone app?

 

Also, why would I need permission from a reviewer to allow someone to log my cache twice? I doubt that this is a job that they would want to undertake.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I'd like to see a warning if you're logging a duplicate Found log. I think it should still be allowed though.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

OK. Forget the "justification" issue. I do like the "warning" idea, let's just start with that idea. The cacher can then just confirm that they intend to log it a second time.

 

There have been many times the unintended double log has caused sometimes significant research by cachers to find the extra log. Especially new folks. Just look at the number of forum questions on the topic.

 

Just make it so the default is that a cache can only be logged once unless some positive action is performed to confirm it. A cache could be coded by the CO to allow it, as an idea.

 

Fixing the "app" infers there is a problem with the app. If multiple logging is allowed, then the app is working properly anyway. It just doesn't poll the database and issue a warning of a duplicate log. But, then we are back to the initial problem of no warnings of any kind.

[+tozainamboku]

 

Fixing the "app" infers there is a problem with the app. If multiple logging is allowed, then the app is working properly anyway. It just doesn't poll the database and issue a warning of a duplicate log. But, then we are back to the initial problem of no warnings of any kind.

I not sure how the API works but I suspect the API doesn't have the capability to warn. If you call it with a valid log it probably just adds the log to the cache. If you call with a something invalid (no such cache or one where the logs are lock) it might just fail silently or just put out a message that the the log failed.

 

If the app already knows that the user has found the cache, it can issue a warning when he user tries to send a "Found" log.

 

I have some sympathy from people who have accidentally pressed send twice or who find a cache a second time and forgot that they already logged it. But I really don't care how many cachers believe that you should only log a find once per cache. The fact is there are people who see the find log differently. There are cache owners who like to allow additional finds for one reason or another (perhaps even something reasonable from a geocaching standpoint). There are finders who see the log as a way of sharing their experiences caching and sometimes they find a cache a second time and to them the Found log is the appropriate way to share. I can't speak for Groundspeak but I can quote Jeremy Irish

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

I think there is no need for the website to enforce anyone's particular definition of a find. Perhaps there is a reason to provide tools that allow individuals maintain their personal records as seen fit. That might be a way to see which cache you have logged twice so you can fix what you see as an issue. I certainly don't see a need to to see what someone else has logged more than once or which cache owners are allowing multiple logs.

[+Don_J]

OK. Forget the "justification" issue. I do like the "warning" idea, let's just start with that idea. The cacher can then just confirm that they intend to log it a second time.

 

There have been many times the unintended double log has caused sometimes significant research by cachers to find the extra log. Especially new folks. Just look at the number of forum questions on the topic.

 

Just make it so the default is that a cache can only be logged once unless some positive action is performed to confirm it. A cache could be coded by the CO to allow it, as an idea.

 

Fixing the "app" infers there is a problem with the app. If multiple logging is allowed, then the app is working properly anyway. It just doesn't poll the database and issue a warning of a duplicate log. But, then we are back to the initial problem of no warnings of any kind.

 

I don't have a smartphone, but when I have contacted friends who have double logged, they tell me that the app indicated that the original log did not go through, (when in fact it had), so they send it again. I had a friend do this with over a 100 caches, which made him have to load each extra log on the website and delete it. Took him an entire evening.

 

The two feature requests, "You have already logged this as found on X date, do you wish to log it again?", and a system to list any caches that have been logged more than once, are no brainers.

 

When a cacher sees on their stats, 5001 founds on 5000 distinct caches, it's really ridiculous to ask him to weed through all of his finds, or use a third party app to simply find the problem so he can fix it.

 

Edit to add: The app may be fine, and the app that a particular user is using may not even be the official app. I think the problem is that the api is not returning the proper indicator to the app, and there is no real system to test for logging a find on a cache that already has a find log from the user. Adding that feature would probably correct the issue.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Don_J

[+BlueDeuce]

Make it like Travel bugs, you can log it as many times as you like but you only get one stat.

[+Don_J]

 

Fixing the "app" infers there is a problem with the app. If multiple logging is allowed, then the app is working properly anyway. It just doesn't poll the database and issue a warning of a duplicate log. But, then we are back to the initial problem of no warnings of any kind.

I not sure how the API works but I suspect the API doesn't have the capability to warn. If you call it with a valid log it probably just adds the log to the cache. If you call with a something invalid (no such cache or one where the logs are lock) it might just fail silently or just put out a message that the the log failed.

 

If the app already knows that the user has found the cache, it can issue a warning when he user tries to send a "Found" log.

 

I have some sympathy from people who have accidentally pressed send twice or who find a cache a second time and forgot that they already logged it. But I really don't care how many cachers believe that you should only log a find once per cache. The fact is there are people who see the find log differently. There are cache owners who like to allow additional finds for one reason or another (perhaps even something reasonable from a geocaching standpoint). There are finders who see the log as a way of sharing their experiences caching and sometimes they find a cache a second time and to them the Found log is the appropriate way to share. I can't speak for Groundspeak but I can quote Jeremy Irish

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

I think there is no need for the website to enforce anyone's particular definition of a find. Perhaps there is a reason to provide tools that allow individuals maintain their personal records as seen fit. That might be a way to see which cache you have logged twice so you can fix what you see as an issue. I certainly don't see a need to to see what someone else has logged more than once or which cache owners are allowing multiple logs.

 

I have a cache where a single cacher has logged a find four times, and I have absolutely no problem with that. This cacher would come to town once a year to visit his parents. He would hike the local trail and according to his logs, finding my cache each year was the highlight of his hike. It is the only cache he has ever found, and he has found it four times. I have no problem looking at it from his perspective and I don't think that it is a "problem" that needs to be fixed.

[+Olddffart]

As a cache owner, if a person actually visits my cache and signs the log, they can log their visit any way they want as long as the log is not inappropriate. I'm not going to tell them how they have to play the game or keep their score.

 

If a Newb double logged a find I might send an email to them and suggest how to change their log to a Note if that is what they want.

 

If you want to visit my cache, sign the log, and post a find a dozen times that's your prerogative. Happy Caching !!!

[+BlueDeuce]

It's been said that people can play the game as they want. If you log my cache 12 times and I delete 11 of the logs, who's game are we playing exactly?

[+Harry Dolphin]

I have nine duplicate finds, and I'm, proud of them! One moving cache, several locationless, and a few on a great archived mystery series. Used to be that objectives changed, and multiple finds were permitted. I would never log a second find on any other than those (well, there are some events that reuse the cache number...)

A warning would be a good idea. But do not prohibit it, or take away acceptable multiple finds.

[+edscott]

I agree that a simple warning to make sure the player intends to double log should be added to the site. Something like "You have already logged this find on 6/4/2013, do you mean to log it again? Then check the yes or no box.